Author Topic: Get ready to pony up. (Read 3165 times)

Dusty Miller · « **on:** June 16, 2006, 01:14:39 AM »

Every person who cherishes his/her 2nd Amendment rights needs to start putting aside a stash for this next presidential election. If the Wicked Bitch of the East is nominated by the Demcrats its going to be time for us gun owners to start putting our money where our mouthes are. I got money in the bank and I plan on donating $1000 the day Hillary Klinton gets the Demo nomination and then follow up with more if the tide is turning the wrong way. If we can't find the muster to pony up against a monster like her then we ain't worth a bucket of warm spit.

WylieKy · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2006, 03:12:58 AM »

I really wish I could start voting for a candidate. I've never got to do it. I've alway had to vote against the democrat. The last President I would have voted for was Bush Sr, but I was too young. :grin:

WylieKy

Mikey · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2006, 03:59:54 AM »

Dusty - I would be willing to pony up with the rest of us who are of the same (and sane) mind, but I firmly believe there are two dumbocraps the national party will stay away from - one is the last loser and the other is the wicked bitch of the east. Both are poison to the dumbocraptic party and the party knows it. Herr Frau Von Klinton may have some support in the Harlem/Nue Yawk Sity area but not enough beyond that to make her a viable candidate. And she is now seen as an angry woman, thanks to Ann Coulter (thank you Annie).............

And Kerry - Nevermore quoth the raven, nevermore!

As Jeff Foxworthy says - I believe that if you have nothing good to say about someone you must be talking about hillary klinton.................. Mikey.

Bush Master · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2006, 05:15:06 AM »

Yea, what a great idea! Let's all pony up cash so the sheeple will elect another repugnant like Bush II. He told us during his campaign how he stands firmly behind the 2nd amendment then sold us down the river once in office. How about we all say enough is enough and elect a Libertarian or Consititutionalist instead of another socialist from the repugs or demons?

DWTim · « **Reply #4 on:** June 16, 2006, 05:26:07 AM »

Like WylieKy said, it'd sure be nice to vote for someone. Are there any conservative potential candidates at all?

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #5 on:** June 16, 2006, 09:19:17 AM »

It is in the nature of the political process that we, more often than not, have to hold our noses when we cast our ballot. Yeah, Bush has been a dissapointment to me but can you imagine what a BIGGER mess we'd be in if Kerry and the Democraps
had carried the day in the last election. They'd be SO busy passing anti-gun legislation they'd still be wondering what to do about 9-11! The political process is ALWAYS messy and nobody but the sheeple are ever happy with the way things are going but only a COMPLETE FOOL sits on the sidelines and and pouts because he isen't getting his way. The only real option is to stay involved, knowing you'll take your licks and face many disappointments. The alternative is political suicide. If we don't have the stomach for it you know the liberals always will, they relish it.

Bush Master · « **Reply #6 on:** June 16, 2006, 10:48:05 AM »

Sorry, Dusty, but I no longer buy into that fallacy. I refuse to hold my nose and vote for the"lesser of two evils", because evil is still evil. I don't see a nickel's worth of difference between Bush II and Kerry. And, I refuse to give any politician any credibility by participating in their version of three card Monty. A close look at Bush and Kerry reveal that both are Yale grads and Skull & Bones, both part of the privileged elite that are never held accountable for their actions, and both, if they had to rely on their own talents and intelligence, would be miserable failures. Bush ran companies into the ground and was rewarded by having cash shot at him through a fire hose. Kerry did it the old fashioned way and married money as he was too dull to have a career of his own. I, for one, am not sitting on the side lines and pouting. I am divorcing myself from the entire process and I will live my life as free as possible without encouraging these criminals by voting. Until people wake up and smell the tuna fish, we are going to continue our slide into a socialistic democracy. The only time I vote now is to oppose any tax increase that makes it onto the ballot. I posit that only a complete fool takes part in this charade and those who do have no right to criticize the outcome. Do you really think, in your heart of hearts, that you are going to get anywhere near restoring the Constitution by taking part in the electoral process as it is today? Voting for the same mind-numbingly stupid fools that appear on the ballot every fall? The definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over again and expecting different results. This is why the two parties love this kind of thing, if they can keep us fighting amongst ourselves and asking the wrong questions, they have no worries and can proceed with the destruction of America unimpeded.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #7 on:** June 16, 2006, 11:17:05 AM »

