Author Topic: Lee collet dies and necksizing-what am I doing wrong? (Read 816 times)

bluebayou · « **on:** June 24, 2006, 07:44:46 PM »

I have temporarily given up on the Lee neck sizing dies. I tried with 223 and 270 Win dies. The first 223 tries seated loose. I figured that I was not using enough force and the next batch of 223 came out fine. I cannot for the life of me get the 270 resized enough to give any tension in the neck. The bullet will slid into the case without any real pressure.

I neck sizing dies cleaned up the brand new brass really well, I will give them that.

I DID try necksize, 1/2 turn, necksize too. That didn't help. I have been full length sizing for a year so I can always stick with it....it's just nagging at me though. What am I doing wrong? What do I do with 20 "necksized" and primed cases too?

mountainview · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2006, 08:17:02 PM »

Suspect that you might need to screw the dies in a bit more, that should solve the lack of tension. You can also remove the decapping pin and "renecksize" the primed cases to get the tension needed. I've had to do this in the past once or twice. I've never had a primer pop doing this but nonetheless I like to wear ear and eye protection just the same.

steve4102 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2006, 01:46:11 AM »

The fact that the Lee Collet Die does not provide you with enough neck tension is most likely the mandrel and not your die set-up. This is a very well know issue with these dies. I have 4 Lee Collet Dies and everyone of them had less than desirable neck tension. There are two ways you can fix the problem. The first is to chuck your mandrels into a drill and with some fine sand paper turn them down to the desired diameter. The next is to contact Lee and order their "Reduced Mandrel" for your specific caliber. They cost about $5.

Good Luck.

rickyp · « **Reply #3 on:** June 25, 2006, 03:54:25 AM »

I have found if you screw the die down a few turns more, to the point your press starts to cam over works well, I also run the shell in the die then lower it and turn the case about 1/2 turn and runu it back in.

JD11 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 25, 2006, 01:00:59 PM »

Well, this is all re-assuring, I was about to order their 22-250 collet die. With this thread, and my other night's experience, I've about stepped, no, made a giant leap over to Jerkface11's side of the fence regarding his post and opinion about Lee stuff:

Quote

Frustrating hard to use non user friendly equipment is NOT a good way to get into reloading. If you're still using the lee safety scale i feel sorry for you. Try a real scale sometime and see what i mean.

I ordered their update kit for my turret press. The new ram wouldn't begin to fit into my press, I finally ended up reaming out the press ram hole with an automotive brake wheel cylinder hone to provide clearance. The new powder measure reservoir is a big improvement over the easily stripped- out two sheet metal screws into plastic (brilliant idea, drop the dispenser from anything over 4" and you've cracked the screw hole). With 99% of the rifle calibers, you double up on the measuring discs, but of course Lee sees fit not to include long enough screws to stack discs. You don't just run down to Napa, etc, and expect them to stock 1 3/4" or 2" long tiny #6 machine screws. All I could find was 1 1/2" long so it'll have about 2-3 threads holding the thing on if I'm lucky---just great. Can't beat looking forward to an update to make things easier, then you spend until 1:30AM cobbling it up so you can get it to half-way work. Those Hornady's and others are looking better all the time.

jack19512 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 25, 2006, 02:20:41 PM »

Not sure what your problem is but I reload for the .223, 8mm, 7.62x54r, and the 7.5x55 Swiss and I am not having a bit of trouble with my neck tension.

Now I did have a small problem about two weeks ago and was buckling the cases when I tried to neck size them. I buckled about 5 of them and I was about to throw my dies in the garbage. Believe me, I called Lee some names I won't repeat on here. Some of the guys on here can be quite convincing in their belief about Lee equipment.

But I finally figured out what I was doing wrong. I have the 4 hole turret press and I had forgotten to change to the proper dies. Hey, I said I was new to reloading and anyone can make a mistake. :-D

jack19512 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 25, 2006, 02:26:09 PM »

JD11

Before you take a hammer to your Lee stuff or just throw it in the garbage I will pay for shipping if you would send it to me. I promise I will be good to it and give it a good home.

jack19512 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 25, 2006, 05:07:09 PM »

bluebayou

You got my curiosity up so I took a fired 223 case and took a bullet to see how loose the bullet to case fit was without sizing and once inserted into the case if allowed the bullet would drop into the case by it's own weight.

I wanted to see just how tight the fit would be after neck sizing so after sizing the neck trying as I may I could not get the bullet into the case by hand.

I really don't know how tight the fit should be after neck sizing but I would think this should be sufficient. I urge you to not get out of heart with your dies as there may be a simple solution to your problem.

There could be a manufacturing defect with your 270 die which could easily be remedied. It could happen with any brand.

JD11 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 26, 2006, 04:23:27 AM »

Quote

Before you take a hammer to your Lee stuff or just throw it in the garbage I will pay for shipping if you would send it to me. I promise I will be good to it and give it a good home

Jack19512, I'll remember that, I don't know what I'm going to do yet. Up until the other night I've been real satisfied with the Lee Turret other than the powder reservoir screws, etc. I really don't load enough at one time to require a faster progressive but one would be nice to have. I might just end up springing for the new Lee Classis Turret Press, guys have posted that they're real happy with it and if I remember right, it's not too spendy.

Bluebayou, sorry for drifting from your original topic.

Quote

I wanted to see just how tight the fit would be after neck sizing so after sizing the neck trying as I may I could not get the bullet into the case by hand.

Jack19512, I'd be interested to know if you were using the collet neck sizing die or the regular Lee sizing die?? I use the regular sizing die, backed off to neck size only and it works just fine. However, I'd like to get the collet because you don't have to use case lube. It's only $16.49 (22-250) from Midway.

jack19512 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2006, 04:44:43 AM »

I have the collet neck sizer.

