Author Topic: Advice new rifle (Read 1163 times)

Old Moss · « **on:** June 18, 2006, 08:39:04 AM »

:? Folks I need a little help. I'm looking at buying a new blackpowder rifl;e for alaska moose. I can't get the info I need. I'm looking at both the Foxridge custom renegades and the Lyman deerstalker stainless steel. I want a rugged traditional muzzle loader. Strong enough for heavy enough loads for moose. 54cal of course. I like the stainless steel option of lyman but really trust TCs 120 grain capable renegade. Are there any other options?? :? Can I load the Lyman heavy enough? I had a renegade once But like a young'en I traded it. Shoot Lyman great plains now with a 1-60 twist roundball not adequate for moose plus I can't get over 90grs of powder in the GPs without pressure signs. Help!!!

By the way I hate new wave inlines They just don't seem right when going blackpowder, my Mountain Man ancestors just roll over in thier graves when I look at one. Thanks Old Moss

lonewolf5348 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2006, 09:42:31 AM »

I would say lyman Lyman deerstalker or the lyman trade model are excellent m/l I have a buddie of mine that has the trade model in 54 cal and has excellent results driving RB with heavy charges using goex 3f powder.I would also say an excellent choice would be to go on e bay and purchase a complete renegade stock,then purchase a GM barrel in 54 or even 58 cal with a 1 in 70 twist.
I own 2 flinters early model from t/c 50 cal hawkens and a Renegade in 54 cal.both shoot excellent with goex 3f a wad under the ball ,my powder charges run between 90 to 100 grains of powder.

Old Moss · « **Reply #2 on:** June 18, 2006, 03:10:23 PM »

lonewolf5348

Thanks but I guess I did not make my self clear, What I'm looking for is a Traditional sidelock muzzleloader that shoots conicals or sabotted bulletts well with 90 to 100+ grains of 2fg black powder. roundball won't work on moose and bear as well. TC made my perfect choice in the Black Mountain Magnum, 50 cal stainless steel, and would take charges up to 150 grains. But TC stopped making it. Wonder why??? this seems the perfect traditional hunter. Someone sure is missing out on a great design. TC also made a stainless hawken the "Couger" stopped making it. WHY?

So who makes the best hunting mussleloader for alaska now a days?

Old Moss

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2006, 03:25:45 PM »

Cabelas sells their Hunter Hawken in either a 1:48" or 1:24", I had a 1:24" carbine which shot 100gr loads of 2f Goex w/350g-400gr sabots and conicals real good. The only modification I made to it was a Lyman 57SML peep sight. They don't indicate it now, but those I had, 3 of em actually, one for me, dad and my son, had chrome lined bores.

Tim

Cabela's Hunter Hawken

dodd3 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 19, 2006, 05:03:40 AM »

Old Moss what do you mean by pressure signs lyman list the .54 plains at a load of 110 of ff or 90 of fff for the 450 grn maxi. why not get the great plains hunter it has a faster 1 in 32 twist that will shoot a maxi or a mini very well,are you still using the nipple that was fitted to your gun if you are get a new nipple like a hot shot nipple or the "ampco nipple layman guns are made in italy by investarms co all italian guns each and every one made are proof tested at the itlian nationl proof house it is the law there, so the max that layman list is ok to use.in my pedersoli tryon riffle 32" barrel with 110 of ff and a 430 grn mini it is dooing 1590 fps for a muzzel energy of 2414.4522 foot pounds plenty of big game have bin taken with similar loads. go on to the layman web site and click on black powder and scroll down till you see Instructions Click Here, its in acrobat reader and just scroll down till you see the load table .hope this helps.
bernie

KY Ratshooter · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2006, 06:54:35 AM »

If you are getting "preasure signs" you probably are not shooting a traditional muzzloader. What are your preasure signs?

Your shoulder will give out long before you "overload" a GPR!

Manufacturers produce what sells. Traditional shooters usually want traditional materials in their guns. People wanting stainless fast twist barrels and plastic stocks have usually abandoned the obsolete technology and gone to in-lines.

Call Green Mountain, they will provide a replacement barrel at your specs.

flintlock · « **Reply #6 on:** June 20, 2006, 08:43:17 AM »

If you want to shoot conicals, I would opt for a .50...Loaded with 90-110 grs FF, it will take care of anything in North America...

