Author Topic: 9/11 pentagon plane  (Read 6216 times)

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Offline Skeptic10787

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9/11 pentagon plane
« on: May 31, 2006, 04:02:31 AM »
9/11 brought on an endless amout of conspiracy theories. Most are just silly and cliche, but one stuck out. It was the theory that it wasn't a hijacked boeing 757 that crashed into the pentagon, but rather a missle of some sort. Many theorists have proposed many questions, including the size of the hole, lenth of the debris field in the building, lack of plane parts, lack of a photograph of the plane in the only video available, ect, ect. All of these questions have been answered by many different sources; however, like most conspiracy theories, any evidence debunking the theory is typically considered part of the conspiracy. I came across a rather well-made site debunking the conspiracy, so I'll let the group examine it for yourselves.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

Offline SAWgunner

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2006, 09:53:37 AM »
I happen to know for a fact that it was an airliner that hit the Pentagon.
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Offline williamlayton

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2006, 10:30:58 PM »
The old conspiracy mill must be running pretty low to start his up.
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Offline myronman3

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2006, 12:55:44 AM »
anyone who lived through 9/11 that doubt that it was an attack using  airplanes is a damn fool.    
 
  the only thing that might be a legitimate question,  is whether flight 93 was shot down or whether the passengers brave stand put the plane down.  
 
   does anyone know whether the passengers of flight 93 were awarded any honors?    i have often thought that these people were outstanding patriots,  and from what i know there are some there that deserve the cmh; imo.

Offline cccombo

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2006, 02:57:06 AM »
"The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it." - Dr. Joseph Mengele

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVOHJ5zMHr0&search=new%20pentagon%20video

and we had to wait almost 5 years for THAT?

i like this one better:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/170506reallylook.htm

All they care about is convincing that masses, and their are alot of stupid people in america, especially the ones that watch fox news alot. Even CNN, if you watch the major networks alot of the time, they will brainwash you and put you into a certain perspective where a crappy vid clip like this would convince you,
especially the context in which it was discussed.

Im not saying i know all the answers, I just know i smell a rat and somethings are obviously not true

at the end of the day believe this:

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Jun/28-581634.html

or this:

http://www.universalseed.org/

just dont draw your conclusion from commercial t.v  :roll:

Offline Skeptic10787

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2006, 07:04:48 AM »
The reason you can't see the plane in the video is because the plane wasn't just going cruise speed, it was going much faster... I believe in the area of 600-700mph the air traffic controllers said. The camera isn't a continuous video like a typical handheld camera, it does one frame every X-number of of seconds like most security cameras. So I don't doubt at all that the plane squeezed through the frames.
APM, you didn't comment on the link I provided. Are the pictures they provided all fake? What about the numerous physicists and aeronautical engineers that have stated the plane acted exactly like a 757 would hitting a super-reinforced structure at nearly the speed of sound? Your links only provide theory, not evidence. What do you say to the thousands of people who watched that plane fly in... they're all part of the conspiracy? What about the innocent americans who were on the plane... tell their families their loved ones just disappeared into thin air, and the body they buried isn't really their family member?
I agree with myron, the flight 93 question is one that seems suspicious; however, doesn't take away the heroic efforts of the passengers in attempting to stop the terrorists, regardless of whether it was their own actions or an F-16.

Offline Graybeard

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2006, 04:57:05 PM »
No one will ever convince me it was a plane and not a missle that hit the Pentagon. That hole didn't even have so much as a scratch that the wings or tail made, just a neat round hole. Not the way it works in the real world. I've seen no photo or video footage that makes me think it was a plane. The witness testimony is all over the place and folks near the same spot say they saw exactly opposite of each other.

I'll die convinced it was a missile.


