Author Topic: Hardwood shafts  (Read 1584 times)

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Offline tomg

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Hardwood shafts
« on: April 01, 2003, 10:48:50 AM »
I just ordered a doz. ash shafts and I'm having trouble straightening them..  I've been using the Shaft Tamer and heat...On the ones  that are straight I can't get the stain to soak in ... Anybody ever worked with hardwood shafts before that can help???? They look and feel like they're going to be some great arrows if I can get 'em made...I'm thinking of getting some hickory shafts and trying them too...Thanks for any help you can give.     tomg

Offline Bob/FLA

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hardwood shafts
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2003, 10:54:23 AM »
Your issues are not uncommon with hardwood arrows.  They are not only harder to straighten, they don't stay straight.  They are also hardwood...they will not take stain like softwoods.  That's the down side to hardwoods.

good luck!
Thanks!
Bob

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Offline tomg

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Hardwood shafts
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2003, 11:23:49 AM »
Bob is there maybe some kind of trick to get them to stain Like heating them up right before staining them or something ?

Offline Bob/FLA

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shafts
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2003, 04:03:44 AM »
haven't tried that...let me know how it works out.  I tried hardwood shafts once and went back to po ceder.  It's heavy enough, easy to straighten and stays straight.  

Instead of stain, you might try painting them.  I do not paint mine, as I like to see the grain of the wood and honestly, it's too dang much work!  I just want to cover the white of the wood and shoot.

You might also try a leather dye for coloring the shafts.  It penetrates pretty well on ceder...haven't tried it on hardwood.  If you can wait till this weekend, I can try on a piece of ash and give you the results.

Hope this helps
Thanks!
Bob

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Offline tomg

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hardwood shafts
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2003, 07:41:44 AM »
Thanks Bob, If you could do that it would be great. THis weekend I'm going to heat up the worst shaft as hot as I can get it and place it inside of an old alum. arrow . I'm hoping as it cools down over a couple of days that it'll set straight.

Offline Mad Dog

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Hardwood shafts
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2003, 10:02:05 AM »
Well, I beg to differ, but I used to run a traditional archery shop 8+ yrs. ago[pre-divorce], and I built and sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 600+ custom dozen arrows, all by hand, and by myself.  Most all were hardwood shafts[ramin wood and hickory].

They can be straightened, and stay straight, and they will take a beautiful stain[with the right product].  First, the shaft material has to be dry, if it is carrying too much moisture, you will never straighten them.  If you suspect that the shafts are too wet, bundle them together in groups of 1 dozen, bundle them together very tightly and either put them up in the attic this summer for six to eight weeks to dry, or build a small kiln box and use a heat lamp to do the same.

Next, when the shaft is dry, get a small brass hook[you can buy them at any dept. store], and screw it into a piece of dowel rod about 6" long.  Sight dow your shaft, and do some initial hand straightening[like you would with cedar, or any other wood shaft].  Next lean the shaft up on your bench at a 45 degree angle, and sight down the shaft.  Turn any bends upward, then put the brass hook over the shaft and rub it back and forth while maintaining downward pressure on the dowel rod handle.  The hook straightening technique does 2 things it applies heat and pressure at the same time.  Do this up and down the shaft untill you have taken out all the crooks.  Depending on the shaft material, you may have to do this with more pressure on some materials than others.  For instance ramin wood and hickory take a lot more downward pressure and brisk rubbing from the brass hook, than say cedar.  You will also have to probably do 8-10 shafts before you will get the hang of how much pressure to apply.  Oh, for those who are wondering about the brass hooks, there the ones that your mother or grandmother used to hand pot holders on in the kitchen.  You can probably get a box of assorted sizes for under a couple of bucks.

Staining.....Get some fiebings alcohol based leather dye at your local shoe shop, or leather outlet.  Get a piece of white cloth, pour the dye on the cloth, and wipe the shaft down with it.  The alcohol dries almost immediately, and at last count fiebings made 28-30 different colors.  IMPORTANT:   If you don't want your hands the same color as your shafts , wear RUBBER GLOVES!   Lastly, your shafts are ready for your sealer.  Hope this helps, and wasn't too confusing.  Once you get the hang of hook straightening, you can hook and stain a dozen shafts in about 30 minutes or less.