Quote from: Bush Master

Sorry, Dusty, but I no longer buy into that fallacy. I refuse to hold my nose and vote for the"lesser of two evils", because evil is still evil. I don't see a nickel's worth of difference between Bush II and Kerry. And, I refuse to give any politician any credibility by participating in their version of three card Monty. A close look at Bush and Kerry reveal that both are Yale grads and Skull & Bones, both part of the privileged elite that are never held accountable for their actions, and both, if they had to rely on their own talents and intelligence, would be miserable failures. Bush ran companies into the ground and was rewarded by having cash shot at him through a fire hose. Kerry did it the old fashioned way and married money as he was too dull to have a career of his own. I, for one, am not sitting on the side lines and pouting. I am divorcing myself from the entire process and I will live my life as free as possible without encouraging these criminals by voting. Until people wake up and smell the tuna fish, we are going to continue our slide into a socialistic democracy. The only time I vote now is to oppose any tax increase that makes it onto the ballot. I posit that only a complete fool takes part in this charade and those who do have no right to criticize the outcome. Do you really think, in your heart of hearts, that you are going to get anywhere near restoring the Constitution by taking part in the electoral process as it is today? Voting for the same mind-numbingly stupid fools that appear on the ballot every fall? The definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over again and expecting different results. This is why the two parties love this kind of thing, if they can keep us fighting amongst ourselves and asking the wrong questions, they have no worries and can proceed with the destruction of America unimpeded.

I feel the exact same way.........I've always voted republican.....you don't know how disapointed I am..........

Neither party deserves, nor will get, my vote.....I'm going to vote libertarian this time......

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #8 on:** June 16, 2006, 09:09:46 PM »

Anybody who can't see any difference between Bush and Kerry should definitely stay WAY CLEAR of any political issues.

Hey, I haven't gotten every thing I wanted or expected from Bush, not by a long shot. But I'm here to tell ya that if Kerry and the Democraps had been in control the last 7 years we'd've been reduced to single shot rifles limited to .22 caliber by now. Politics is messy guys, and if you're afraid to deal with the mess then you lose big time.

nabob · « **Reply #9 on:** June 16, 2006, 09:19:02 PM »

We didn't lose the freedoms associated with private gun ownership. However, we lost other freedoms under the Patriot Act.

In that respect, Republicans and Democrats are a toss-up. Each focuses on different freedoms they wish to deprive us of. Both, though, are in the business of taking freedom away, in my view.

I don't vote for either major party candidate. I find someone I like (mostly) from the third party candidates out there.

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2006, 06:49:06 AM »

And just HOW MANY of those third party candidates were elected and how many of THOSE ever got into a position to influence policy? Third party politics in the US is a joke and those who buy into them are deluded (politically speaking). When you vote for third party candidates you are basically taking yourself out of the political process, you're sitting on the bench. The truth of the matter is that people who have even a SMALL influence on the political process have to have a stomach for the sweat and grit of the struggle. Politics is a lot like rugby in that regard, ya gotta get down there and push with all your might to just hold your ground and then make a super effort to gain ground. It ain't pretty, it ain't glorious, but that's the way it works.

FWiedner · « **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2006, 06:20:19 PM »

What do they call it when you repeatedly do the same thing and continue to expect a different result?

Why is it a considered a wasted vote when you cast a ballot for a candidate in the slim hope of facilitaing a change, but it's considered participating in the animated contest of politics when you cast a ballot for a candidate knowing full well that he will never make an effort to do a damned thing that you believe in?

