Never put them over a crony that I can remember. I do know it was over a generous dose of 3031 which gives 1835 f/s with a Remington 405 grain JSP bullet. For patching the GG I used the Lee 405 grain RNFP, cast very soft, about 1:30. Stopped patching for my buddy's GG several years ago. He liked the convenience of the JSP.