Author Topic: Question for the thinkers (Read 2111 times)

Ghostrider_23 · « **on:** June 14, 2006, 12:25:53 PM »

Question for the thinkers. Many of you carry a semi auto and some of you carry a revolver. I started thinking about that statement and began to wonder whether the proÂ’s outweighed the cons of carrying an auto.

1. Pros of an auto: more round capacity, easier to reload clip, extra safeties, easy to carry, better accuracy
2. Cons of an auto: heavier than a revolver ( in some cases), may jam without notice, may feed without notice, expels brass all over the place chasing brass to reload

1. Pros of a revolver: easy to carry, never jams, no feed problems, no expelled brass, most of the time more muzzle velocity than an auto rounds, easy to reload brass
2. Cons of a revolver: less round capacity, not as easy to reload,

With this being said did I forget any pros or cons???

Which one do you carry or prefer???

Is this making you rethink your primary carry weapon???

jimster · « **Reply #1 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:22:08 PM »

Most times I'm carrying a 1911 .45 that I know will work, with good new ammo that I know will work.
But...I have a real soft spot for revolvers too. I love them both.

When I'm in less crowded places such as small country towns, or in the country I like using a revolver, and....I often have a single action with me with a shorter barrel in those types of settings.

What can I say, I love both types, and use them both, depending on how I feel and where I am.
I don't feel under gunned with a single action on me either.

The 1911 is my primary carry gun in and around the city, or in any questionable places though, with an extra clip on my belt.

I'm just now getting into practicing a lot with a double action revolver, and I'm finding that this is a VERY good defensive weapon, and a .357 magnum has a LOT of energy for sure. So maybe there will come a day when my primary carry gun will be a double action when in and around the cities.

Jimster

KN · « **Reply #2 on:** June 14, 2006, 03:43:34 PM »

A revolver won't jam? I can assure you a revolver can jam. Have a squib load get stuck between the cylinder and forcing cone and you'll be throwing the gun at your target. I've had that happen. Have a primer back out and watch the cylinder lock up. Get some dirt under the extractor and watch it not function. Have a hammer spring break and it won't go bang. Plenty of things can go wrong with a revolver. But you are correct in that it's not nearly as picky. For me I'll stick to my Kahr p9 covert. It never gives me any problems as long as I keep it clean and oiled. And light enough to carry all day comfortably. Oh, My second choice is my Taurus 85 hammerless. KN

williamlayton · « **Reply #3 on:** June 14, 2006, 05:04:23 PM »

Murphy's Law is applicable to both.
I own both.
I carry both but the auto is by far my choice.
If you are going to trust either it must prove itself over several thousand rounds. This would mean it would not be a cheap weapon.
I have had a fireing pin break in the middle of a range session with a revolver.
Blessings

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #4 on:** June 15, 2006, 01:03:00 AM »

Mechanical devices of all sorts can and do malfunction for a variety of reasons.

azmike · « **Reply #5 on:** June 15, 2006, 09:45:56 AM »

I prefer DAO or stiker fired autos, only because that is what I have trained on most. I believe that training is more important than platform type.

That said, if my best friend were asking me this question with the intent to get his first and only defensive handgun, I would suggest he buy a Glock 19 or a 3 inch barrel medium frame .357, and spend all of the time and money he could on practice (ammo and training). At risk of upsetting the revolver guys (I am one, by the way), I would give the Glock the edge from a training standpoint. YMMV. Good luck.

mike

rockbilly · « **Reply #6 on:** June 15, 2006, 11:38:48 AM »

I have fired thousands of rounds through revolvers and with the exception of one that blew up in my hand, never had a malfunction when firing one. I can't say the same thing about an auto, several of them have given me problems over the years, mostly feed or ejection problems.

As for accuracy, don't underestimate the revolver. Most of the guns that do not perform well are short barrel. These guns are not designed for accuracy beyond 15-20 feet, they are an up close and personal self defense weapon. This is also true for some of the short barrel autos.

As for my gun of choice, it is an auto, but I often carry a revolver especially when I am out at the farm, hunting or fishing. I do this because I can load a shot shell to first, and hard nose afterwards, I only have to move the cylinder to advance to a hardnose if needed, less fuss for me. :roll:

35Rem · « **Reply #7 on:** June 15, 2006, 02:57:59 PM »

Short barrel guns ARE NOT inherently inaccurate.

The shooters typically are, because a shorter barrel gun, with a shorter sight radius, are harder to shoot well.

No reason for the gun to be inaccurate.

K.K · « **Reply #8 on:** June 16, 2006, 03:23:30 AM »

Although I also carry both, one con of the revolver is that it is wider then a semi auto. this can make for concelament issues in some cases.

