Author Topic: .45 Colt leading (Read 513 times)

dubber123 · « **on:** June 14, 2006, 12:09:09 PM »

I recently bought a 6 1/2" T/C barrel in 45 Colt to serve as a lighter practice barrel for my 6 1/2" 50-70 barrel. The only bullets I have right now are Lyman 452424's lubed with LBT Blue Soft. This mold casts dead round, and bullets are sized to .452. 1st load, 8 grs of Unique. Not too good at 50 yds. noticed a surprising amount of lead after only 5 rounds. Cleaned barrel, loaded 14 grs of HS-7. 1st 3 rounds in 1" at 50 yds, with increasing leading with each shot, last 2 shots stretched to 2" total group. Cleaned barrel, next load, 6.6 grs of Bullseye, (Very light), 1st 3 shots offhand at 25 yds in a dime, more lead, last 2 shots opened up group. I am thinking possibly an oversized barrel? I will try sizing to .454 this weekend. The bore looks new and not overly rough for a factory barrel. Supposedly only had 5 rounds fired when I bought it, and that looks truthful. Any other ideas? Thanks.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #1 on:** June 14, 2006, 12:47:04 PM »

run a couple hundred jacketed bullets through it then clean it throughly and try it again.

dubber123 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 14, 2006, 12:55:31 PM »

Lloyd, thanks for the reply. I am guessing you are thinking a rough bore. I can certainly see that as I can't see T/C making a .454 bore gun these days, although it could just be a lemon. I will try the fatter bullets first, and if that doesn't work, I'll have to bite the bullet (HAHA), and get some jacketed. After casting my own for all my handguns, I hate buying jacketed, but if it cures the problem, so be it. I'll let you know how it goes.

Questor · « **Reply #3 on:** June 14, 2006, 12:59:09 PM »

Dubber123:

You may be experiencing the same problem I experienced with cast bullets in a T/C 44 magnum barrel: The load may be OK for revolvers because of venting and loss of pressure through the cylinder gap, but not OK for the T/C barrel because the hot gas bypasses between the bullet and the bore, thereby causing leading. The cure is to reduce the load somewhat so the pressure is lower, or increase it to magnum velocities of over 1100fps to increase the pressure so the bullet base "obturates" and prevents the bypass of gas. In my 44 barrel, I typically get 150fps more velocity in than the same load in a revolver.

To get the leading out, the best thing in the world is to take a 38 caliber bore brush, wrap it with fine bronze wool (available from Brownells), and scrub the bore with it.

dubber123 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:35:57 PM »

Questor, I've had similar experiences, which is why I tried the Bullseye load, (800 fps.), and the HS-7 load, (1100 fps.). The hotter load seemed to have a definate accuracy advantage, until it plugged the barrel full of lead. The big deal is to find a lighter kicking, cheap, (plainbase preferred) practice load so I can give my wrists and fingers a break from the 50-70 barrel, while giving me a similar weight/sight combo. I know the Colt can go fast, and I'll eventually see what it can do, but I really need a "plinker load". I have had the same experience with my .44 mag barrel, it shoots almost 150 fps. faster than my longest revolver with less powder. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll figure it out one way or the other.

warf73 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 14, 2006, 11:59:48 PM »

I just looked at Hodgdons web site and Alliants and all the loads you listed (other than the HS-7 couldn’t find data using that powder) are rather warm compared to there listed data, other than the Unique and it was the max load.

From what I’m seeing you’re getting leading from using to HOT of a load, unless the Lyman 452424 isn’t a 255gr bullet?

What I would do is slow down that bullet a little and use lets say 6.0grs. of Unique for a start load and stop at 7.5grs. as a max load.

If you still get leading using that rang of powder charge I would look at the hardness of my bullet. If it’s too hard you will get leading also.

Also slug you bore so you know exactly what you have. Make sure you have a clean bore before you slug it.

On my plinking fun load I use 7.5grs of Red dot using that same bullet. I’m casting the bullet using straight WW.
My lube is 60% Bees wax, 30% Virgin Olive oil, 10% Paraffin wax.

Warf

Castaway · « **Reply #6 on:** June 15, 2006, 05:55:20 AM »

A few things come to mind, as posted above, too hard often results in leading at low velocities/ pressure. I have to disagree with warf73, your loads aren't coming close to being hot for your Contender. Try some 4227 of either ilk or Win 296 or H110. If your bullets are too hard for your Unique loads it's an invitation for your problem. Another possible problem, as Lloyd mentioned, is a rough barrel. Clean the barrel, then try a break-in procedure using jacketed bullets; fire one, clean, repeat 10 times, fire 5 then clean, repeat 5 times, then fire 10, clean and repeat. You will end up "ironing" down some of the machinging marks and slicking the barrel. You stated another possible porblem with under sized bullets. Slug the barrel and see what you've got. To compound the problem, it can be a combination of all of teh above. Don't give up. As far as your existing bullet cache, try coating them in Lee Alox and get the use out of them before throwing them away

dubber123 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 15, 2006, 11:53:39 AM »

My data is from Speers # 10 manual. I shot 8 grs. Unique. Max is listed as 8.5, for a Colt single action, (15,900 CUP.). My second load of HS-7 was 14 grs. max listed as 15.5 grs. (Ruger and Contender section). My third load was 6.6 grs Bullseye, max is 7.1, for Colt single action, (low pressure). Don't get me wrong, I'm not busting on you, I just want you to know I'm not just picking random loads. I will try a little lighter, but the Colt case is big, and mine always seem to shoot like crap with too little powder in the case. I tried the hotter HS-7 load because thats the charge I use with a 320 gr. in my 4" revolver. The bullets I have cast are air cooled wheelweights, not dead soft, but not very hard either. I have shot this alloy at over 1000 fps with a lot less leading. I'm still back to oversize bore, or it's rougher than it looks. If I could just be independently wealthy, I'd have more time for important stuff like this! Thanks, keep the ideas coming.

warf73 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 16, 2006, 09:31:01 PM »

I wasn’t trying to come off and say your loads are out of the blue but from the data I have at hand(I’m at work) which is the Powder Companies Webs sites. The loads you posted are higher than listed on there web sites.

Since you are using WW air cooled (same as I do) I would look at the bore (slug the barrel) and I would look at my lube.

WW should be OK to 1000fps if the bullet is sized properly to the bore and a good lube is used.

Hope this helps and sorry if I came off gruff.

Warf

dubber123 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2006, 05:13:48 AM »

warf73, not any problem with me, I appreciate any and all feedback. The Speer manual I referenced is pretty old, 1970's I think. I am going to cast up some more today, and size them .002" larger. I looked at the bore again, and it's not super rough, but it's no hand lapped beauty either. I may have to fire lap it, or try shooting a bunch of jacketed as suggested on this forum. My lube is LBT's Blue Soft which has been great for me in preventing leading. Thanks again.

dubber123 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2006, 03:43:22 PM »

Loaded some more 8 gr. Unique loads with the bullets sized .454" same alloy. The leading problem seems to have disappeared. I will have to try some more, (and for groups), as I only fired 15. Before with the .452" bullets, only 5 rounds were needed to lead it up badly. 15 with the big ones and the bore is almost perfectly clean. I still have to slug it out of curiosity, and may try some of your bore conditioning suggestions.