You might want to reconsider a .54 round ball gun...It is fully capable of killing elk, moose and bears, including grizzlys...The first year I took the Longhunter Society Record book, the top grizzly was killed with a .54 and 120 FF...Loaded with a patched round ball...Range was about 100 yards and the ball passed through both lungs and was found behind the skin on the off side...The bear ran 50 yards or so and fell over.

simonkenton · « **Reply #7 on:** June 20, 2006, 10:59:55 AM »

Get that Kodiak Express double rifle from Cabelas for $799.
I bet a .715 round ball will kill a moose.
I hear those are pretty nice rifles.

Landngroove · « **Reply #8 on:** June 20, 2006, 01:02:36 PM »

I would go with the T/C Renegade. Don't get me wrong, the Lyman Deerstalker is a fine ML, I own both, Renegade, and Deerstalker, in .54. The differences being, the sights, the Deerstalker's rear sight leaves something to be desired. The Lyman peep is a huge upgrade. The Renegade standard sights are O.K. , Fox Ridge will install a T/C peep, or fiber optics if you want an upgrade. The Renegade has a set trigger. Once you adjust this to your liking you will be glad you have it. The Deerstalker has a single trigger. T/C ML's are made in America, have an iron clad lifetime warrantee, and T/C has great customer service. The Lyman Deerstalker is made in Italy by Investarm. One year warrantee. The Renegade has a 26" barrel, and the Deerstalker has a 24" barrel. I find these to be the major differences between the two. I don't shoot conicals in either, I shoot PRB's. Both give good accuracy. Both have a 1 in 48" twist, which will shoot conicals, and roundballs. Stainless, or blue? Stainless will corrode, and pit if not properly maintained. I treat all my guns the same, stainless, or blue. Cleaned after every shooting session, wiped down after a day's hunt. So stainless, or blue is aestetic for me. Hope this helps with your decision.

sharps4590 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 20, 2006, 01:26:47 PM »

You don't want a traditional muzzleloader. You want a muzzleloader that looks traditional and performs as a modern in-line. Do one or the other. The old saying that goes "if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck", ain't necessarily so anymore.

There is no animal on the face of the earth that hasn't been successfully taken with a round ball. If you need more "oomph", get a bigger bore. That's what your ancestor's "the old mountain men" did. You certainly don't want to disturb their eternal sleep. I believe it was Sealous who actually preferred round balls for elephant. I'd bet elephant are a bit more difficult to kill than moose, even the Alaska/Yukon moose.

If you want to be traditional and shoot conicals, get a Zouave or rifled musket and shoot a Minie' ball. That's traditional.

Vic

Old Moss · « **Reply #10 on:** June 20, 2006, 04:38:44 PM »

:grin: Thanks Gents, you all gave good honest advice. Sharps4590 your absolutly right, I want my cake and eat it too. Sometimes it helps when someone gives you a good outside opinion. Thanks. Well guess I have a lot to think about will let you all know when I decide. Thanks again for all the advice. Old Moss

captchee · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2006, 02:50:47 AM »

im with sharps on this one .
a 54 will do the job fine and with a round ball . grizz i wouldnt know about but i would bet with a ball placed into the boiler room , it would be done to .
i cant really add more then what sharps already said , go bigger if you like to say a 60.
or find a conical that will shoot consistently through your current rifle .

i shoot a 54 long rifle in flint with an iron barrel . for bull elk here in the canyons of Idaho ,i use a conical of hollow base and 436 grains . Through my slow twist barrel it will hold a pie plate group at 100 . But ranges being closer its better . I would seriously doubt you will have much problem getting well under that range on moose .

myself i wouldnt be conserned with the roundball of 54 or bigger for moose . do your part and place the shot , the world will turn .

Also while your charges are not extreme you might take a look at the Lyman ballistics charts for BP .
They might just give you some more to think about .
The heavyest charge I have used for bull elk was 100 grains of 3 F behind the above conical . That isnt for more power but for best grouping .
Cows elk , mule deer , bear my load is 80 grains of 3F and I have only 2 times not had complete pass through with a RB.
Heavy powder charges is another myth that follow into the modern inline firearms . While there is documentation in diaries of large charges being used in many plains rifles . If a person duplicates those he often finds much of the powder being expelled .
You will see this in the lyman charts .
Anyway good luck , do your part and your rifle will do its

Slamfire · « **Reply #12 on:** June 22, 2006, 08:39:08 PM »

Who told you the round ball wasn't usful on moose or bear?

smokepolehall · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2006, 08:28:28 AM »

Hey my friend looking fer a nice traditional ML, check out Action Arms on internet they have some new old stock at decent prices. I picked up a brand new still in the box with all papers and warranty 50 cal/ Greyhawk fer $230 including shipping and it was SS model.