Author Topic: 44 Mag Loading Ideas (Read 1198 times)

Feldhege · « **on:** May 24, 2006, 05:03:36 AM »

Hello guys,
So I know nothing about reloading. I have a friend who does it alot and has volunteered to help me start. I bought all the components and he has the equipment. My question is:

Guns:
44 mag Dan Wesson with 8 Inch Barrel
Marlin 1894SS in 44 mag with 20" barrel.

Components:
Hogden H110 Powder
Magtech 240 gr JSP in .429 dia
CCI 350 Primers
My Factory Winchester Brass (once fired)

I am looking at two possibilities. 1) seperate Pistol and Rifle loads or 2) a common load. I would like some accuracy but mostly it is for target practice for my Fall Hog Hunting. I know every gun shoots different but I was looking for a place to start. According to the label on the Powder, 20.5 gr is max load. So any recommendations?

Robb Feldhege

Reed1911 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2006, 06:37:36 AM »

Robb,

You will likely find that while your most accurate loads in the pistol are fine in the rifle, going slightly heavier will increase the accuracy in the rifle. They tend to like them a little hotter than the pistols do.
H110 is a very good powder for the .44 Mag.
Just work your loads up slowly from the published figures and don't jump the powder increase too fast, H110 goes from great to ka-boom real fast at the top-end loads.

Feldhege · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2006, 07:39:00 AM »

Thanks for the tips. I'm just glad I have someone helping me who knows what they are doing. Just looking for some loads that others have found useful.

I just took a look at your page. Seems like some good pricing. Now when are you going to do reloading on 44 MAG.

I also shoot 45 acp in idpa matches so maybe I will check out your stuff once I get some brass together.

Robb

Reed1911 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 24, 2006, 09:27:27 AM »

We re-load for it now, no problem.
Point of note, if we load it new, we will re-load, and even some that we do not load new we re-load for. Low volume on a lot of cartridges so there is no reason to make a special spot for them on the website.

PaulS · « **Reply #4 on:** May 26, 2006, 06:59:13 PM »

Quote from: Feldhege

Hello guys,
So I know nothing about reloading. I have a friend who does it alot and has volunteered to help me start. I bought all the components and he has the equipment. My question is:

Guns:
44 mag Dan Wesson with 8 Inch Barrel
Marlin 1894SS in 44 mag with 20" barrel.

Components:
Hogden H110 Powder
Magtech 240 gr JSP in .429 dia
CCI 350 Primers
My Factory Winchester Brass (once fired)

I am looking at two possibilities. 1) seperate Pistol and Rifle loads or 2) a common load. I would like some accuracy but mostly it is for target practice for my Fall Hog Hunting. I know every gun shoots different but I was looking for a place to start. According to the label on the Powder, 20.5 gr is max load. So any recommendations?

Robb Feldhege

Robb,

Look the load up in your (or his) manuals. All of my manuals agree that the top load for a 240 JSP in the 44 magnum is 24.0 grains of H110.
20.5 is below what most recommend for a starting load. (23.2) most of the books recomment 3% drop as a starting load. It has been my experience that you can drop it a lot further than 3% without running into trouble with ignition but H110 likes to be about 97% of max to shoot accurately. I see nothing wrong with starting at 20.5 and working up to find the rifle's most accurate load. That is where you need the most accurate loads is in your rifle. Unless you are very good with your pistol you may never notice any accuracy shortcomings in your revolver. Look for accuracy in the rifle and you will be fine.

ricciardelli · « **Reply #5 on:** May 26, 2006, 07:14:00 PM »

Rifle:
H-110 From 18.0 grains to 26.1 grains
CCI-350 Primer

Handgun:
H-110 From 19.3 grains to 25.9 grains
CCI-350 Primer

I use:
H-110 - 25.8 grains for both
CCI-350 Primer

In both my Ruger Super Blackhawk and my original Ruger Carbine. Velocities are 1607 FPS and 1919 FPS @ 15' from the muzzle.

As for accuracy, the Super Blackhawk will put 6 into a 1-gallon milk jug at 110 yards. The carbine will put 5 in 1-1/4" at 50 yards.

PaulS · « **Reply #6 on:** May 26, 2006, 07:39:37 PM »

Steve,

What manual do your loads come from?

I suspect that these are loads you have worked up in your guns.
If you are going to list loads please list your sources and / or a disclaimer that the loads you are recommending may exceed SAAMI maximum pressures and should be checked against reliable sources.