257 roberts · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2006, 03:19:09 AM »

I carry both mostly autos(revolvers do jam) :wink:

aaronrkelly · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2006, 12:03:53 AM »

I carry both depending on what the situation calls for.

Something to beat around on my ankle or in the bottom of my pocket....collecting grime and pocket lint. I want a revolver.

Something in my OWB holster.....I use an auto (Kimber 1911).

Old Griz · « **Reply #11 on:** July 14, 2006, 09:44:34 PM »

Quote from: Ghostrider_23 on June 14, 2006, 12:25:53 PM

1. Pros of an auto: more round capacity, easier to reload clip, extra safeties, easy to carry, better accuracy

Why would you think that a gun with a moving barrel would be more accurate than a gun with a fixed barrel?

PaulS · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2006, 04:50:00 PM »

Someone mentioned that a concealed carry gun had to prove itself - Mine has.
I use a revolver. I bought it for that reason. I have had no failures to fire, no lock-up or binding problems.
I shoot full power loads all the time and they are accurate and I am sure that I would need only one shot. My 357 Magnum will go through a bad guy, and continue to kill anyone who is behind that guy - sorry about that. It will also go through the windshield of a car and kill the driver. I am not a person who thinks that "over-penetration" is a bad thing. I might need something that will penetrate that far if he is using body armor or hiding partly behind a car door.
In 34 years my Ruger Security-Six has never had any problems with handloads or factory ammo.
I guess it has done that to make up for the many times that my Colt Combat Commander stove piped, failed to return to battery, and jammed cases after firing one shot. All with factory FMJ rounds. I did finally get it to shoot groups as small as 2 inches at 25 yards but I could never solve all of the failure to fire problems. I sold the gun for more than I paid for it but it never was dependable.

44 Man · « **Reply #13 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:33:29 AM »

Well, I'm going to kick the can here. MOST of the time I wear a Colt Defender .45 inside the waist band of my pants. This gun has the shorter Officers length butt and is a little easier to conceal. It's the length of the butt poking out the back of your shirt, that affects concealability, not barrel length. If I am where I feel I need a little more concealment factor, I wear a S&W Chief's special lightwt .38 also IWB. I love the reassurance the .45 gives but I also feel that 5 well placed .38 +P+'s will also do the job. As for hit potential, I can stay on a 12 inch steel plate at 100 yds with my 2" bbl snub and have several times in front of witnesses. Enough said about short barrels being inaccurate. As for reliability, some guns are, some are not, autos or revolvers. The one's in the 'not' catagory go down the road. I would never carry any gun that had not proved itself 100% to me. It's more what YOU are comfortable with (revolver or auto) and take that gun and shoot it until you know what it will do and what you can do with it. Then wear it 100% of the time, every where you go, as you never know what will happen when. Just my humble opinion from 25 years of experience. 44 Man

Hook686 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2006, 09:49:03 PM »

Ghostrider_23
Member

« on: June 14, 2006, 05:25:53 PM » wrote:"

Quote

Question for the thinkers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question for the thinkers. Many of you carry a semi auto and some of you carry a revolver. I started thinking about that statement and began to wonder whether the proÂ’s outweighed the cons of carrying an auto.

1. Pros of an auto: more round capacity, easier to reload clip, extra safeties, easy to carry, better accuracy
2. Cons of an auto: heavier than a revolver ( in some cases), may jam without notice, may feed without notice, expels brass all over the place chasing brass to reload

1. Pros of a revolver: easy to carry, never jams, no feed problems, no expelled brass, most of the time more muzzle velocity than an auto rounds, easy to reload brass
2. Cons of a revolver: less round capacity, not as easy to reload,

With this being said did I forget any pros or cons???

Which one do you carry or prefer???

Is this making you rethink your primary carry weapon???

Note: I find item 1. not always true. My S&W 627 (an 8 nshot .357 magnum revolver) carries as many rounds, as my S&W 3913TSW (a 8 round 9mm pistol) ... the 627 reloads, as fast, if not faster (do not need to rack a slide to chamber a round) than my 9mm pistol (the 627 uses moon clips) .... as far as better accuracy, the pistol is not more accurate than the S&W 627 revolver for me, nor do I personally think the S&W 3913 I have to be more safe than the S&W 627 I use. Easier to carry a pistol ? Hmmmm I think that is open to personal consideration ... I find my S&W revolvers, as easy to carry as my S&W, or Glock pistols.

papajohn428 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 22, 2006, 12:03:31 PM »

Carryability is as much a function of comfort as it is concealability. And as was said, bigger barrels do not compromise concealment, big butts do. I like smallish revolvers, and shoot them better that I do most autos, but everyone is different. I believe the DA revolver requires more practice before good DA shooting results, but once learned properly, it's easier to hit with. I only shoot revolvers SA at longer distances, meaning past 75 yards, all my other shooting is DA only, and I can roll soda cans at 50 yards all day, because that's what I practice most, around 20K rounds a year. Confidence with your carry gun is VERY important! And while I've seen a few autos that would outshoot revolvers, they were few and far between!

