Author Topic: When does "something bigger" make sense? (Read 3881 times)

DakotaElkSlayer · « **on:** June 26, 2006, 02:17:31 PM »

At what animal size does it make sense to put away their Ruger .45 Colt or .44Mag, and step up to something bigger, like a .454, .475, .480, or .500?

Jim

dubber123 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 26, 2006, 02:42:01 PM »

When they are capable of biting back. If I was after dangerous game, I'd shoot the biggest thing I could handle well.

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** June 26, 2006, 06:08:27 PM »

Perhaps for Grizzly, brown bear or African dangerous game. Even those have all been taken plenty of times with the .44 Mag and a hot loaded .45 Colt is fully it's equal. I think more is more to fulfill egos than for reasons of more being needed.

Still I do like large diameter heavy bullets for heavy game and the .480 Ruger in a RB does that for me.

CyberSniper · « **Reply #3 on:** June 26, 2006, 07:18:15 PM »

I just can't help myself, hehe....
The way I figure it, S & W will be coming out with another
cannon shortly. No doubt based on the .50 BMG case, necked up
and blown out of course. Either that, or they might opt for
something based on a 20mm case, unless they stop fooling around
and go right to something along the lines of the 30mm....
( In other words, where will it end ? )

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 27, 2006, 01:29:46 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Perhaps for Grizzly, brown bear or African dangerous game. Even those have all been taken plenty of times with the .44 Mag and a hot loaded .45 Colt is fully it's equal. I think more is more to fulfill egos than for reasons of more being needed.

Still I do like large diameter heavy bullets for heavy game and the .480 Ruger in a RB does that for me.

That is the biggest load of dung I have heard. I did not get my 500 mag or 460 mag to fill my ego. I could careless about if you think otherwise. I got them to meet my needs. It is funny that you say the 44 mag or hot loaded 45 Colt are all one needs, and you go and get a 480 Ruger. Sounds like you put a limitation on what "you" think is to much. :roll:
Graybeard you don't like it when there is confrontation here, but you make a remark about ego's knowing it is going to cause friction between the people that chose larger calibers and those that think like you do. Again we are our own worst enemies.

But to the original question, it is not just the size of the animal or how dangerous the animal is which determines what is the max one wants to use, it is personal preference and what you personally want in performance. Sure I could of accomplished all my hunting needs with my 44 Mag. But I make a personal choice to get a 460 and 500 Mag. Let's put it into perspective. Why do people feel the need for a 50 cal muzzleloader over the 45 cal or even the 36 cal?

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** June 27, 2006, 07:24:19 AM »

Do those larger ones fill a "NEED" or a "WANT"?

What is the NEED? Why is more needed? If the .44 Mag and .45 Colt have worked successfully for so many for so long on game up to and including the big bears, all of the African Big Five then what is the NEED?

I understand wants and have no problem with them. That's plenty of reason to buy anything. But there is a difference between NEEDs and WANTS.

And no one no matter the level of protest will convince me personally that ego has nothing to do with the use of the ever larger and more powerful revolvers.

I got a .454 Casull and the .480 to do reviews of them and so I'd have the experience of them to offer advice to others on what I feel is needed. I have no personal need for either and the .454 Casull has left. The RB480 is just so dang accurate and isn't all that powerful in the view of the others. It just does an excellent job of pushing heavy cast bullets at moderate velocity. I happen to like that even tho I have no NEED for it. I suppose at this time it still fills a WANT even tho I've not fired it in probably two years and have never shot any game with it.

BTW the louder and longer you protest the more convince I become ego is a major part of the reason. :-D

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 27, 2006, 09:06:47 AM »

Well if I looked at it like you do, a 30/30 would be all the rifle I or anyone needs. But I don't think it meets my needs either.

I chose the 460 Mag over the 44 Mag and 45 Colt because, I like the challenge of a 200 yards shot which neither the 44 Mag or 45 Colt are up to that task.

When I am sitting in the woods hunting, I could careless or think I need to feed my ego because I carry a handgun bigger than a 44 Mag or 45 Colt.

You can think of it anyway you like, but if you have to ask why, you would not understand.

By the way, the 44 Mag is just boring. :-D :money:

CyberSniper · « **Reply #7 on:** June 27, 2006, 10:42:00 AM »

Uh, I'd like to interupt this discussion with a question...
How loud are those .460s, .480s, and all of that ?
I've not been around one so far.
Since they have cylinder gaps and fairly short barrels ( compared to
rifles ), I'd guess they are pretty noisy ?

Graybeard · « **Reply #8 on:** June 27, 2006, 12:01:15 PM »

Quote

Uh, I'd like to interupt this discussion with a question...
How loud are those .460s, .480s, and all of that ?
I've not been around one so far.
Since they have cylinder gaps and fairly short barrels ( compared to
rifles ), I'd guess they are pretty noisy ?