5 of my 9 manuals all list 23.8 to 24.2 as maximum load with a 240 grain jacketed bullet and 3 of those five list it at 24.0 as the maximum load.
Hodgdon, Lyman, Sierra, Speer, Hornady

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #7 on:** May 26, 2006, 08:40:17 PM »

The latest issue of Handloader magazine has an article on reloading for the .44 mag.

ricciardelli · « **Reply #8 on:** May 27, 2006, 04:40:43 AM »

Quote from: PaulS

Steve,

What manual do your loads come from?

I suspect that these are loads you have worked up in your guns.
If you are going to list loads please list your sources and / or a disclaimer that the loads you are recommending may exceed SAAMI maximum pressures and should be checked against reliable sources.

5 of my 9 manuals all list 23.8 to 24.2 as maximum load with a 240 grain jacketed bullet and 3 of those five list it at 24.0 as the maximum load.
Hodgdon, Lyman, Sierra, Speer, Hornady

I have been listing my loads here for over 4 years, and have never had to qualify or justify them. It has been understood that all loads I list are NOT from any manual but from my personal experience.

As the disclaimer states on my reloading data pages:

"
Number One:

The information and data contained on the reloading pages is for informational purposes only. I do NOT assume, nor do I accept ANY responsibility, implied or expressed, for the accuracy of the material posted, nor do I assume or accept ANY liability or responsibility, implied or expressed, of the results you will obtain by using any of the data posted on these pages.

I have no control over variations in components, reloading tools or your procedures. YOU are solely responsible for EVERYTHING that may occur using this data.

Number Two:

The information listed for MAXIMUM loads may be safe only in modern firearms of current manufacture and in excellent condition! The age and condition of YOUR firearm is the determining factor! NEVER, EVER, START WITH ANY OF THE MAXIMUM LOADS!!!

Number Three:

Always start out with the lightest powder load listed and work up GRADUALLY until signs of case failure or excessive pressure become evident! Or until the level of performance you desire is reached. WHICHEVER COMES FIRST!!

Number Four:

The data contained herein is NOT bounded by SAAMI limitations! Because of this fact, be ABSOLUTELY sure you understand numbers one, two and three above!!

The highlighted powder in the selection area is NOT sacred, truth, fact nor absolute. It is the powder and primer combination I chose as best when I was reloading that caliber, with that bullet. It is based on three simple facts:

1) A "gut feeling";
2) Almost 50 years of experience;
3) They worked just fine in the firearm I was testing.

Number Five:

The data contained here is for copper-jacketed with lead-core bullets. It can be used with lead bullets and solid bullets (but YOU must take into consideration the composition and construction of the bullet). It is not designed to be used with coated bullets of any type. If you are intent on using coated bullets, buy yourself the reloading manual published by the bullet manufacturer!"

And, on a personal level, I do not appreciate the public chastisement...

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #9 on:** May 27, 2006, 07:08:59 AM »

For a bullet weighing 240 gr. or more I've never seen a load (in print) of more than 25 gr. of H110. I'm sure there are handguns out there that can handle it (my Anaconda for one) but that's a LOT of recoil and not for the novice handgunner. A load of 25.8 gr. under a 240+ gr. bullet would be about all I'd ever want to try and probably about one round would satisfy my curiosity!! I'm no newcomer to this business of hot loads, my FA 454 Casull has had some absolute screamers go through its barrel. The older I get the more I think along the lines of "moderation in all things". (That's just my two cents worth and does not constitute a criticism of anybody)

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #10 on:** May 27, 2006, 07:18:41 AM »

I just went over to Handloader.com and some guy there (rugerman33) has posted a load of 26.5 gr. of H110 under a 240 gr. XTP and describes it as a "near maximum" load! To each his own I guess but my advice to newcomers is to really get some experience under your belts before getting into the upper range of loads for ANY caliber.

ricciardelli · « **Reply #11 on:** May 27, 2006, 08:05:11 AM »

I just did a quick review of some of my manuals, and here's what I found:

Sierra #2 - 25.8 grains
Hornady #3 - 25.0 grains
Hornady #4 - 25.0 grains
Hornady #5 - 26.1 grains
Swift #1 - 25.0 grains

Now, it appears that these manufacturer's manuals stick extremely close to the SAAMI "specs", since they are SAAMI.