Republicans have had effective control of this nation for 12 years. Under that stewardship, serious damage has been done to every single article of the Bill of Rights.

America is not better off than before the Republicans took control of all 3 branches of the federal government. Truth be told, America is considerably less free.

The only thing that stopped the Democrats from doing the same thing was that they weren't in control.

When is it going to sink in that there is no difference between these two political factions? They are both filled to capacity with traitorous dogs intent on seeing this nation destroyed.

A reasonable man cannot but conclude that anyone who supports these parties, either deliberately or through sheer ignorance, has the same goal.

These parties must be dismantled and destroyed. Officers of government who owe loyalty to, or who adhere to those political philosophies, must be removed from office and forbidden to engage in any public service ever again (unless someone is needed to die for their country).

The Republican and Democratic parties are destroying America.

:evil:

victorcharlie · « **Reply #12 on:** June 18, 2006, 02:32:15 AM »

I couldn't have said it better FW.........

What's really suprising to me is how willing people are to allow the government to decide what's best for them......or how willing they are to keeping electing someone who doesn't have there best interest at heart.

I really thought when the Republicans got control of the Whitehouse, Senate and House of Representatives that they would use that power in a positive way.......then, right out of the box, Bush cuts a deal with non other than Teddy Kennedy.......

Rather than restoring rights to the citizens, we loose more every day......sneak and peek searches.....no knock searches........illegal wire taps which the supreme court says are "legal".......special interest money rules.......you can't disipiline your children for fear the government will take them.......not my idea of freedom and liberty.....

Per Karl Marx defination of socialism, the 10 planks of the Communist Manafesto, we are, and have been for some time, a socialist country.

Knowing that, I can't in good conscience vote for more of the same.

Fire them all..........and lets start fresh.......

The only way to do that is though the ballot box and with a third party candidate........Seems the libertarians think more along the lines that I do, but I intend to look into the constutionalist party as well.......

Hopefully, the first thing they'll do is get us out of the UN.......and send the chumps some where else......

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2006, 09:08:36 AM »

OK, tune in, turn on, and drop out!

nabob · « **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2006, 11:28:06 PM »

I'd suggest that is exactly what people who decide to vote for people they don't agree with are doing, Dusty.

Mikey · « **Reply #15 on:** June 19, 2006, 02:17:25 AM »

We could be in China, where you have absolutely no rights at all, not even to citch about it. Then you would see how people like kommisar klinton, kerry or gore would treat your 'what'? (constitutional rights - my butt).

Everybody has a bitch about something. 'He' didn't work his way up - what politician ever has. 'He' didn't do 'it' the way I wanted him to do it. This two party system sucks.........

'They' are all priviledged - what the hell do ya expect, another indignant, gutless little strutting truman - you can rename them gore, klinton and kerry. You could always have gotten perot and then had the country run internally by a bunch of dissatisfied ex-sf.

And let us not forget where the hay you live that allows you to bitch like this. Do you really think you could do this in china - you would be dead by now, stretched out in front of your burned house with your wife and children. Give it a break!

If you don't like it, change it, that's what the 'vote' is for.

But let's understand that all politicians 'owe' somebody - in fact, they owe everybody, and it is never the little guy, it is always another politician.

G.W has abused your 1st Amendment rights, try McCain/Feingold as the worst abuser so far.

2nd Amendment - it's an individual right, signed into public law by G. W. Do you really think any of the losing party would have given you that. No, we would all be wearing beards and burkas and praying to Islam if they had gotten into office.

Enough already. It ain't perfect, but it is the best around. Try Canada, the land of elected dictatorship if you want 'rights'. Mikey.