Yup pretty noisy but to me not so much more so than many other lesser rounds. The .357 Magnum with hot loads, the .30 Carbine in a handgun and even the .22 Magnum in a revolver are some of the noisiest going to me. Assuming you wear hearing protection when shooting it really matters not.

Besides I like to argue with Redhawk. One day I'm gonna teach him the difference between wanting and needing and then he's no longer gonna worry about it, he'd just realize he's doing it cuz he wants to and that that is all the excuse anyone needs for justifying a new gun. Yup the old .30-30 really is about all one needs IF one is a real hunter. In fact it's more than enough. Those bow hunting guys actually sneak into ranges the old .30-30 make duck soup. It's just a matter of how one WANTS to do it. But need plays no part in it. :-D

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 27, 2006, 01:23:31 PM »

CyberSniper, they are loud. But like GB said, a Ruger blackhawk in 30 Carbine is loud also. Heck my NAA 22 Mag is loud.

Graybeard don't you know I NEED to feed my EGO. So there is my need, are you happy now....

:-D :excuseme: I know what you mean about bow hunting, I also do that, but there is something that intrigues me at the thought of taking a deer at 200 yards with my wheel gun. :cb2:

CyberSniper · « **Reply #10 on:** June 27, 2006, 01:47:02 PM »

Thanks guys, sounds like they aren't much worse than stuff I
have used.
The last deer I got was maybe a 40 foot shot, used a 4 inch .44 Special.
( Head shot a spike. )
Took out a ram at 50 yards about 15 years ago.
Used a Model 625, .45 Auto Rim. 200 grain Speer "flying ashtray"
right through the chest.Recovered the bullet under the hide
on the off side.
Gee, those animals should have run off, no magnums there.
Good thing I didn't know better at the time.
I'm not knocking the .460 either, I wasn't shooting all that far.

4MUL8R · « **Reply #11 on:** June 28, 2006, 02:15:33 PM »

I chose a revolver based on the entire package, not just the caliber. As a result, I ended up with a .454 Casull. I am downloading it to .44 Magnum ballistics, but enjoy the fit, finish, and handling of this revolver which wasn't available in the .44 Magnum. I prefer flexibility of cartridges like the .454 Casull or the magnum rifles, and usually pick one that has the most options for bullet weight or style.

corbanzo · « **Reply #12 on:** June 28, 2006, 05:11:22 PM »

I don't know about you guys, but I always seem to need something bigger. It is necessary for my mental health that I have the biggest handguns I can get my hands on, so you see, it is a pure necessity and a matter of my health. :-D :-D

Why go bigger? Cause I can. My .44mag can do just fine, but I got my .454 cause I felt like it. My -06 can kill anything in Alaska, I'm not planning on going to Africa any time soon, but I still got my .458 cause I could. That is what is good about the whole freedom thing, the power to choose and get what you want.

I mean, no one really needs any handgun, we have grocery stores and police and military. No one needs jewellery or cell phones either. Why do we get them? Because it's what we are into. When guys start questioning going bigger, I start to wonder about how much their wives influence their lives...

Isn't it part of human nature to want the next biggest and best thing? I'll curve my own cravings.

CyberSniper · « **Reply #13 on:** June 28, 2006, 05:38:35 PM »

Luckily, rifles were not mentioned up to this point.
Even though I have not used a handgun larger than a .44 Mag,
I do use 375 H & H and .458 Win Mags. ( hehe )
Oh darn, I'm busted now, haha !

RANGER RICK · « **Reply #14 on:** June 28, 2006, 06:08:34 PM »

Jim

Boy howdy that is one loaded ( pun intended ) question for sure !!!
I think like alot of others do that it is a personell preference for each person and what he or she is going to use on an animal be it a magnum or not .

Living and hunting in Alaska I like to have more than enough gun just because .
Even from a small child I have loved the big heavy recoiling rifles and revolvers .
More than once I was set back on my hind end when I was a kid

I do not even think I knew what an ego was when I was a kid ,I just love the hard recoiling everything so I am going to have to chime in with Red Hawk about this not being an ego thing for me .

I can honestly say I have never thought about someones ego when I see them at the range shooting a big bore revolver !!! Never crossed my mind . :roll:

I use a 500 Smith PC Hunter 10.5 for most of my hunting here in Alaska and it is just a choice .
I do have a lonely 44 Red hawk sitting in my safe wanting to be fondled a little . :eek:
I did pick up the 460 XVR with the 14" barrel to reach out and touch some caribou for this year .
Actually that trip is coming up soon and I also will be using my bow for some up and close personell hunting .