JD11 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2006, 06:01:14 AM »

Thank you, I appreciate the information.

jerkface11 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 26, 2006, 01:50:34 PM »

I've had too many negative experiences with lee products lately. Sizing dies not made to the right spec. Sizing dies breaking on the first use. Lee insisting that I pay the shipping to return the faulty merchandise to them so they can send me a new one. I've found it less frustrating and more cost efective to simply buy the more expensive products from other manufacturers.

Bad Irv · « **Reply #12 on:** June 26, 2006, 03:14:03 PM »

bluebayou, I've used the Lee Collet neck sizing dies for a few years now, and I love 'em. I've never had a problem with the neck tension not being tight enough. I've even pulled bullets that were loaded in cases that were sized with these dies, and they didn't pull any easier than other rifle rounds that I've pulled bullets from. If your press cams over, adjust the die down two full turns so that it won't cam over. If your press has a positive stop, ajust the die down far enough so that the ram doesn't come to the stop. You have to use quite a bit of force with these dies, the instructions say 25 lbs. min. You may have just gotten a bad one, it happens I guess. All the guys that I know who use these dies really like them. I hope you get it figured out.

Irv

bluebayou · « **Reply #13 on:** June 27, 2006, 04:14:39 PM »

Well, I will try to load some more with the 270 on my day off tomorrow. I appreciate all of the advice about adjusting around the cam-over point. I think that I will try screwing in the die a bit. I am using PLENTY of force. The 223 works fine with sufficient force. I will mike the mandrel and see how big it actually is.

Big thanks on the tip to just remove the decapping pin with those primed but poorly sized necks. Simple solution, thanks, Mountainview.

bajabill · « **Reply #14 on:** June 28, 2006, 12:25:32 PM »

Quote from: steve4102

The fact that the Lee Collet Die does not provide you with enough neck tension is most likely the mandrel and not your die set-up. This is a very well know issue with these dies. I have 4 Lee Collet Dies and everyone of them had less than desirable neck tension. There are two ways you can fix the problem. The first is to chuck your mandrels into a drill and with some fine sand paper turn them down to the desired diameter. The next is to contact Lee and order their "Reduced Mandrel" for your specific caliber. They cost about $5.

Good Luck.

dont forget this post

bluebayou · « **Reply #15 on:** June 28, 2006, 07:15:13 PM »

Well, I can't get the decapping pin out of the collet die. I am assuming that Mountainview was describing the full-length die. I ended up just soaking the brass with WD40. After resizing without the decapper/expander, the necks are too tight for .277 bullets. Just going to call the 10 brass a learning experience.

I backed out the necksizing die to allow the RCBS press to come closer to cam-over. This seems to be what I needed. I guess there wasn't enough force multiplying going on. I screwed the die in until it touched the shell holder and then gave it one full turn. Previously, I followed the directions and gave it 2 turns. This seems counter to everyone's advice to turn the die further IN not OUT. Maybe the difference is the cam on this RCBS press. In any event that seems to have solved it. I cannot fit the anyone of the 277 bullets that I have into the necks by hand so it they sized.

JD11 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 13, 2006, 03:44:45 AM »

Well, my new 22-250 Lee Collet Die is on it's way back to Midway. Like people here and on other sites have stated, the mandrel isn't turned down small enough to give case necks a tight enough bullet grip,---not even close. The instructions say it's correct for "normal" brass. Evidently plain old Winchester is not normal. I could live with the option of me turning it down another .001" or two but here's the clincher-----since Lee chose to save a few bucks by making the decapper pin/mandrel rod non-adjustable, when the die is adjusted properly for necksizing, the pin hangs up in the case neck as the auto-indexing rotates the die plate on their turret press. Lee's answer after a phone call---disconnect the auto-index feature or load a shorter caliber.

After my joyful experience with their turret press update kit (posted above) and now this, I'm seriously considering an all expense paid trip for one of the larger members on this board to come here to Wyoming and kick my butt up between my shoulder blades if I EVER buy anything with the word Lee on it again.

JD11 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 13, 2006, 05:29:25 AM »

Quote

Well, I can't get the decapping pin out of the collet die.

Bluebayou, the die can be totally dis-assembled. Unfortunately, like I posted, mines in the mail so I don't have it in front of me right now for reference. All the "innerds" come out of one end but not the other. Seems to me it is the top end after you unscrew the cap. The mandrel and neck compressing sleeve (collet) didn't slide out easily without pushing the sleeve out with a blunt object the first time, but easily after that. After dis-assembling it and seeing how it actually resized, (no case neck versus die friction involved, just neck squeeze by the outer sleeve after the case is fully into the die, with the inner mandrel determining the neck size, etc) I thought it was a very cleverly designed die that should be good for longer case life. But like another poster said, it would be nice if Lee would spend more money on their design, machining, etc, because most of us would gladly pay more for a better end product.

On Edit: After re-reading one of your upper posts, if you meant you couldn't remove just the decapping pin from the mandrel rod, I'm sure you're right, it's pressed in and not made to be removed. And then if you remove the rod so you don't punch out live primers, the necks will be too tight.

pascalp · « **Reply #18 on:** July 13, 2006, 10:57:11 AM »

I have some Lee's neck sizers, they work well for me. They are perfect for cast bullet, .001" more than jacketed counterpart.
Took me some times to accustom to the die, adjustement and pull on the lever (now use a classic cast, full of strengh).

Questor · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2006, 01:49:11 AM »

Uh oh! Here we go again with the war about unsatisfactory performance of a Lee product and the annointed few trying to convince the victim that all is well while the conquered and crestfallen recommend simply replacing the offending product with something better. Some things never change.