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Offline williamlayton

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2006, 01:39:30 AM »
What about the missing plane, the death cetificates and forensic evidence from the location.
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Offline Skeptic10787

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2006, 04:56:45 AM »
Quote from: Graybeard
No one will ever convince me it was a plane and not a missle that hit the Pentagon. That hole didn't even have so much as a scratch that the wings or tail made, just a neat round hole. Not the way it works in the real world. I've seen no photo or video footage that makes me think it was a plane. The witness testimony is all over the place and folks near the same spot say they saw exactly opposite of each other


The hole was explained in the site I provided. I beilieve how it was explained, especially considering that the plane hit other structures before the pentagon, and also that the pentagon is a super-reinforced structure. Despite the popular claim that there was no wreckage, there is. What about those photos of the wreckage? Do you think they're fake? Pretty good fakes then. Witness testimony all over the place? Nothing but silly propaganda by the theorists, which couldn't be further from the truth... 99% of the testimony was consistent, with the exception of a few troublemakers who just wanted to get themselves on the news.
For once, I'll agree with william  :wink:  ...what about the missing passengers, missing plane, bodies recovered and linked to the passengers using independant forensic investigators? But the biggest question... Do you really think the terrorists got their hands on a cruise missle and the technology to launch one? We know for a fact that they had to use 3 other jetliners in the attacks, and all they've used since is RPG's and homemade bombs. Given that, I have serious problems thinking they had access and technology to launch one.

Offline Graybeard

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2006, 05:39:23 PM »
I believe the plane was shot down by a US Air Force Missile and that one which missed hit the Pentagon.

Sorry guys but I've see all the photos and all the video clips. I find nothing consistent with a plane crashing into the Pentagon. Nothing. There is nothing there that got hit prior to it to explain the lack of even a scratch from the wings or tail.

When the planes inpacted the twin towers you could clearly see the damage done by both wings and the tail as they told and ripped holes on the way in. They would have at the Pentagon too.


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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline williamlayton

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2006, 01:00:11 AM »
The towers were of a vastly different construction than the Pentagon. It is of layered construction and much heavier.
I cannot agree.
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Offline WylieKy

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2006, 03:04:46 AM »
GB,
An anit-aircraft missle wouldn't even scratch the pentagon.  They have significantly less explosive force than any given bomb and even anti-tank rockets.  Most anti-aircraft work like a shotgun.  Like wing shooting, it is almost impossible to hit a flying target with a single "bullet." So, instead of hitting a target, then blowing up, they explode several yards away and spray the area with shrapnel, depending primarily on their own speed to lend destructive force, and have just enought explosive to break up the wire coils or what ever they are using to generate shrapnel.  

A missed anti-aircraft missle would destroy a room or two, but nothing like the damage that was shown, especially against a hardened target.  I'm not saying it wasn't a missle, as I never considered it until I read this post and have not done any research, but it would not have been a "miss" aimed at an aircraft.

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Offline Skeptic10787

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2006, 05:39:56 AM »
Also, a missle wouldn't create a nearly perfect 13-14 foot hole in the building, which coincidently, is the same size as the body of a 757. The missile would have punched a small hole in the side (or the shotgun effect as wylie described... depends on the type of missile), then the high explosives would blow that section of the building apart. An aircraft would do exactly what happened... punch a hole the size of the body, then catch fire without the explosive force of a warhead. Yes, there was a fiery explosion from the jet fuel, but a warhead would have created a far more powerful explosion without the slow burning fuel fire we see in the video and pictures.
As for the wings, I believe one wing hit a large generator first, and the other hit the ground before impact with the building, then both were consumed in the fire. Again, contrary to popular belief, there were still parts confirmed to be from a 757 found at the crash site.
I'll play though. If the plane was shot down first, where did it go? We know it didn't go out over the coast, so where could it have crashed without anyone ever seeing it?

Offline cccombo

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2006, 03:26:03 AM »
this will answer most of your questions Skeptic10787


Quote
"This is the best damn 9-11 documentary out there." -Dave vonKleist, Producer of "911:In Plane Site" Loose Change is an extremely hard hitting, heavily referenced documentary. It has the best footage that I have seen to date, of all the bombs and explosions going off at the World Trade Center. He covers each individual aspect of 9/11 in keen detail, and after watching 'Loose Change' it is almost impossible to walk away and not believe that 9/11 was engineered, not by Osama, but by our own Government.