Anyway it is a choice for the most part and not really a ego thing .
Just another opinion to go along with all the others !!!!!

RANGER RICK · « **Reply #15 on:** June 28, 2006, 06:09:49 PM »

Jim

Boy howdy that is one loaded ( pun intended ) question for sure !!!
I think like alot of others do that it is a personell preference for each person and what he or she is going to use on an animal be it a magnum or not .

Living and hunting in Alaska I like to have more than enough gun just because .
Even from a small child I have loved the big heavy recoiling rifles and revolvers .
More than once I was set back on my hind end when I was a kid

I do not even think I knew what an ego was when I was a kid ,I just love the hard recoiling everything so I am going to have to chime in with Red Hawk about this not being an ego thing for me .

I can honestly say I have never thought about someones ego when I see them at the range shooting a big bore revolver !!! Never crossed my mind . :roll:

I use a 500 Smith PC Hunter 10.5 for most of my hunting here in Alaska and it is just a choice .
I do have a lonely 44 Red hawk sitting in my safe wanting to be fondled a little . :eek:
I did pick up the 460 XVR with the 14" barrel to reach out and touch some caribou for this year .
Actually that trip is coming up soon and I also will be using my bow for some up and close personell hunting .

Anyway it is a choice for the most part and not really a ego thing .
Just another opinion to go along with all the others !!!!!

Old Griz · « **Reply #16 on:** June 28, 2006, 06:17:39 PM »

:cb2: Oh how I hate this Need/Want thing. I just put a deposit down on a USFA gun that I "need" like another hemorrhoid, but "want" really bad! Did I do this just to enhance my ego? Darn tootin' I did!!! (Sorry Redhawk, just being honest!)

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** June 28, 2006, 10:42:49 PM »

makes sense when you want it too. IVe killed little 90lb deer with the 500 land 475 linebaughs. they did the job with no more meat dammage then a 44 and probably not a bit more spectacularly. When is it needed? Very seldom. Id have to go with the dangerous game answer for that. A good 44 or 45 will do alot of killing. But i guess if I was 25 yards from a brown bear or cape buffalo id rather have one of my linebaughs. But then the .44s and 45s have proven capable of taking them too. Just make dammed sure your load is up to the task. Jacketed bullets have no place on game bigger then whitetail or black bear. People think the big guns are like the hammer of thor but ive shot a couple bison with the 500 and they just didnt agree with that. It killed them well but surely didnt lift them off there feet and drive them into the ground. Like has been posted before the best big bore handgun loads are about in the class of a black powder 4570 load just cause they buck and snort like one there not 460 weatherbys by a long shot.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 29, 2006, 01:05:45 AM »

OK, maybe I didn't need one or two or even my third 460 Mag or my two 500 Mags. But I darn sure do not need to feed my ego. I like to have what I want, weather it fits a need or a want. I was told a 500 mag was the answer to the question that was not asked, so how would that feed my ego? I was the odd man out because I always try to be different than everyone else. I like big bore guns, be it rifle or handgun. I get bored with what everyone else thinks we should be using. If you are happy with a 44 Mag or 45 L/C then by all means keep using them. Me, I like something bigger, why throw a rock when you can throw a bolder? :toast:

corbanzo, you comment killed me, I fell out of my chair laughing my A** off " When guys start questioning going bigger, I start to wonder about how much their wives influence their lives... " :-D

Now that is funny.

PaulS · « **Reply #19 on:** June 29, 2006, 06:43:51 AM »

Need? in todays world there is no "need" to have any guns. That is what we're being told all the time. Every gun I own, I want and I don't need any of them. Is ego the reason I buy them? I don't think so, buy it might play a part in it. I don't need to hunt. I can buy my food. I don't need to shoot at targets but I like the personal challenge. If the guy next to me doesn't shoot as well and wants help I will help him but it isn't ego that drives me. I don't have any handguns bigger that 357 Maximum because I can't shoot anything bigger. It hurts these old hands and wrists to shoot the most powerful guns that I own now. If I wasn't sensitive to recoil I would probably own some bigger guns. Ego? No just a desire to see how far I can personally go. I don't hunt dangerous game with a handgun because I have rifles to do that with and I can't shoot a big enough handgun to feel safe when hunting dangerous game. If I could I might be out there with the biggest most powerful hangun made. EGO? No, just providing myself with the largest margin of safety I can.
The question should be is there such a thing as too big a gun. My brother hunts squirrel with a 44 mag. Why? because it was the only pistol he has with him and he can do it without wasting any meat. Ego? no, not with him. He would do the same thing with a 22 if he had one with him.
When it comes right down to it we really don't NEED a gun-any gun. We have them because we enjoy them. If you enjoy a 50 caliber hand cannon that is capable of giving me a broken arm with the first shot then go for it. If it gives your ego a boost the thats ok too. I can't sit here and tell you what drives you to buy that next bigger better handgun. If you feel it is a need then it might be. If you feel it has a practical use beyond what you already own then it might be needed by you. If you can put down a bull elk at 100 yards with a 22 RF and hunt grizzley with a 38 and have no need of a 500 maximum magnum elephant revolver then don't buy one. I don't need those guns but someone here might. It might be ego, then again there might be a reason behind the purchase of that gun too. Maybe that gun make him feel safer when going after grizzley bear or maybe it shoots tighter groups at 100 yards than any of his other guns. Maybe he just likes the way it looks and wants to hang it in his display case. All of our guns are wants - we can have shelter, water, food, and companionship without any of them. We don't require them for life. We might want them to enjoy life. The same way that some people climb ever more dangerous mountains or jump off cliffs with just enough room to open a parashoot. We have them to help us enjoy life. It doesn't have to be an ego thing at all. At the same time it just might give someone a big ego boost to know that he can handle the biggest, baddest handgun ever made. There is nothing wrong with a healthy ego.