I even have a couple of manuals that state that 22.0 grains is the "max" load.

So tell me, if SAAMI is so sacred, how come "max" loads have a range of 4.1 grains?

I openly state that my loads DO NOT adhere to the SAAMI specs, and that, as I stated above, "The information listed for MAXIMUM loads may be safe only in modern firearms of current manufacture and in excellent condition! The age and condition of YOUR firearm is the determining factor! NEVER, EVER, START WITH ANY OF THE MAXIMUM LOADS!!! The data contained herein is NOT bounded by SAAMI limitations!"

PaulS · « **Reply #12 on:** May 27, 2006, 10:39:05 PM »

Steve,

MY Sierra #2 list a maximum load of 24.2 grains of H110 with 240 grain JHC bullet and a maximum of 25.4 with a 220 grain jacketed match and 25.3 grains of H110 with a 210 grain JHC bullet.

There must be something different in our two #2 manuals from Sierra.
The Swift manual is for their bullets and they can safely use more powder just like the X bullets from Barnes - you can't use their data with other bullets.

As for the public chastizement - not intended
However you listed your loads to someone who openly identified himself as a newbee - with no experience and you did not qualify them as anything but accurate and implied safe. In his gun they might be dangerous - and I just wanted to make sure that he understood that. When you post loads to experienced shooters I don't have a problem - they know better but a newbee deserves to be alerted to the posible overload conditions of your pet loads - either by you or by someone else. It is common courtesy.

I am sorry that I hurt your feelings but if it keeps somebody from losing important body parts it is worth it - don't you agree?

ricciardelli · « **Reply #13 on:** May 28, 2006, 03:46:54 AM »

Sierra #2, dated 1985, page 290:

H-110 - 18.0 to 25.8 grains with 240
H-110 - 18.8 to 29.9 grains with 180

As for "newbies"...evey manual and every article I have read or written, and every bit of advice I have heard or given always states to start out low and work-up.

IF a newbie doesn't feel he should heed this advce, that is his problem! Stupidity is not against the law. Although it should be...

PaulS · « **Reply #14 on:** May 29, 2006, 01:33:30 AM »

Quote from: ricciardelli

Sierra #2, dated 1985, page 290:

H-110 - 18.0 to 25.8 grains with 240
H-110 - 18.8 to 29.9 grains with 180

As for "newbies"...evey manual and every article I have read or written, and every bit of advice I have heard or given always states to start out low and work-up.

IF a newbie doesn't feel he should heed this advce, that is his problem! Stupidity is not against the law. Although it should be...

Steve,

You left out the statement that this is information worked up for rifles only and you left out the warning on page 289 that states; "DO NOT use these data for pistol loads, since some of them would be dangerous overloads."
Sierra surpassed the SAAMI pressures in the knowledge that the rifles they were working with could withstand the extra pressures.
There are other cautions about using these loads in some rifles as they were worked up specifically for the Marlin model 336.

If you were using the data from the Pistol Volume you would find the loads that I quoted on page 73.
I guess now you know why maximum loads vary by 4.1 grains.
By the way SAAMI is an independant organization and the cartridge manufacturers are just "members". ANSI and SAAMI have a working relationship while the members follow recommendations on a voluntary basis - and as you can see they sometimes don't.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #15 on:** May 29, 2006, 06:33:20 PM »

Feldhege -

When I started reloading for th e.44 Mag back in the early 80's I mde an intention decision that I would NEVER load hotter rounds for my Browning B92 carbine than I could load in a revolver. It was some years before I actually got a .44 Mag handgun, but I ahve one now, a Ruger Super Redhawk.

I use one load for both - 240g Speer JSP's, CCI 350 primers and 24.0g H110. Velocity is 1880fps in the 20" Browning and 1519fps in the 17-1/2" Ruger S.R.

I also shoot 300g Speer UCSP's over 20.0g H110 for 1531fps and 1213fps in the Browning and Ruger, respectively.

Here's what my manuals say is MAXIMUM for 240g JSP's:

Nosler 5th: 23.8g H110 (rifle and pistol)
Speer #12: 24.0g H110 (rifle and pistol)
Hornady 5th: 24.8g H110 (rifle and pistol)
Hodgdon Annual Manual 2004: 24.0g H110 (rifle and pistol)

Lyman 48th: 24.5g H110 (rifle)
Lyman 48th: 19.5g H110 (pistol)