Heres a quote from Tom Flocco regarding Dylan Avery's brand new 911 documentary;

"...The best packaged DVD footage for sharing actual TV coverage & interviews shown only once during WTC / Pentagon attacks--evidence strangely removed from repeat broadcasts ...striking visual and narrative analysis--shown frame by frame--pointing to government-linked mass murder and a new Pearl Harbor ...every school class should see !

This film shows direct connection between the attacks of September 11, 2001 and the United States government.

Evidence is derived from news footage, scientific fact, and most important, Americans who suffered through that tragic day.

IT IS THE DUTY OF EVERY AMERICAN TO VIEW THIS FILM!"


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=loose+change

 or watch it on youtube

 part 1:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDx1GLqvBO8&search=loose%20change

 part 2:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJZlZP0vbCE&search=loose%20change

 part 3:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J7ipvgBLGc&search=loose%20change

has footage of what wreckage looks like when a airliner hits a bulding like the pentagon,  

pls dont comment on my post if you havnt watch THE WHOLE THING!
Quote

Offline Skeptic10787

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2006, 12:16:40 PM »
For the record, I did just watch the entire thing... all 121min. As APM said, I would suggest that everyone watch it before commenting further.

If the thread is still alive in a few days, I'll comment. All I'll say right now is that it was very interesting and shines a different light on facts we thought were known, but more importantly, provides answers to questions that were never answered.

Offline IntrepidWizard

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2006, 01:00:59 PM »
If you believe in the conspiracy answer one question,what happened to the plane and it's passengers and explain how so many people,military and other wize don't know as much as you and have not spoke up as most would be liberals.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline Skeptic10787

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9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2006, 03:11:09 PM »
Like I said... watch the clip before you comment. It answers all the questions you could think of, and more. I'm not saying I agree with everything in it, but it does put up a pretty good argument. Take the time to watch it.

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: 9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2006, 02:41:00 PM »
As for flight 93, YES , those people were great americans and they DO deserve the respect of our nation . Was the plane shot down , YES , that is the only way to get one engine 8 miles from the crash site .

As for the pentagon , i do not and will not be convinced that it was an airliner that hit the building . nor do i beleive it was a missed missle shot , the key word  is missed , and we all know that the American govermnent is more than capable of killing American citizens to further its own agenda .
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Offline longwinters

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Re: 9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2006, 05:04:15 PM »
Heck, I am not so sure that we ever really landed on the moon.  Ever see any of the conspiracy stuff on that?  Pretty convincing.

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Offline Skeptic10787

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Re: 9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2006, 05:34:29 PM »
Well, now that's pushing it a little. 9/11 can, and probably always will, have lots of conspiracy theories for two simple reasons... 1) The government refuses to answer certain questions, 2) The goverment has admitted to bad intelligence and outright lies. This doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't simply just the low-budget terrorist attack that we know it as, but it leaves all the options open.
The reason I dont and never will believe the moon landing theories is because all the questions can be answered, and every shred of the conspiracy propaganda can be debunked. Both scientists and NASA have answered the theories, and have proven their case. Conspiracy theorists have little to nothing to stand on, other than circumstantial thoughts that the USA wanted to get to the moon before the russians. The theories just don't stand. One perfect example is that of the Van Allen belt... the theorists claim that the astronauts couldn't have survived the radiation... yet Dr James Van Allen, the one who discovered and named the belts, has said that at no point did he even suggest that the belts contain a lethal dose of radiation.

Offline jk3006

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Re: 9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2006, 05:27:40 PM »
There are many details of the Pentagon hit that both sides lay claim to prove their respective points.  Some of these details are quite intriguing, some are absolutely mind-blowing.  For those who claim a 757 hit it, there is the landing gear picture, the engine turbine picture, pictures of misc. stuff like a seat, etc., a picture of a diesal generator that got moved, of course there's the picture that shows what people believe is a part of the fusalage on the lawn, pictures of the knocked-down light poles on the freeway, and the punch-out picture in the c-ring that was said to have been created by the landing gear.  Of course, I know I missed listing other pictures that didn't come to my mind right now.  I've read theories from both sides that relate to the above-mentioned pictures.  There are some serious questions as to the validity of some of the claims regarding those pictures.  It's possible that evidence could have been planted.  It's probably even more likely that some of the pieces in the pictures were misidentified. 

