Author Topic: Hornady XTP Fans (Read 3597 times)

skamaniac · « **on:** May 24, 2006, 12:57:11 AM »

Which do you prefer, .44 cal or .45 and why? Any difference in accuracy?

toytruck · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2006, 05:34:53 AM »

I haven't tried the .44 XTP's in my Encore mostly because I have tried .44 bullets before and they didn't shoot good for me. I have tried the .452/300 gr. XTP's with Harvester crushrib sabots and they shoot excellent in my rifle. Actually the most accurate bullet I have shot in the Encore todate with two pyrodex pellets. After the pellets are gone I will work up a load with Triple 7 2Fg later.

I am reading some stories of the 300 gr. XTP's not performing well in deer, but since they are very accurate for me I will give it a chance this fall to see for myself, if the deer cooperate. :-)

Bullseye · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2006, 07:03:03 AM »

44's for me because they are much easier to load. However I only shoot 80-100 grs of 777. If you are shooting 150 grains the 44's sabot might not hold up since it is not a high pressure sabot. Sometimes they fail with a lighter load and the bullet keyholes, but they shoot great and load easy in my Encore. By the way, they have always worked good on deer too.

sabotloader · « **Reply #3 on:** May 24, 2006, 12:22:48 PM »

skamaniac

45's for me I prefer being closer to bore size when possible and the 45's have performed beter on average. I know you are giving up some BC to shoot 45's but from a ML I just do not see the big difference. And with Speer Gold 45's I can get a BC of .232 vs the .199 for a Hornady XTP.

Another good round is a .458 in an MMP sabot. With this you are getting a real rifle bullet (45-70) doing 45/70 velocities or higher....

2cents

simonkenton · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2006, 12:14:37 PM »

I am a big XTP fan.
I use the .452. I shoot the Savage, and the .44 is not tight enough to be accurate in this rifle.
Accurate, good deer killer, cheap.

toytruck · « **Reply #5 on:** May 26, 2006, 02:37:30 AM »

Quote from: simonkenton

I am a big XTP fan.
I use the .452. I shoot the Savage, and the .44 is not tight enough to be accurate in this rifle.
Accurate, good deer killer, cheap.

What grain XTP are you shooting? Ever had any bullet failures or heard of this in the 300 gr. variety?

simonkenton · « **Reply #6 on:** May 26, 2006, 04:35:17 AM »

Bullet failure in the XTP is a subject of eternal discussion over on the Savage forum.
Some of the guys complain that they had "bullet failure" with the 250 XTP.
They say the bullet went to pieces.
Then, you ask them what happened to the deer. They say, "He went 10 yards and collapsed. But the bullet did not pass through, and I want that pass through for a good blood trail."
The guys who insist on a pass through shot are using the SST or other slugs.
I haven't heard of anyone who lost a deer when they made a well placed shot with the Savage and the 250 XTP.
Lots of guys are shooting the 300 XTP. It does hold together better than the 250.
I don't care about a pass through shot, I want to dump all that energy right into the deer. I don't need a blood trail when the deer collapses in its tracks.
I have a 250 XTP here that hit a deer head-on, right in the chest. The bullet went through one lung and stopped right under the skin on the far side. The recovered slug is expanded to over 1 inch diameter, a great mushroom. It weighs 172 grains, so some would call that bullet failure.
It knocked the deer for a back flip and the deer never budged.

flintlock · « **Reply #7 on:** May 26, 2006, 05:40:27 AM »

To find out which groups best you will have to shoot them....They will all work...There is also an XTP Mag that holds together better....If you shoot hotter loads, they can fragment, once you get to the hotter charges...If you are shooting up to 100 grains the straight XTP in either will work...If you might have a shot out to 150-175 yards, you might want to look at the Hornady SSTs, as they have a better bc....

The .430 240 gr has killed a bunch of deer....its a classic, and has been used for years....one bullet that intriges me is the 300gr .430...it has a bc of .245...Whereas the 240 .430 is .205 and the 250 .452 is 146 and the .300 .452, the 250 SST is .210....so the 300gr .430 should be a flat shooter....

I have tried them all in my Knight, as mentioned the .430s with the green sabot don't always do well with the higher charges....In my Knight the .452s don't do well either....with any powder charges....But the .250 SSTs (with the thinner MMP sabots) will shoot one ragged hole at 100 yards...I have killed 7-8 deer with this bullet and 90 grs of Pyrodex PS....I get full penetration with high shoulder shots....I would like to use the XTPs because I believe the hollow point would transfer more energy, as Simon mentions....But I have elected to go with the SSTs, because of accuracy...
btw...I sight in 2 1/2 inches high at 100 yards...I'm 2 1/2 low at 150...last year I killed a nice 8 pointer at 143 yards....he dropped at the shot...So maybe I'm shooting the best bullet for my hunting conditions...

toytruck · « **Reply #8 on:** May 26, 2006, 06:00:58 AM »

Thanks guys, thats what I thought all along. I am however, a fan of two holes are better than one, pass through performance. It all boils down to shot placement in the long run. If the animal shot drops upon impact that is great, but if it doesn't then you are in for a tracking job that may turn out bad, depending on the situation of course.