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #16 on:** June 19, 2006, 05:57:16 AM »

Yeah, that's what I don't understand. People think we're living in a "perfect" society or what? There are a thousand and one excuses for bugging out but that's all they are, excuses. Boy, I sure don't like a lot of things about our political system but voting for a sure loser as a way of protesting is pure out and out silliness to the nth degree. If you can't settle for half a loaf rather than no loaf at all ya ain't gonna have a sandwich for lunch! Don't get me wrong, I suffer from disenchantment as much as the next person but I'd rather be in the batter's box taking my swings rather than sitt'n on the bench with no chance at all of getting on base. Babe Ruth struck out a lot but that didn't keep him from swinging that bat like crazy the next time he was up.

WylieKy · « **Reply #17 on:** June 19, 2006, 06:38:37 AM »

I understand both sides. I am sick and tired of the direction the country is taking. I DO NOT want to vote Republican, much less Democrat. I know that voting 3rd party is wasting a vote at this point in our history. However, if my house was burning and was beyond salvage, I'd still throw a bucket of water on it. And I'd keep throwing until there was nothing else left or the fire was out. I think I'm going Libertarian too. They are not perfect, but are mostly in line with how I think the government should be run.

WylieKy

nabob · « **Reply #18 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:37:53 AM »

The essence of democracy is voting for the person of your choice. If for you that means voting for one of the larger party candidates, fine. Don't make my choices for me, though, please. I'll make my own.

I think it is silliness to the nth degree to vote strictly on the basis of who might win as opposed to whom you would like to see run this country. If we all voted for whomever we liked, as opposed to whom we think might win, we might actually see some sort of positive changes.

WylieKy · « **Reply #19 on:** June 20, 2006, 02:56:26 AM »

Ok, I'm amused. When I got to work today and read the news, it appears the country knows exactly who they DO NOT want to vote for. By about 3 to 1. It is a poll of potential 2008 presidential candidates, Klinton, Kerry, Giuliani, McCain, etc.... The definitely not votes for all candidates run from 45%-63%, the definitely would votes from 9%-22%. That speaks rather eloquently to me.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/19/poll.presidential/index.html

WyleKy

victorcharlie · « **Reply #20 on:** June 20, 2006, 04:32:14 AM »

I look at it as two different kinds of poison.......both kill you slowly, but one more slowly than the other........

One thing I remember someone telling me is that when you realize you've dug yourself into a hole, the first thing you got to stop doing is digging......

It is true that in the past, (speaking of the little general) a third party vote has not had good results, but hopefully, this time, the people have taken notice of the freedoms they've lost and won't vote for more of the same......

The contract with america has been breached.........nothing but double talk....

Fool me once shame on you......fool me twice.....shame on me!

I know of no other way to send a clearer message to those in Washington than to change them out.......and give someone else a chance to serve the common man.......This is what Jefferson and Madison had in mind when Madison wrote and sold the idea of a Federal government.....

The thing they feared the most was the the federal government would assume to much power......In my humble opinion.......they don't have to much power, they have all the power......

Casull · « **Reply #21 on:** June 20, 2006, 08:31:35 AM »

The problem with a third party vote is not that it is a waste of a vote, but that it is a vote for the Democraps. Besides, if everyone voted for the person that was going to give them 100% of what they wanted, the next president would be the guy who got 2 votes. No, I'm not happy with everything Bush has done (certainly not the immigration issue), but at least I can now buy a large cap mag. And yes, a democracy is about being able to vote for whoever you want, but an effective democracy is about voting for the best viable candidate. As for all this BS about the freedoms we have lost under Bush, I challenge someone to name one, and I mean a real one. I know that I have not lost any, unless you mean the right to make covert calls to Al Quada. Come on, get real. Personally, I know that I am not important enough for the government to have any interest in me, unless the Democraps win and get their way, in which case they might knock on my door to liberate me of my guns. As to the surveillance of domestic calls to foreign countries, I want the government tracking down those bastards and killing every one of them. Anyway, Mikey and Dusty are right. If I can't get everything I want, I'll take everything I can get. That certainly won't happen voting for sure losers, or spending my time deluding myself into thinking that the government is out to get me. Come on guys, take off the tin foil hats and lets have a beer.