However, nothing that the government or governement-supporting people have said makes enough sense to me to even come close to convincing me that a 757 hit that building.  Why is there absolutely no apparent damage to the outside of the building?  Wings full of fuel would have done some damage, even if it was superficial.  The notion that the wings folded up into the fusalage upon impact is a joke.  Also, what about the engines.  They almost certainly would have penetrated more than anything else.  We are to believe that this plane disintigrated upon impact, but still left a hole in the c-ring?  Get real.  They claimed to have identified all but four or six of the people on the airplane, yet almost the entire airplane, including at least one of the engines, supposedley burned up?  Hello?!  There's no evidence of a superficial hit by the tail, wings, or engines?  And the official story says that it bounced off the lawn, yet the lawn was in perfect condition.  The employees there smelled cordite.  And it goes on and on. 

The eyewitness testimonies are for the most part a joke.  They don't prove anything.  I've read most of the ones that are available, and some of them are totally not believable, and others are sketchy at best.  Be careful to find a site that allows you to read the whole testimony of some of these witnesses.  I've seen on some pro-official-story sites how some of these testimonies have been broken up, meaning that the majority of what some of the "key" witnesses said were not even included.  The reason being that, if all of it was included, it would sound too ridiculous.  For example, I laughed my head off when I read what Mr. Frank Probst (I think I got that right) had to say about his near death experience.     

I know there seems to be apparant contradictions here and there on either side of the story, but to me there is ample evidence to prove beyond any resonable doubt that no 757 hit that building.  I don't have any answer as to what did hit the building, or as to what happened to those people on board, but not knowing those things doesn't automatically mean that the official version is true.  Sometimes you have to think outside the box a little bit.  For example, maybe there was no American Airlines flight 77, or if there was, maybe it wasn't even scheduled to fly that day.  Who knows. 

Of course, there's the rest of the events of 911 that include the towers and such that have government fingerprints all over them. 

In my opinion, unless a person has set aside a major portion of time to seriously look into the events of 911, that person has no real claim as to what happened that day.  I'm thinking something along the lines of: First, reading hundreds of pages of info from both sides, then watching some good documentaries (at least one or two), and then re-evaluting what was learned.
Unfortunately, I often hear people spouting off their opinions with almost no real logical of scientific basis backing them at all.  Or, they will say something without having hardly done any real investigation into the matter.  No human has a 100% monopoly on truth, but the more one studies and researches the more they can lay claim to some type of educated opinion or idea. 

Of course, there's also no such thing as absolute proof that will convince everyone of something or another.  That best that can be done is to collect enough data to show beyond any reasonable doubt that somebody or some organization is at fault for something.  Isn't that the way is works in court, or at least supposed to? 

Alright, I suppose this post is long enough.

Jon

Offline chico_cm

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Re: 9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2006, 09:14:33 AM »
I wasted more than an hour watching that conjecture and speculation.  I've also watched every show I could on Discovery/TLC on the events that had the engineers and Scientists giving expert opinion on the thing.
My analysis is simple:  You naysayers can't have it both ways:
option A:  George W. Bush is brilliant, extremely meticulous, cunning, etc. and capable of getting the multitude of people involved, to keep this super HUGE conspiracy a SERCRET
OR
option B:  George W. Bush is neither intelligent enough, nor has he enough influence/ political capital to pull this off, let alone finish what he started in Iraq, blah, blah, blah...
OR
option C:  This sort of thing has never happened so there is no absolute, scientific explanation for all the events of the day, and furthermore, NO ONE in Joe Average America thought that we had an enemy with this sort of resolve...and Dubya is a very good man, doing the best he can in a room full of sheep who are afraid of the big, bad wolf.

So LIBS, which is it?  Is GWB brilliant, is he stupid, or does EVIL really exist in the world? 
9-11-01.  Remember Dammit!

Offline S.S.

