Author Topic: Eratic ignition in 500 S&W Handi (Read 1057 times)

rk3006 · « **on:** May 29, 2006, 06:26:32 AM »

:? I have fired around 60 rds. of handloads in my 500 S&W Handi rifle without any problems untill now. The load I use is 43 grs. H110 with a 300 gr. Speer H.P. in starline brass and a CCI 200 large rifle primer. My last trip to the range I had two hangfires and several slow ignitions, somthing like a( Pht. Boom ) three or four of these. My question is should I be using large rifle magnum primers? Or are these too much??? The rest of my rounds fired ok. Anybody have a clue what is going on or what I am possibly doing wrong. I also individually weigh each round so I know I didn't screw up on the charge. Thanks

jerkface11 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 29, 2006, 07:13:19 AM »

CCI primers are probably the problem there. They can be really hard. Switch to some winchesters and see if that fixes it.

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** May 29, 2006, 08:05:30 AM »

Lots of people say to use a magnum primer with any ball type powder. A magnum primer will not for sure raise the pressures, depends on the amount of powder in the case and some other things, your slow ignition probably had some very high pressures associated with it. How full of a case do you get with that load? Larry

rk3006 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 29, 2006, 08:40:06 AM »

I get about 3/4 case full, I also noticed I get a lot of smoke blackining on the cases I think this indicates the case is not sealing the chamber. My cases extract easy almose falling out if they wern't held by the eatractor. So do you think I should use magnum primers?

jerkface11 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 29, 2006, 10:59:05 AM »

Are you putting a heavy enough crimp on them?

rk3006 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 29, 2006, 11:12:44 AM »

I am putting a moderate crimp on them as they are for a single shot. The next time I go to the range I will use WLP primers and see how they do. You may be right about the CCI primers but in the 40 or so rounds I shot I didn't have any problems. I'll see how WLP does. Thanks

jerkface11 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 29, 2006, 12:31:33 PM »

If you're using a 300 grain bullet and H-110 you should go with a heavy crimp. That's probably a big part of your ignition problem. H-110 and 296 don't burn well if you can't get the pressure up.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** May 29, 2006, 12:34:23 PM »

Hodgdon calls for Win large rifle primers with their powders for the .500S&W in the '06 Annual.

Tim

rk3006 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 29, 2006, 01:38:36 PM »

:grin: Thanks for all the help, I'll use a heavier crimp and go to WLR Primers and see what happens. I'm always amazed at the great guys on this forum, if someone has a problem there is always help here. That's what is great about the gun community , almost everyone i've ever met is nice enough to help or give information to a stranger. It is like a bond with all gun enthusiasts. thanks

Grizz_ · « **Reply #9 on:** May 29, 2006, 02:32:05 PM »

One word of caution, free advice.

I recommend that you don't change 2 variables at once. Either change the primers and leave the crimp the same, or change the crimp and leave the primers unchanged.

If you change 2 things you won't know what change did what. It's a basic trouble shooting strategy.

Also, in a rifle you may want to consider a different powder. The burn rate for a cartridge in a cylinder may be different than one in a rifle, another variable, to get the same pressures. I suspect that Tim may have some knowledge about this.

Regards,

Grizz

rk3006 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 29, 2006, 03:26:23 PM »

Thanks Grizz, Your right, I had some already loaded that I did last night. I tightened the crimp and left it at that as I had already loaded them with CCI large rifle primers. If that dosen't work i'll change to WLR primers.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** May 29, 2006, 03:42:06 PM »

Can't help ya with any handgun loads, I'm a newbie handloader compared to most all of you fellas, have never handloaded for any handgun, in fact, the only handgun I own is a Browning Buckmark .22!! The only Handi I had in a handgun caliber is now a .35 Remington!!

But on the subject of handgun vs rifle loads, I'd pick a powder that has a slower burn rate to take advantage of the longer barrel. I've dealt with that with my .45-70 loads in the 22" Handi compared to the 32" BC barrel. :oops:

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** May 29, 2006, 03:58:10 PM »

Something else I would like to add that I've read about, here's Hodgdon's info on the subject of .500 S&W brass and primers.

Quote

These data were developed with Starline Brass which was designed for use with large rifle type primers. Some brands of brass were designed solely for use with large pistol primers. Check with the manufacturer of the brass for correct primer usage. Rifle primers used in a pistol primer pocket cannot be seated sufficiently deep to be below flush with the casehead, which could result in sympathetic ignition of other rounds in the cylinder during recoil. Such use may result in damage to the firearm and/or result in injury or death of the shooter and/or bystander.