Papajohn

Dee · « **Reply #16 on:** July 27, 2006, 02:50:03 PM »

On one of your pros for the auto you said more accurate. Not true. A quality revolver when well maintained will shoot all day with an auto in the accuracy dept. On magazine capacity let me give you stats that HAVE NOT CHANGED since the late 60's. I was a tactical officer for 19 years and kept up with them when the FBI published them to Police Depts. The best ONE SHOT stopping record for any police round was and STILL IS the 357 magnum 125 grain jacketed hollow point (no not the 357sig, it AIN"T the same. The second, was the 45acp I believe in the 200 grain jacketed hollow point. The worst record was AND STILL IS the 9mm. These statistics are NATION WIDE police shootings on ONE SHOT STOPS.
Next topic is magazine capacity verses cylinder revolver. The average shoot out distance involving an officer was 7 FEET and the average rounds expended BY BOTH OFFICER AND ASSAILANT was 3.7 rounds.
What does this tell me as a private citizen as of 12 years ago who was personally involved in two seperate incidents and know and have talked to several officers involved in shoot outs. If your still fighting after 6 rounds you need to think about either a change in tactics or locations cause, what your doing AIN'T WORKING. It also tells me to carry what I am most comfortable with. Incidently one of the incidents I was carrying a Model 28 Smith in 357 and the other a Colt Lightweight Commander which I had rebuilt. Both performed adaquately although during each time I would have prefered a rocket launcher. Remember a handgun is a DEFENSIVE not OFFENSIVE weapon.

PaulS · « **Reply #17 on:** July 28, 2006, 09:10:57 PM »

Quote

Remember a handgun is a DEFENSIVE not OFFENSIVE weapon.

Dee,
If the need ever arises can I have you called as a witness to that fact?

I've heard way too many people say that a pistol is an offensive weapon that is designed for no other purpose than to kill people. I always figured that if I wanted to kill something and be safe doing it I would use a rifle - from a long way away.

Dee · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2006, 12:30:09 PM »

Sure call anytime. What are friends for. And I'm sure that the people that told you that voted for Al Gore. However, as I have been out of L.E. for about 12 years now, most of my expert testimony will revert back to my training in the acadamy where I was taught to answer questions with "I don't recall".

PaulS · « **Reply #19 on:** July 29, 2006, 03:21:51 PM »

Now THAT sounds like a cop! or is that a cop-out? Thanks friend, I think I'll just try to stay out of the courtroom. That way there is no pressure on our friendship.

Dee · « **Reply #20 on:** July 30, 2006, 09:43:05 AM »

See! I've already helped. But, staying out of courtrooms is a good decision. In todays society you never know what a jury will come up with. You could get the death penalty for Jay Walking. A defense attorney once told me that he could get me all the justice I could afford. The bigger the check! The more justice I could buy. You know what? After 20yrs on the street I found that many times he was right. I quit worrying about court decisions and started worryng about handling the problem at hand. The old saying of better to be tried by twelve than carried by six still has SOME merit.

PaulS · « **Reply #21 on:** July 30, 2006, 05:36:50 PM »

Dee,
You probably didn't walk or drive the same streets that I walked but I just want to say thank you for twenty years of service.
We joke a lot about cops but when it comes right down to it you and others like you dealt with the worst of society every day so that we didn't have to. Most of the time you kept your sense of humor when you heard the same lame lines that we use to justify speeding or getting drunk or getting into a fight. You treated us with more respect than we sometimes deserved, You and others like you did that every day for to little pay and not near enough respect from us.
Thanks, glad you made it!

covertcowboy · « **Reply #22 on:** August 17, 2006, 02:46:29 PM »

a wheel gun doesn't have as many springs that have to be compressed (weakened) over time for it to be ready

Dee · « **Reply #23 on:** August 17, 2006, 03:51:58 PM »