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Re: 9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2006, 07:49:11 AM »
If you watch the video very slowly you can see that whatever it was actually
hit short of the Building in the parking lot and bounced or skidded into the Pentagon.
It was moving extremely fast so was too blurry to see what it actually was.
But if it was a missile, It was massive in size. People say it was moving
faster than that particular jet was capable of flying but remember that it was
dropping from about 20,000 ft too.  It's sheer size would prevent me from believing the Missile theory. Was the plane shot down??? Who Knows
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Offline Casull

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Re: 9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2006, 02:25:46 PM »
Chico, put me down for option "C" (even though I am definitely not a liberal, I wanted to get my choice in).  If there is a one percent chance that something is not what it appears, some tinfoil hat type will come up with a theory.
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Offline lik2hunt

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Re: 9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2006, 02:12:59 AM »
SAWgunner wrote:
Quote
I happen to know for a fact that it was an airliner that hit the Pentagon.

I wonder if you could elaborate on this statement a bit, sir?
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Offline wncchester

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Re: 9/11 pentagon plane and landing speeds ....
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2006, 02:46:45 AM »
Just a couple of small comments ref. logic and aircraft ground effect speed:   

1. Pilots reduce speed and flair an aircraft to permit a soft, controlled landing.   

2. Crashing can be done at any speed and no amount of speed or ground effect vortex will keep it from happening.  Period.
Common sense is an uncommon virtue

Offline WylieKy

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Re: 9/11 pentagon plane and landing speeds ....
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2006, 04:23:28 AM »
I've read reports from real pilots stating that commercial airliners cannot effectively skim the ground like fighter planes owing to this 'ground' effect at speed. Official reports say the Pentagon plane skimmed feet off the ground and hit the first floor. Furthermore I've also read reports that 2/3 of commercial airliners failed on flight simulators to perform the 270 degree roll turn, skim the ground and strike the pentagon at ground level--they just couldn't do it like the flunky arab pilots could. So I don't know if all of this is true or not, but since the pentagon apparently has more photo evidence, seized and their own, why not release more detailed photo evidence and the flight recorder data and perhaps they could verify the truth and put the whole thing to rest.

..................TM7

I took the ground school portion of flight school with AFJROTC in highschool.  Ground effect is an issue with taking off and landing.  For example, a plane can crash due to ground effect when taking off because they are going fast enough for the ground effect to lift them, but when you get over a certain altitude you lose this and stall.  In this case, I think a pilot would benefit from ground effect, as it would stabelize the plane, providing a "false bottom" if you will, allowing the plane to glide along the ground until it hit a vertical surface.  Kind of llike air hockey. It also start fairly close to the ground, about 25% of the wing span. In this case it would first be noticed at about 30 ft and increase in effect the closer to the ground the plane got. 

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Offline wncchester

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Re: 9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2006, 03:38:49 PM »
TM, I'm puzzled by the report you have on the pilots inability to do in symulators what the arabs did at the pentagon.  Did those good pilots fail because they stalled and crashed on one wing in the turn or couldn't they get the aircraft to hit the ground at speed  in level flight?

Are we to belive that if pilots in a real plane, even close to the ground, simply pushed the column hard forward that it wouldn't go down?   I was in the AF, saw the results of a couple of crashes and they were flying pretty fast until they suddenly stopped.  I also piloted a little myself (civilian) a few times; that light aircraft sure changed directions when I pushed and pulled on the stick.  I cannot believe that a big one wouldn't do the same, meaning if the column was pushed hard forward it would surely go into the ground, at any speed.  A large, low flying plane MIGHT first lift a bit before it escaped some of the ground effect but it would eventually nose over and drive into the ground if the column was kept forward.

