Remington Bronze Point

[Cheesehead]

I like buying bulk quantities or Remington bullets from Midway. I am considering 30 caliber, 150 grain Bronze Points for my 308 Win. I did use 100 mostly at the range with good accuracy results. I like the idea of the protected point. I do not know how they perform on game and the original reason for the design. Anybody have any hunting experience with these in any caliber or weight. Midway sells them for 157 bucks a thousand.

Cheese

[Siskiyou]

I still have some bronze points laying around.  The big advantage is that they retain their velocity for long range shooting.

Back in the 50's and 60's our family used them extensively in the .300 Savage and .270 Win. The family killed a fair number of bucks every year.  I think the best performance was in the .300 Savage 150 grain.  Normally a shot into the chest cavity caused massive damage and the deer came to a fast stop.

A shot with the .270, 130 grain behind the shoulder of a deer within 100 yards normally caused major damage to the heart, lungs, and part if not all of the liver.  The same shot beyond 100 yards caused a little less damage.  Normally we did not recover an intact bullet.

When I bought Bronze pts. for reloading they cost a little more then the CorLock.  I switched to the CorLock because it gave better penetration.  I still have a few Bt. Pts. in my loading box, but I do not feel they are the best bullet around.  I no longer consider them an option deer.  I might consider them for antelope at 300 yards because they shot flatter at long distance, and antelope are not large.

[Cheesehead]

Siskiyou

Thanks for the info. I realize the bronze point bullets go back many years. They may be one of the original premium bullets. I did use them for the 2005 deer season and took one deer with one close range shot in the neck just below the head. Any bullet would have worked for this shot. What I liked was the protected point and are relatively inexpensive and the some what historic nature of this bullet. Deer hunting in NW Wisconsin involves reloading your gun many times with same bullets sometimes. Some bullets receive massive tip damage from this. The bronze point is very durable and handles this punishment, even better than ballistic tip noslers. I loaded one bronze point round at least 5 times with no noticeable damage. The rifle I use is a Springfield M1A. It slams the rounds into the chamber and damages other bullets. You say you will no longer consider them an option for deer. What is your reason for that?  I have used Remington corelokt bullets otherwise and like them but they get beat up after several rechamberings. Its all about the quest for the perfect hunting bullet, a durable bullet.


Cheese

[Siskiyou]

The Bronze Pt.  holds up great from loading and reloading your firearm.  I think it is the greatest sporting bullet around for protecting the tip.  I have deformed the tip of Nosler PT bullets from dropping a shell out in the woods, and started a old fashion Silvertip expanding by droppping it.

I prefer bullets that will fully penetrate a deer on 95% of my shots.  I hone my tracking skills on deer shot behind the shoulder with 130 grain bronze points.  I have had deer with their heart blown apart, their lungs a mess, still go some distance in heavy cover on me after being shot with a bronze point.  I hunt a lot of steep ground.  When they die on their feet they flop over and slide a few hundred feet to the bottom of the draw or hang up at the base of a tree.  It makes for tough tracking.

I have found that the 150 grain .270 bullet and the 165 grain .30 Ca. bullet will normally fully penetrate a deer when shot behind the shoulder.  Both of them will create a 1.5 to 2.0 exit hole.  Alot of blood and crude pours out that big hole, plus the entrance hole adds to the sign.  By going up in bullet wieght  in a standard bullet I get what I want.  The entrance hole on a real fat deer does not bleed much from a small caliber hole.

Most of the time I am hunting on ground not covered with snow, so any advantage I can get I take.

I agree with you thoughts on the bronze pt. being an idea damage free bullet.  The Midway price per thousand is great.  The price of bullets are going to jump big time in June.  Suggest you order as soon as possible.

[Slamfire]

They  were to be a rapidly expanding bullet for use on light deer, etc., as opposed to the Corelokt, which was for heavier game with controlled expansion. They expanded too fast for the really high velocity rifles say .270 on up, but were a good match for the .300 Savage, .30-40, .250-3000 and .257 Roberts.  

[steve4102]

At what velocities will the Bronze Pt perform?  Is it is a rapidly expanding bullet that will expand at lower velocities?  If so, then the 150gr Bronze PT .308 might work well as a Whitetail deer load in the 7.62x39, or no?

[Siskiyou]

I have not seen the .308, 180 grain bronze pt. listed as an item for reloaders of late.  You might get it as a special order item.  But consider it as a option.  It should be very effective when loaded to a velocity around 2600 fps.  It should give you good expansion and penetration.

A few years back I had a box of 180 grain bronze pts. given to me.  I passed them to a friend because I had let my 06 go to the son-in-law.  I feel it is a little to much bullet for my .300 Savage which I load to put bullets on target out to 300 yards.  And at the sametime I had stocked the son-in-law and I up with 165 grain bullets.  

I use to chase around a lot to buy bronze point bullets.  So it might take some looking our a couple of calls.  The suppliers may not list them but are able to get them for you.

[PaulS]

At what velocities will the Bronze Pt perform?  Is it is a rapidly expanding bullet that will expand at lower velocities?  If so, then the 150gr Bronze PT .308 might work well as a Whitetail deer load in the 7.62x39, or no?