Just my opinion, I have had both situations in 40 years of hunting and prefer the quick, humane kills everytime, not to mention its alot easier and shorter drags.

skamaniac · « **Reply #9 on:** May 28, 2006, 02:50:29 AM »

I've been shooting both the .44 & .45 cal out of my Encore in the 240&250 grainers and can't get a group that i like. The SST/shockwaves will drive tacks in 200 and 250 grain offerings. I was hoping to get the XTPs to shoot because they are much cheaper bought in bulk and i know a lot of guys like the way they perform. I've only killed one deer with the SSTs so far, a doe at 110 yds and she never took a step, slightly high behind the shoulder with a complete pass through.

simonkenton · « **Reply #10 on:** May 28, 2006, 05:06:42 AM »

Speaking of "hotter" loads, bear in mind that us Savage boys are driving that 250 XTP at 2,300 fps. Some of the guys are going even faster than that.
Still, the 250 XTP is considered a classic bullet for the Savage and is the favorite bullet for many Savage deer hunters. It is also one of the most consistently accurate bullets for the Savage. I also like that it can be bought cheaply in bulk.
If you are a guy who wants the pass through shot, I understand where you are coming from, but you better go to another slug.

redpep · « **Reply #11 on:** May 28, 2006, 10:49:16 AM »

I've shot the 44 XTP (.430) 300 gr with a green mmp hph sabot, 85 grns of T-7 out of a Knight Elite, 100 yards 1 1/2" groups.
My son shot the same gun and load and can duplicate the accuracy.

Two Bears · « **Reply #12 on:** June 27, 2006, 06:26:58 AM »

Quote from: skamaniac

Which do you prefer, .44 cal or .45 and why? Any difference in accuracy?

This is the only XTP bullet that I have recovered ( I have taken lots of deer with this bullet)
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/album_pic.php?pic_id=1108

It is the mag XTP and it mushrumed very well and was shot with 85 grains of BM3

Biff Mayhem · « **Reply #13 on:** July 01, 2006, 06:40:42 PM »

For deer, the 300 gr /.452 in 45/50 with the black HPH24 or Harvester sabots is hard to best. Those Savage boys should not be using a pistol bullet in those smokelss rifles. The XTP was never designed to take that kind of punnishment.

kudzu · « **Reply #14 on:** July 03, 2006, 07:18:44 AM »

At normall ML speeds the XTP's have worked great for me. Still shoot them in my thunderhawk(or a least my son does). Tried them in the savage with less great results. One being as said before this is a pistol bullet and not designed for 2400-2700 fps. From 1800-2100 fps is a good range for the 250xtp. You could go with the xtp mag bullets with greater speeds, however distances are not in your favor for this bulllet with it's not so great BC will die quickly and not perform well when speeds are reduced. I had problems with the 250sst at the higher speeds also. I have settled on the 300sst in my savage with 69grH4198. this is around 2450 +- fps and are getting great performance accuracy wise and is nasty on whitetails. I myself am a pass thru guy. reason being some of the places I hunt if the deer runs 15-20 yrds with no blood trail you may not find it due to the thick underbrush. Of the 5 wt I shot last season with the 300sst all were recoved, 3 where they stood and 2 with less than 10 yards of travel. All but one was a pass-thru and ranged from 100 to 175 yards.

gt2003 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 16, 2006, 05:50:22 PM »

I shot the 300 grain XTP's out of my knight wolverine with 90 grains pyrodex RS. Extremely accurate but I don't know if they passed through deer without expanding or what. But, I lost 3 deer with them and swore if I lost another deer while ML'ing I'd quit. I was literally crawling on hands and knees looking for blood. I coud find a few drops the 1st thirtly yds or so, then nothing. I was SOOOO irritated. I switched to 80 grains of 777 powder and a 220 grain, all lead, precision rifle dead center bullet and I can't believe the difference. All of my shots for both bullets have been 50 yds or less. Here is a link to the 2 precision rifle bullets I've recovered from deer. Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/gt2003/precisionrifle220graindeadcenters.jpg
Enjoy, Greg

msdh · « **Reply #16 on:** August 18, 2006, 05:12:09 PM »

Ive killed about 25 deer with 300 grain XTPs at ranges from 10 to 160 yards. With charges between 90 and 110 grains Black Powder , 777, and pyrodex. Only recovered 2 bullets and they expanded nicely. Used the .452 bullet about 90% of the time. Never had a problem with a blood trail either. They were plain and easy to see. Exit wounds were always twice the bullet size at least. Most deer were down inside 60 yards or less. Any lung or heart shot deer isnt going to go much more than a hundred yards. Ive shot deer with roundball and conicals too and all lead sabots and XTPs are my go to every time. They have probaly killed more deer in the USA thaan all other saboted projectiles combined.

gt2003 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 21, 2006, 04:14:25 PM »