Bush Master · « **Reply #22 on:** June 20, 2006, 09:55:34 AM »

Oh yea, we could be in China, or we could be in the old USSR or we could be on one of Saturn's moons but we're not, we are here in the USA. I don't follow your so called point on this one Mikey. Why are you trying to counter our arguments with an absurdity? Who cares what happens in China? That's for the Chinese to deal with, not us. That is a specious argument and makes you look foolish. Can't you come up with anything more to the point?

Where do you get the idea that we think we are living in a perfect society Dusty? Not one post I read in this topic even mentioned living in a perfect society. Some of us are able to recognize that the system is broken and needs repair before the whole thing is trash canned. We see what our beloved republic is becoming, we don't like it and we want to fix it.

Casull, you are the reason the average person in the US is referred to as Joe six pack, you obviously believe in the saying, "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to be afraid of. Tell that to all of the innocent people killed in no knock raids on the wrong address.

So, Dusty, Mikey, Casull, keep drinking your beer and voting repug and we'll watch as the republic goes down on the ash heap of history. Let me ask all of you this though; if you break you leg, do you just crack open another beer and hope for the best? If your car needs brakes, do you keep driving, hoping you will be able to stop when you need to? Of course you don't! I would hope that when a problem comes up, you fix it ASAP. Why don't you feel the same way about your home?

Casull · « **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2006, 10:20:48 AM »

Bush Master, as soon as one of these guys offers a workable solution, I'll consider it. But, voting third party to get where I think we all want to be, is like trying to empty the ocean with a bucket. It may make you think you are accomplishing something, but all you're doing is wasting time. If I sound like Joe Sixpack, I'm glad to hear that. I was worried that 19 years of formal education and a law degree might have relieved me of my common sense. I see that neither you, nor any of the other writers here, have been killed in one of those wrong address drug busts. Do those things happen? Of course they do, but they are no more caused by Bush or all these lost freedoms I keep hearing about, than murders are caused by guns. Nothing of this world is perfect, and accidents do happen. Again, neither I nor likely anyone writing here, has anything to worry about. You have a greater chance of being struck by lightning. We simply aren't important enough to generate any interest by the government. I simply don't see Bush or Cheney spending any time listening to any of our calls. I do however see an administration that has lowered my tax bill, and under which I may once again purchase an "assault weapon".

WylieKy · « **Reply #24 on:** June 20, 2006, 12:22:43 PM »

I personally do not have a specific problem with the no knock issue, or even the wiretaping. It is, however, like the Brady bill, a beginning. I do not have, nor do I have any interest in owning an assult weapon or high capacity clip for my 1911. I'm not against them, just not my thing as I would prefer to spend my fun money on hunting equipment. I guess that since it did not affect me, I should have not been against it??? I don't think so. The problem I have with these issues is that they are a beginning. A foothold if you will to issues that are dear to me. And don't think I blame Bush or the Republicans, as the Democrats would have done the same or worse. Nor would I prefer to live in China. I do think that there is a problem in our country and would like to see it fixed. The problem is that the Republicans and Democrats (as an entity, not individuals) are loyal to themselves, not the people. As they have an effective monopoly on politics, they are merely concerned with the perpetuation of their own power as a whole, not what is best for the country. Since there are only two choices, everyone picks the one that hurts them less, instead of helps them more. The above poll shows that.

WylieKy

dukkillr · « **Reply #25 on:** June 20, 2006, 01:40:33 PM »

Quote

Bush Master, as soon as one of these guys offers a workable solution, I'll consider it. But, voting third party to get where I think we all want to be, is like trying to empty the ocean with a bucket. It may make you think you are accomplishing something, but all you're doing is wasting time. If I sound like Joe Sixpack, I'm glad to hear that. I was worried that 19 years of formal education and a law degree might have relieved me of my common sense. I see that neither you, nor any of the other writers here, have been killed in one of those wrong address drug busts. Do those things happen? Of course they do, but they are no more caused by Bush or all these lost freedoms I keep hearing about, than murders are caused by guns. Nothing of this world is perfect, and accidents do happen. Again, neither I nor likely anyone writing here, has anything to worry about. You have a greater chance of being struck by lightning. We simply aren't important enough to generate any interest by the government. I simply don't see Bush or Cheney spending any time listening to any of our calls. I do however see an administration that has lowered my tax bill, and under which I may once again purchase an "assault weapon".