Steve,

in the 7.62 x 39 a 150 grain bullet will have less velocity than a bullet of the same weight out of a 30-30 - probably between 1900 and 2000 fps. It would be an ok round for deer to 75 yards or so but I doubt that you would see much expansion as that is the bottom limit (or near it above or below the bottom limit) for the expansion of that particular bullet. In a 30-30 it would be slightly more likely to expand as you would gain about 200 fps with a 150 grain bullet. It is a controlled expansion bullet not a rapid expansion bullet but at velocities that would be near 400 yards from a 30-06 (2200 or sofps). You could always contact the manufacturer and see what they say - they are the experts and they want to keep their customers happy so they are likely to give you the right information. I have never tested that bullet in my fackler box so I have nothing to compare it to. It might be an interesting test to perform but I am very short on time right now. I am teaching two overlapping classes for the church and working with projects for two Non-profit groups with events coming up in September and both need a lot of attention for fundraisers and such. (I could put in a plug for contributions but I will resist it this time. I may need to do that as the closing dates get closer - anyone need a $200 tax deduction?  :wink:

[steve4102]

Steve,

in the 7.62 x 39 a 150 grain bullet will have less velocity than a bullet of the same weight out of a 30-30 - probably between 1900 and 2000 fps. It would be an ok round for deer to 75 yards or so but I doubt that you would see much expansion as that is the bottom limit (or near it above or below the bottom limit) for the expansion of that particular bullet.

  Thanks Paul,   I have loaded several 150gr bullets for my 7.62x39.  At 15ft from the muzzle I get an avg velocity of 2150fps with the Sierra 150gr .308 Pro Hunter and the Speer 150gr .308 RN.  I have not loaded any of the Rem Bronze PTs but, I think the velocities would be close.  With the Sierra 150's, 2150fps  muzzle velocity gets me about 1870fps at 150 yards.  According to Sierra this will work but, just barely.  
  This is what Sierra had to say about the 150 Pro Hunter #2130.

As for the 150 grain ProHunter it is designed to be used it larger cases such as the 30-06 as a short to medium range bullet.  Medium range is around 500 yards so if you start this bullet at say 3000 fps it is only going 1780 fps at 500 yards but it will be fatal.  If it is started at 2100 fps it will still be going 1775 fps at 150 yards and again it will be fatal with decent placement.  I admit that the bullet won't blow up at this modest velocity but it will open up some and that will be enough.

  I was hoping I could find a bullet in the 150gr class that would expand properly at 2150fps at the muzzle.  Any Ideas???

[gwindrider1]

A Ballistic Tip should expand reliably at your 2150 fps. muzzle velocity.  They will expand violently if pushed fast however.

[Siskiyou]

A good bullet is the Speer Mag-tip.  It is designed to expand at low velocities but has a heavy shank to control or stop expansion.  I do not know if it will feed good in an autoloader.  The Mag-Tip is protected to prevent damage.  To me they look similar to the Remington pointed C-L.

Remington says the bronze point is designed for rapid expansion at a controlled rate.  I have taken a number of deer with it and never had a bronze pt. exit a deer.  That is with the .270 Winchester.  Dad and a brother had success using the 150 grain bronze point in factory ammunition.  At one time it was available in .300 Savage.  They had success with the bullet, most of their kills were from 25 yards out to 150 yards.  I do not recall finding an intact mushroom bullet in their deer.  

The bronze point is the most explosive bullet I have used on deer.  I have loaded and fired close to 400 of them in the .270 Winchester.  Many of them were used on rock chucks and jack rabbits.  I was amazed the first time I shot a rock chuck with one.  I lost sight of the rock chuck in my scope.  My partner told me to look at the big RED spot of the lava rocks.  The bronze point had turned the rock chuck into a red spray on the rocks.

Express Bronze Point Tipped Bullet
A superb choice for long-range medium game. The high ballistic coefficient of the bronze insert produces a flat trajectory and maintains high velocity and energy at extreme ranges. Yet on impact, the tip is driven backward to create rapid expansion that is controlled to optimum limits by the pre-grooved jacket, even on thin-skinned game. The tip also protects the bullet nose from being deformed by recoil while in the magazine.*

To give you and idea regarding .300 Sav. velocity I fired a number of old .300 Sav. rounds across my Chrony.  These were old Remington C-L, 150 grain bullets.  The average velocity was 2458 fps.  My point is that the 150 grain bronze point likely produced the same velocity.  It worked on deer.   This was out of a 24 inch barrel.  I am sure that little brothers' M99 Savage with a 20-inch barrel produced much slow velocity.  The bucks never new the difference.  Most likely "true" .308 and .300 Sav velocities are withing a couple of hundred feet of each other.  A short barrel .308 might produce the same velocity as a long barrel .300 Sav.  In a recent phone conversation little brother(big) said he was boxing up a bunch of .300 Savage rounds, brass, and .308 bullets for me.  If there are factory bronze pts., and other factory bullets I have not fired across the Chrony I will take advantage of the oppertunity.

*Remington.com

[PaulS]

Steve,

Any bullet that is recommended for the 30-30 or 30 Herrett should work in your situation. Sierra recommends that bullets of 150 grains and higher do not expand reliably at pistol and Contender velocities ( which are approximately what you are getting. As you stated you are on the edge of your performance velocity. If you want a bullet that will expand at low velocities you might consider going to lighter bullets that are designed to expand rapidly at "normal" rifle velocities.
the Speer 130 grain HP #2005 is one that should work very well for you.
This 130 grain bullet has virtually the same ballistic coefficient as the 150 grain Speer listed below.
If you simply must have a 150 grain bullet here are two that are made for the 30-30 velocities:
Hornady 150 grain RN #3035
Speer's 150 grain flat point #2011

I wish I could be of more help - I just don't know of many bullets designed to operate at those low velocities. You may try Barnes Bullets (I don't believe I am saying that) they have a new generation of all copper bullets that produce less barrel pressure and higher speeds.  They are supposed to expand well at notably lower velocity while staying together at very high velocity. There are other premium bullets especially the copper bullets that are made for "pistol velocities" that may work well for you. My problem with Barnes was copper fouling and that was two generations ago - their newer bullets are supposed to have the problem solved. They are premium bullets and carry a premium price tag but for hunting it is not too high a price to pay for your deer. Anyway, there are more than one avenue to explore. Have fun with it!