Lets see here. You have a main spring (sometimes refered to as a hammer spring, a trigger return spring, a cylinder hand spring, floating firing pin spring, a ejector rod spring (sometimes two depending on make) ,a cylinder stop spring, an ejector rod spring in the front of the rod shroud on the barrel, and if it has ajustable sights you have at least one spring in there. Hmmmmmmmm
That's nine sometimes 10 springs for a smith.
A 1911: You have a hammer spring, a slide recoil spring, a sear spring, a grip-safety spring, a fireing pin spring, a magazine release spring, a thumb saftey spring, and, and, and! Did I leave some out? That's just 7, should I count the magazine spring even though you change those out with each magazine? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Ok, now I've got it. A single action! You have rebounding firing pin spring (depending on the brand and age), a hammer spring, an ejector rod spring, a trigger sear spring, a cylinder rod retainer latch spring, a cylinder stop spring, a loading gate spring, and a cylinder hand spring. That's 8. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Oh, well.

kiddekop · « **Reply #24 on:** September 10, 2006, 07:15:26 PM »

I can carry two wheel guns and a bottom feeder which I'm proficient with.These tools are to protect my family members and myself from the people I dealt with for 3+ decades.

PaulS · « **Reply #25 on:** September 10, 2006, 08:16:47 PM »

Ruger revolvers have a real advantage! they use on spring to do multiple tasks like the hammer (main spring) and the triger return spring are the same spring.

williamlayton · « **Reply #26 on:** September 11, 2006, 12:04:02 AM »

A gun was built for one thing, to kill people.
I can see that as a good thought. I do not think that person thought of hunting though.
I do not see the thought of a weapon being designed to kill as a bad thing.
It is crtainly more efficent than a ball bat or kitchen knife.
Wonder why folks do not consider that killing can be as good a thing as dying.
Most killings do not involve a choice, that is not taking into account the number of incidences where the killee was able to move from harms way.
I find it difficult to put this subject in a box, all nice and tidy.
Blessings

Dee · « **Reply #27 on:** September 11, 2006, 02:18:38 AM »

A gun is not necessarily built for killing. It is built to do what ever is needed of it. It can be hunting, recreation, survival in a wilderness situation, a deterent against attack, and a response, to an attack. One should not paint with so broad a brush to say that the gun is for one thing. As to it's efficency being more so than the knife or the ball bat. I have seen these other two insturments used with great efficency. They merely require a closer proxemity to the recipient. I have seen much killing in a twenty year career of L.E. and since retired do not miss it. I once worked three such incidents in less than 10 hours, with neither of the three being related. Most of the victims were somewhere, where they should not have been, and pushed a bad situation too far. Not all mind you, some were totally innocent and unsuspecting. As to killing sometimes not being a bad thing. I have never experienced that feeling, even when in self-defense. There is nothing like the feeling of desolation, and foreboding even though you were justified. Philosophy is one thing. Experience is an entirely different matter. Relief beyond belief when you learn that both assailants will live, even though minutes before they tried to kill you.

williamlayton · « **Reply #28 on:** September 11, 2006, 12:28:29 PM »

Well, the thought is that is exactly what a gun, rifle, was designed for. The real purpose.
It is more efficent than a bat or knife, though they will get er done.
Killing will not stop and guns aare just a more efficent way.
Peace will not come on this earth until the Lord returns.
Defending ones ownself is OK.
Killing is the word most would shy from.
Killing has gone on from Genesis.
I am not in favor of it but I am in favor of it. (thankee festus).
Blessings

LEO · « **Reply #29 on:** September 12, 2006, 04:13:32 AM »

While the debate about revolver vs semi-auto has been going on for years, I don't believe there is a right answer. Given a good quality semi-auto and a good quaility revolver it all boils down to personal preference and the job at hand. I have carried both revolvers and semi-autos and like them both. The key factor is not the platform but the person manipulating the platform. The best weapons system in the world will not do you any good if you have not trained with it and are not familiar with it. I think it goes without saying that your ability to function changes drastically when large amounts of stress are introduced into the situation and a few rounds every couple of months on a nice range at a distinct stationary target is not the answer. As far as the safety of each platform is concerned, given quality firearms the safety of the system is totally dependent upon the user. I know of unintentional discharges with double action revolvers, single action revolvers, single and double action semi-autos. Incidentally most of the stoppages that I see with quality semi-autos, primarily 1911 types are due to the magazine, folks will pay 700 dollars or more for a handgun and then try to make it work with 5 dollar magazines, a quality gun, with quality magazines and ammunition is the only way to go if you choose a semi-auto to insure reliability. Also remember reliabilty is far more important than accuracy, all that is needed is sufficent accuracy to hit the target at hand and the target at hand in the question is a large one, usually at close range so 3 or 4 inch groups at 25 yards are not an issue.

What it all boils down to is make a personal choice, get a quality weapon, holsters, and accessories and train, train, train, and develop a mindset that you will use the weapon if you have to.