Very good post. It seems like this argument keeps cycling back. There are those who subscribe to the idea that to not participate in a meaningful way is, somehow, going to bring about change. I don't agree with them, but to each their own.

I especially liked the statement:

Quote

I see that neither you, nor any of the other writers here, have been killed in one of those wrong address drug busts. Do those things happen? Of course they do, but they are no more caused by Bush or all these lost freedoms I keep hearing about, than murders are caused by guns. Nothing of this world is perfect, and accidents do happen.

I'm also an attorney, and damned if I know one of those people either. I don't even remember hearing about such a case. The problem is that the farther these stories get removed from reality, the better they travel among the internet community.

As someone with actual, formal, legal education, you probably roll your eyes much like I do at some of the indignant claims made online about "rights" and how they've been stripped. If people spent half as much time learning the reality of constitutional law as they spend writing wild-eyed posts our rights would be far more safe. Unfortunately what too many people learn about Con Law comes from other wild-eyed writers and fringe publications, giving the reader just enough knowledge to be dangerous. Ever wonder how many SCOTUS opinions they've actually read? For something often claimed to be so important, honest knowledge is usually lacking.

To each their own in voting, if a legitimate third party libertarian comes along I'll vote for him. The important part of that statement is legitimate. Otherwise I'll try my best to vote for the guy who's least likely to take my money and redistribute it with social programs. Sometimes I'll be wrong, but I'll always try my best.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #26 on:** June 20, 2006, 04:02:31 PM »

So....your an attorney and never heard of a single case....

Well I'm just a poor old dumb county boy.......and here's a case for you:

From the Nashville Tennessean:

By Warren Duzak / Staff Writer

LEBANON (TN) - About 10 p.m. Wednesday, John Adams, 64, settled into his tan recliner to watch television for the last time, his cane within easy reach.

At the moment outside Adams' door, Lebanon
police officers Kyle Shedran, 25, and Greg Day, 24, stood armed and prepared for the worst.

In the darkness, five to seven other officers were there for backup.

Shedran and Day knocked. Adams' wife, Loriane, 61, moved to the door.

In the next moment, everyone's lives changed forever, victims of a horrendous mistake.

Day and Shedran were at the wrong house and knocking on the wrong door.

"It was a severe, costly mistake," Lebanon Police Chief Billy Weeks said at an afternoon news conference yesterday. "They were not the target of our investigation. We hate that it happened."

By then John Adams had been dead more than 12 hours, shot to death by Shedran and Day after, they said, Adams shot at them with a sawed-off shotgun.

Friends and relatives said John Adams believed it was a home invasion when police kicked in the door after refusing to identify themselves.

"They made a mistake, and he was trying to defend his home, and they shot him," said Edward Bell, Adams' nephew.

Others were not prepared to offer even a hint of understanding.

"They murdered my best friend," said former Wilson County Commissioner Natchel Palmer. "They got the wrong damn house and killed my friend."

Police details of what happenned in the Adams' house at 70 Joseph St. were sketchy. Weeks said he has called in the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation to conduct the investigation.

Even the arrest warrant, which had the right address but the wrong description of the home, is in TBI possession, Weeks said.

Loriane Adams' explanation has been filtered through relatives.

"I don't want to go through it again," she said yesterday, sitting on the front deck of her home, surrounded by friends and family, all angry with the police.

"He believed in the system, and the system let him down," said Star Moore, sister of the dead man.

Bell said his aunt told him police knocked but would not identify themselves when she asked who they were.