My guess is you killed 21 or 22 then recovered the 3 or 4 I lost. Seriously though, glad they work well for you. I had to switch to get performance. Shoot what works. We all like different things. Good luck, Greg

msdh · « **Reply #18 on:** August 22, 2006, 02:39:28 PM »

Well , you guessed wrong. I recovered all those deer in short order. That is sort of like calling me a liar. I did lose a large deer with an XTP and it was my fault Im sure. How do I know that? Because I followed a blood trail for more than 400 yards until it petered out. I know no lung or heart shot deer could travel that far, period. Ive hunted deer for a long time and Ive hit and lost deer with the bow, the handgun, shotgun and roundball gun. The common denominator to those losses were marginal hits on my part. Are some projectiles better suited? Sure they are. 300 grain XTPS hold together when shoulders are hit even at 100 yards. People dont want to admit it was probably their shooting that caused lost deer so they balme their equipment. Good luck

gt2003 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 22, 2006, 04:46:13 PM »

Relax, i was kidding. Sorry to offend. Greg

msdh · « **Reply #20 on:** August 22, 2006, 05:52:45 PM »

I'm sorry, I overreacted

Maryland Hunter · « **Reply #21 on:** October 23, 2006, 02:26:12 PM »

Been shooting the XTP 300 grain in 44's for 10 years now. ALL have performed great on deer, most dropping in their tracks. Golf ball sized exit wounds, great accuracy. I have used the 45's with similar results, but much harder to load a second shot. Not impossible, just harder. I originally set up the gun (Knight Wolverine) using the .44 240's, but switched to the 300's for the extra energy. They shoot just as well in my American Knight too. Several friends are shooting the 240's with great results as well.

MH

docux · « **Reply #22 on:** October 26, 2006, 01:47:00 PM »

Hey skamaniac you mention buying XTP's in bulk, where can you buy them that way? I have looked around & can't seem to find any in bulk

simonkenton · « **Reply #23 on:** October 27, 2006, 01:17:53 AM »

Cabelas sells them in bulk.
I also have found them in bulk at a gun store.

Two Bears · « **Reply #24 on:** October 28, 2006, 02:30:21 AM »

Quote from: simonkenton on October 27, 2006, 01:17:53 AM

Cabelas sells them in bulk.
I also have found them in bulk at a gun store.

No they don't, I worked there for a number of years and know for sure that they do not sell Hornady XTP in bulk, At least not larger than 100 bullets per box on the smaller bullets and 50 per box on the .300 gr and up.They do sell bulk bullets that look like the XTPbut are made from someone else and I think they are by Rainier.

simonkenton · « **Reply #25 on:** October 28, 2006, 09:10:59 AM »

A box of 100 IS a bulk purchase.

Two Bears · « **Reply #26 on:** October 30, 2006, 08:46:11 AM »

500 is bulk

1 box of 50 or 100 depending on the grain the bullet is , well is just a box of bullets.

simonkenton · « **Reply #27 on:** October 30, 2006, 01:39:15 PM »

Compared to buying a pretty little plastic box of twenty with sabots for $10, I would say that buying a box of 100 for $14 is a bulk purchase. Then you can buy the sabots for 7 cents apiece, that is 21 cents per shot.

Two Bears · « **Reply #28 on:** October 30, 2006, 08:50:00 PM »

Quote from: simonkenton on October 30, 2006, 01:39:15 PM

Compared to buying a pretty little plastic box of twenty with sabots for $10, I would say that buying a box of 100 for $14 is a bulk purchase. Then you can buy the sabots for 7 cents apiece, that is 21 cents per shot.

Nope....The $10.00 pack of 15-20 bullets and sabots is a RIP OFF and the industry is raping you / us. Price gouging comes to mind too, but as long as idiots keep paying those very high prices I guess they can sell them for what ever they want.
And 50-100 box of bullets is just a box of bullets that cost 9.99 (normal)

Sorry for the rant but I guess I am sick of the "High prices" anymore, and most of the high costs are direct from marketing (GREED) not because of material costs and it does not sit well with me.

simonkenton · « **Reply #29 on:** October 31, 2006, 02:25:04 AM »

You are right, 50 cents a pop, with a cute little plastic box, is a rip off. But what are you gonna do, if you want the SST for example.
If you got 100 guys to get together and go on a buyer's strike, Hornady would say, f*** off.
And, you couldn't get 100 guys together in the first place.
I will tell you what is worse, PRbullets.
I know they give good results. I went over to that web site, I thought I should send those millionares $20 just for the "priveledge" of viewing the site. Their cheap bullets were $1 each, some of their bullets were $1.25 or more. This for a solid lead slug, no sabot.
Give me a break! I know they are good bullets, but they are not that good.
Cost to manufacture, probably 2 cents each.
If my vision hadn't gotten bad to where I need a scope, I would just be hunting with my beautiful home made Tennessee Mountain Rifle and patched round balls. Eight cents per ball, plus patch.
Never had a problem with killing a deer with a round ball.