Mad Dog
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Offline Bob/FLA

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Thanks Mad Dog!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2003, 10:31:35 AM »
It's great to get an answer from a pro.  As I stated above, I tried it once and was not happy with hardwood shafts.  Your techniques should help considerably.  I did not use heat and pressure, just pressure only.  

Thanks for clearing this up...at least I got the leather dye right :)

Bob
Thanks!
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Offline tomg

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hard wood shafts
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2003, 04:35:19 AM »
Mad Dog that hook worked like a charm. I can't beleive how much I had to bend them to get  'em straight..I bent  'em 4 to 5 times as much as I would a cedar, the Shaft Tamer wasn't even coming close to the amount of bend I needed.   I still need to get the leather dye. These ash shafts are super tough...

Offline tomg

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hard wood shafts
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2003, 04:43:46 AM »
Mad Dog that hook worked like a charm. I can't beleive how much I had to bend them to get  'em straight..I bent  'em 4 to 5 times as much as I would a cedar, the Shaft Tamer wasn't even coming close to the amount of bend I needed.   I still need to get the leather dye. These ash shafts are super tough...

Offline Mad Dog

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Hardwood shafts
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2003, 05:06:49 AM »
Yep, the brass hook works like a charm.  The hard part is trying to tell someone how much downward pressure to apply.  You just have to do a few, untill you get the hang of it.  If you apply that much pressure to a cedar shaft, you will snap it in two.  When I was on the circuit, going to the trad. nationals at cloverdale In., and the great lakes longbow shoot up in Mi., I used to spend a LOT of time demonstrating the brass hook to fellow archers.  Oh yeah, about the leather dye, if you mark your shafts, you can stain the to in a "crown dip" color, and do the bottom in a different color, and cover the overlap in a crest.  I even got to mixing colrs and cme up with some rather "interesting" looking colors.  The only color that doesn't work too well by itself is white.  However, I mixed some red and white together and made some hot pink arrows for a gal one time......but that's another story :)

Mad Dog
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Offline tomg

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hardwood shafts
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2003, 06:37:24 AM »
To tell ya the trueth, I took my worst shaft and  tried to use the hook to straighten it .But for about 4 or 5 minutes I was getting nowhere,So I got ticked off and tried to break the shaft while I was using the hook...Only to find out that I bent It almost into a horse shoe and the thing still wouldn't break ....I checked the shaft again after doing this and found out that It was almost straight . These thing are as tough as any carbon arrow I've ever had... If they shot well I think I'll never buy anything but ash shafts from now on........

Offline Mad Dog

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Hardwood shafts
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2003, 08:50:17 AM »
If you wanted to see a TOUGH shaft, back in the old days I found some 5/16" high spine ramin wood.  I was shooting 64-66 lb. spine weight in that small of a diameter.  I matched the shafts to within 1 lb. spine, and 10 gr. weight.  I then mounted 5/16" ferruled 3 blade 125 gr. snuffers to them.  I cut the arrows 29" to back of point.  Finished weights were in the 630-640 grs.  They flew like DARTS, and every deer I shot with them was a complete pass through.  I called them my TRADITIONAL carbons! :)

The heaviest spine weight I ever found in a 5/16" shaft was 82 lbs.! :eek:

I only found one, so I tricked it out real fancy, and it hangs on my mothers wall.

Mad Dog
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Offline tomg

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hardwood shafts
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2003, 03:37:09 AM »
I just couldn't wait anylonger ...looking for leather dye ....It was killing me ...So I stained them with dark walnut and left it on for about 1min... They turned out real nice . The grain turned black and the rest a light tan ...They kind of look like aged oak.. The only thing I'm worried about now is the weight ...They're spined 60-65 and weigh455-475grains ... how much will a 10inch crown dipp add to the total weight? I'm only shooting about 50-52lbs and don't want the arrows to be way to heavy..