They knocked again, and she asked again who it was.

Then they broke down the door, handcuffed Loriane Adams and went around the corner where John Adams sat and shot him several times, Bell said. Family members deny Adams shot at police.

Investigators had cut out a large chunk from one wall in the house as proof.

Police were looking for someone living in the house next door, the only other home on the short street.

Residents there refused to allow a reporter on the property yesterday.

Weeks said the intended house was known to police. It had been under police surveillance and a drug purchase had been made from one of the residents, he said. That was the basis for the warrant.
..... and there is more ....
____________________________

So, now you've heard of a "single case".......

Check out the local discussion thread at Nashville Digest:
http://nashville.citydigest.com/news.ez?viewStory=9532

dukkillr · « **Reply #27 on:** June 20, 2006, 06:22:45 PM »

I didn't question that it happened. Terrible, bizzare things happen every day to good people. Humans will never be perfect, that's not an excuse, but it is a fact.

This case apparently is several years old. While one every 6 years is terrible, I suspect you're more likely to be killed by a falling piano. I'm positive you're more likely to be killed by a bee sting or peanut allergy.

The rest of what I wrote was what I thought was the important part...

btw, that link doesn't work, at least it doesn't work for me.

Epilogue:

Quote

In October 2000, DRCNet reported on a rash of police killings during drug raids gone bad. Among them was the case of John Adams, 62, a black resident of Lebanon, TN, who was shot and killed by a police SWAT team raiding the wrong house on October 4 of that year. After masked officers burst into his home, Adams fired a shotgun at the intruders before they shot and killed him as his wife Lorine, 72, looked on in disbelief.

Lebanon Police Lt. Steve Nokes, head of the town's narcotics unit, was fired from the police department and indicted on charges of criminal responsibility for reckless homicide, tampering or fabricating evidence and aggravated perjury. He was acquitted of all charges in June 2001.

But the Lebanon Daily Times reported on May 24 that the city of Lebanon will pay at least $400,000 to Lorine Adams. She has received a lump sum payment of $200,000 and will receive $1,675 per month for the rest of her life. If she lives 15 years, the total pay-out would reach more than half a million dollars. The city also paid John Adams' medical bills of $45,000 and funeral expenses of $5,804. The city's insurance carrier will pay for the settlement. No word yet on Lebanon's new insurance rates.

CyberSniper · « **Reply #28 on:** June 20, 2006, 06:27:08 PM »

By golly, what a mess....
Anyway, let's say a third party candidate somehow made it to
the White House. Could we reasonably expect them to get anything done,
seeing as how the odds are the Congress would still be filled
with "the usual suspects"? I think not.
Can we resonably expect the entire population of this county to elect
third party types to the Congress as well as the Presidency ?
I think not, at least for the foreseeable future.
The government exists to perpetuate itself and the status quo more
than anything nowadays. The system is not perfect by any means, and
yet it still looks better than many other countries by comparison to me.
Yes, the whole deal is a real can of worms.
And then there's the U.N., which is a whole other nightmare waiting
to happen...
Generally speaking, the planet has the best politicians money can buy.
< cough, cough >

WylieKy · « **Reply #29 on:** June 21, 2006, 06:24:39 AM »

Newton's First Law of Motion:

I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

I may not be a lawyer (thank God), but I do know that if nothing is done to change the course this country is taking, we will soon hear the barbarians at the gate. Just like Rome. In the space of two or three decades we have gone from the patriarch of the free world to the rich but perverted uncle, and the pace of that degradation is increasing exponentially. I don't think this is, or any I have read in this subject, are wild-eyed posts. Open eyed posts, yes. I simply want to vote for a candidate, not against the opposition. If the Republicans can find someone that fits the bill, I will vote for them. I don't think that is so much to ask. Seems like out of a nation of about 296,000,000 there ought to be at least 1 or two people worth voting for president and 500-600 worthy of the House and Senate. I might be wrong.

WylieKy[/i]