One factor in changing directions in any plane, and leveling out in a the bottom of even a shallow dive is a change, is that the supporting air is spongy, compressable.  That makes for skidding turns and poduces a larger turn radius than the attitude of the plane would indicate.  IF the ground effect on 9/11 played any part in the attack it seems to have been too little, too late to  cause the plane to "skim" to safety in its approach to the building.  No magic to it, just the simple physics of large heavy objects trying to change directions in the  soft and compressable medium of air. 
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Offline darrell8937

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Re: 9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2006, 02:21:48 PM »
do any of you realize just how fragile a  large airliner wing actualy is when hitting something solid. I beleive it would almost vaporize at these speeds.. did you know alumnium can be used as a Fuel, add jet fuel. and flash.. gone.. It can burn completly in a flash.: I hear constantly how Stupid George Bush is and is entire adminstration. How bush is a country bumkin that can barley keep a thought in his head. and yet a mastermind in this incident. The goverment couldn't keep a two bit burgulary(watergate) secret. and yet have maintened absolute displine of all that would have been involved. Even a Tomahawk missle could not do this damage.. I have seen a number of time in super slow motion on discovery channel from years ago, pre 911 where a jet fighter was accelerated down a track at 500 mph I beleive. fast any ways. Into a concrete wall. The thing just litteraly dissapered
into the concrete. Verry little left. Put this to scale and one might come to the same conclusion
God bless the fallen: below. you are not Forgotten!! You were Murdered by cowards, but will be avenged by Hero's.
These are real people.

pleas tell  Ms. Brown, who now lives in Florida, who lost her son. he is really be held capative somewhere. Or Murdered to keep the secret.
Flight 77 crew&passangers..
Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain. He is survived by a wife, a daughter and a grandson. He had more than 20 years of experience flying with American Airlines and was a former U.S. Navy pilot.

David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer on the flight. "He was handsome and happy and very centered," his neighbor Travis White, told The Washington Post. "His life was the kind of life I wanted to have some day."

Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years. She left behind a husband, a pilot, and a daughter and son.

Flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the wife of flight attendant Kenneth Lewis.

Flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the husband of flight attendant Jennifer Lewis.

Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.





PASSENGERS

Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.

Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.

M.J. Booth

Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.

William Caswell

Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Eddie Dillard

Charles Droz

Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.

Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.

Dee Flagg

Richard Gabriel

Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.

Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.

Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Yvonne Kennedy

Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.

Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.

Norma Langsteuerle

Dong Lee

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.

Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.

Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.

Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.

Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.

John Sammartino

Diane Simmons

George Simmons

Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.

Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.

Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.

Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.

Vicki Yancey

Shuyin Yang

Yuguag Zheng

 .
Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain. He is survived by a wife, a daughter and a grandson. He had more than 20 years of experience flying with American Airlines and was a former U.S. Navy pilot.

David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer on the flight. "He was handsome and happy and very centered," his neighbor Travis White, told The Washington Post. "His life was the kind of life I wanted to have some day."

Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years. She left behind a husband, a pilot, and a daughter and son.

Flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the wife of flight attendant Kenneth Lewis.

Flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the husband of flight attendant Jennifer Lewis.

Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.





PASSENGERS

Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.

Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.

M.J. Booth

Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.

William Caswell

Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Eddie Dillard

Charles Droz

Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.

Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.

Dee Flagg

Richard Gabriel

Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.

Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.

Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Yvonne Kennedy

Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.

Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.

Norma Langsteuerle

Dong Lee

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.

Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.

Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.

Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.

Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.

John Sammartino

Diane Simmons

George Simmons

Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.

Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.

Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.

Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.

Vicki Yancey

Shuyin Yang

Yuguag Zheng


Offline ironglow

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Re: 9/11 pentagon plane
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2006, 04:15:26 PM »
   The only conspiracy in this whole event that I can find, is the 9/11 commission hearings themselves  whereby most of the congressmen etc from both sides of the aisle were trying to cover for themselves and each other.
  There sat Jamie Gorelic (asst to Janet Reno) and the architect of the law that forbids FBI, NSA and CIA from even warning each other of terrorist plots against our country...and not a single person asked her why she wrote such a boneheaded law.
   
  If she had not written that law, our law enforcement and intelligence agencies would have likely been able to "connect the dots" and 9/11 would have been just another failed plot.

    Much of that same crowd (libs) STILL don't want us to track the terrorists by phone, internet etc....NOW THERE IS A CONSPIRACY TO CHECK OUT>>>why do the libs want us to lose this 3rd world war ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)