Offline Hawkeye

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Staining Hardwood Shafts-You have PM
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2003, 09:57:28 AM »
I make a lot of hardwood arrows from Ash, fir and maple. I use analine dyes from Grayghost and Wildcat Canyon Archery. Mix with water or alcohol. This dye will penetrate any wood. I made some maple that looked just like osage wood. I use green, gray, yellow, burgundy. Works great.
Mike
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Offline jdbe

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Hardwood shafts
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2003, 06:44:59 PM »
Well, this answers a question that I have had for a while - are ash arrows worth a damn?  I shoot a 50# refles/deflex longbow with 60-65# cedars and they just do not hold up.  Even shooting into hay bales with a horse trailer mat behind them to prevent pass throughs, I brake em fairly often.  I was thinking about trying ash as they would be both heavy and stronger, but was concerned about how good they would be.  After reading this thread, I will definately get some.  
Thanks for the tips on stains as that was a question that I was wondering about.  I have worked with hard woods before (made several long bows and takedown recurves), I know that hard woods are hard to stain but I never have worked with ash before.  
Any good sources for hard wood shaft material either straight or tapered?  I found Allegheney mountain arrow woods online and I believe they sell a doz matched to +- 5lbs and 10 grains for around $18, but You have to fax or email orders to them and I would rather do it secure oline if possible.
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Offline wormbobskey

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Hardwood shafts
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2003, 06:35:22 PM »
I just got some maple shafts and was hoping to get some advise on how to stain them and what sealer to use. i have been using latex enamel on the arrows I builder for target practise, but I want to do these shafts up right. Worm
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Offline tomg

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hard wood shafts
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2003, 09:32:49 AM »
I use minwax oil base on the shaft. Like dark  aged oak. It stains the grain pretty dark and the rest a light tan. Real pretty. Then I crown dip with bohning , and crest after that dries. Afterwards, I use a simi-gloss waterbase minwax  to cover the crest and stained shaft.... When I put the stain on I put it on pretty heavy and let it work in for about  1 minute then I rub it off or you'll get a black arrow. I've tried the lighter colored stains in the past but they don't show up very well. Also don't stain  under your crown dipp. Good Luck..Hope this helps.

Offline wormbobskey

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Real walnut stain?
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2003, 01:48:01 PM »
I am still trying to work on these maple shafts and was wondering if anyone has actually used walnut hulls to stain your arrow shafts? I have been boiling and dying traps for the last couple of weeks and was wondering if I could use the walnut hulls that I dye my traps with to stain those maple shafts? I will be wanting to seal them after they are stained and was just wondering if anyone has experimented with this type of stain? Would hate to ruin a good batch of shafts. Thanks, Worm. :D  :D
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Offline tomg

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HARD WOOD
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2003, 11:23:18 PM »
I'VE NEVER DONE IT TO ARROWS BUT HAVE STAINED MY HANDS MANY TIMES WITH THEM AS A KID. IT SOUNDS INTERESTING AND I THINK IT SHOULD WORK.  PLEASE LET US KNOW HOW THEY TURN OUT IF YOU DO IT.

Offline wormbobskey

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Real walnut stain?
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2003, 09:29:51 AM »
They worked fairly well. I first put on a light coat by making a slice in the walnut husk and rubbed it up and down the maple shaft. I let it dry for a few hours than applied another coat the same way as the first. let it dry than used fine sand paper to remove any walnut husk and to thin out any spots that looked to dark. After all that I applied three coats of eurythane sanding each coat with OOOO steel wool. I used some 5" shield cut feathers I got off ebay, brown cock feather and florecent pink hen feather ( its all the guy had left), with green mercury nocks and topped off with Bear 145 grn. broad heads ( no bleeder blade installed). Spun tested the half dozen, made a few minor adjustments and took them out back to shoot. Its been raining a lot here and I was worried that if I missed the foam deer target that the feathers would be ruined in the mud, but fortunately I hit the mark. All the arrows flew very well but one which I have since re-adjusted. Out of my 50lb. recurve they fly well and hit hard with very good penetration. Its been over a week since I made up the arrows and none of the feathers have tried to peel up or come off. Worm
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