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/500swmag.php

Tim

tanoose · « **Reply #13 on:** May 31, 2006, 11:15:23 AM »

RK check the headstamp on your starline brass if there is an R then you should be using large rifle primers. If there is not an R on the headstamp then you should be using large pistol primers If you are using the correct primers then i would suggest you first try a heavier crimp before you switch primers. Good Luck Tanoose

rk3006 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 31, 2006, 11:42:21 AM »

Thanks Tanoose, The starline brass I am using is R stamped and I have been using CCI large rifles but I changed over to Winchester Large rifle primers. I re-crimped all of my reloads to a heavier crimp and this seemed to help, my ignition is better however I am still getting large amounts of smoke or carbon on my brass making extraction difficult. It seems the brass isn't sealing in the chamber. any ideas?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** May 31, 2006, 12:01:33 PM »

FWIW, I had the blackening of cases in my .22-250 Ultra using Hodgdon BL-C2, velocity was considerably less than Hodgdon said it should be using their data and components, Hodgdon replaced the powder as it was the suspected culprit. No ignition issues, tho. The powder didn't dispense very well thru my Lyman DPS1200 either, the replacement powder works fine in the DPS, but I haven't shot the new loads yet.

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #16 on:** May 31, 2006, 01:53:05 PM »

Your case is not sealing as a result of low pressure and maybe a bit oversize chamber. Use a faster powder and a good crimp.

The expansion ratio of these big pistol cases and bore is too great and they have to develop high presure in the case. 62kpsi or there about.

Low pressure is what you are experiencing resulting in blow by between the case and the chamber. This is not dangerous but very dirty and inconsistant.

Really all mag. pistol chambers should have minimum SAAMI chambers and cases should only be sized down to the bottom of the bullet. The spring back of the brass will allow for easy chambering.

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #17 on:** May 31, 2006, 05:06:23 PM »

Fred's right. You have a low pressure blow-by. I had a lot of problems with H110 and Win 296. Switching to a different load with a slightly faster powder cured everything.
H4227 works pretty well in the .500 Linebaugh and S&W .500

trotterlg · « **Reply #18 on:** May 31, 2006, 05:36:31 PM »

Neck sooting is a sure sign of too slow of a pressure rise. Faster powder or a magnum primer will help, 75% case full of powder is not really enough, you need about 85 to 90% or better for consistant ignition, or use a powder designed for reduced loads like AA 5744. Larry

From reloadingammo.com/500S&W: AA 5744 40.0 gr. ~1,450 (compressed 107%)

rockrat · « **Reply #19 on:** June 05, 2006, 03:34:57 PM »

I use lil-gun in my 500s&W. You can get the 300gr bullets to around 2300fps. If you do, hold on as they are fierce on both ends.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** June 05, 2006, 04:02:31 PM »

Quote from: rockrat

I use lil-gun in my 500s&W. You can get the 300gr bullets to around 2300fps. If you do, hold on as they are fierce on both ends.

Then you have an idea what 300gr Nosler Partitons would feel like at 2425fps in a .45-70 Handi!!

Tim

cwlongshot · « **Reply #21 on:** June 06, 2006, 12:48:07 AM »

:roll: Light weights.....try some man sized bullets! :wink:

Hows 500gr Hornadys at 1700+ with lil'Gun! :eek: :shock:

Shooting just over one inch at 100 yrds.

I put my sims recoil pad to good use on my 500! :grin:

I wont shoot them in my Handi, but my load of choice for the 45-70 is a 400gr Speer at almost 2100 fps. Thats a thumper, like Rockrat said...on BOTH ends!!

CW

safetysheriff · « **Reply #22 on:** June 07, 2006, 01:47:00 PM »

if you try Federal 210 Large rifle primers i think you'll find a little better ignition of the powder than you get with the WLR's, without getting the problem of having primer cups that are too hard like with some of the CCI's.

Federal 210 primers are just about the hottest LR primers out there. i saw where 'Mic' McPherson rated only the Federal 215's and maybe the Win' WLR-Magnums as being hotter in some experiments he did just a couple years ago. The Remington LR's in Magnum would also be a suggestion for a primer that 'Mic' found to be hotter than the Winchesters.

Consider ANY magnum handgun cartridge that is 'straight-walled' to need a firm crimp no matter what you fire it in.

I'd consider the use of either IMR or Hodgdon's 4227 speed (single-based) propellant for your application, or possibly Alliant's 2400 (made famous by Elmer Keith!) if there is data for it. With the Alliant 2400, however, i'd use standard rifle primers in those cases that have been labelled with the "R" headstamp.

i shoot a lot of Magnum loads in the straight-walled .357 and .44 Mag' variants. straight-walled cartridges can be problematic; but they are well worth the results when you catch on to what your firearm wants in them!

good luck,

ss'