sawfish · « **Reply #20 on:** June 29, 2006, 09:19:51 AM »

Why does it have to make sense? Experiencing the joys (and pain) of the various calibers enriches your shooting experience. Some years ago, I took a very nice (SCI Gold Medal) Axis deer at 175 yards with a .460 Weatherby. I did not need a gun nearly that powerful for a deer, or anything else in the lower 48.

I had acquired the .460 a few years prior for a very nominal sum, and had not had the opportunity to shoot anything other than paper. I guess in the words of a gun grabbing former president, "I did it because I could". It was interesting, but I have not hunted deer (or anything else) with it since that time, nor am I contemplating a .460 Weatherby Encore.

I do not own a .500 S & W, but I might someday. I have a .480 Redhawk and both a Contender and BFR in 45/70 Govt., but know that the old .44 Magnum will do just about anything I need in a hunting situation. I don't see the point of the want/need argument. More guns = More Fun. It is also good for the shooting sports manufacturers who spend large sums of money protecting our Second Amendment rights.

Besides, if we only had what we really needed, poor old Graybeard would be out of business, and all of our moderators would be out looking for honest work :-D :-D

.

Graybeard · « **Reply #21 on:** June 29, 2006, 12:38:21 PM »

Quote

I chose a revolver based on the entire package, not just the caliber. As a result, I ended up with a .454 Casull. I am downloading it to .44 Magnum ballistics, but enjoy the fit, finish, and handling of this revolver which wasn't available in the .44 Magnum. I prefer flexibility of cartridges like the .454 Casull or the magnum rifles, and usually pick one that has the most options for bullet weight or style.

Interesting. What revovler out there is made in .454 Casull but NOT in .44 Mag? Didn't realize there was one.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #22 on:** June 29, 2006, 01:53:28 PM »

up till recently the only one i could name is the Alaskan and there now making them in 44 too.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #23 on:** June 29, 2006, 04:52:28 PM »

So, what you guys are telling me is that a .475 Linebaugh wouldn't do a better job at killing elk than one of my Ruger .45Colts?

I am pretty much a practical man... Got the BFR .475 Linebaugh stashed at work for future purchase thinking it would be a better elk revolver than my .45 Colt Vaquero or .45Colt SBHH. Well if that truely isn't the case, I will just put it on the shelf and instead invest that money in lead and powder...and maybe a 32 H&R Mag!

Jim

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 30, 2006, 12:29:33 AM »

Quote from: DakotaElkSlayer

So, what you guys are telling me is that a .475 Linebaugh wouldn't do a better job at killing elk than one of my Ruger .45Colts?

I am pretty much a practical man... Got the BFR .475 Linebaugh stashed at work for future purchase thinking it would be a better elk revolver than my .45 Colt Vaquero or .45Colt SBHH. Well if that truely isn't the case, I will just put it on the shelf and instead invest that money in lead and powder...and maybe a 32 H&R Mag!

Jim

You surly would not catch me with a 45 L/C on an Elk hunt. Sure it can be done, but why? If you told someone you were going to use a 243 on an Elk hunt they would tell you the same thing. Get a bigger gun.

I know some smart guy is going to come here and say, I guess all them Elk I killed with a bow just did not know better. But a arrow kill is different than a bullet.

redawg · « **Reply #25 on:** July 16, 2006, 12:18:26 PM »

Quote from: Redhawk1 on June 30, 2006, 12:29:33 AM

Quote from: DakotaElkSlayer
So, what you guys are telling me is that a .475 Linebaugh wouldn't do a better job at killing elk than one of my Ruger .45Colts?

I am pretty much a practical man... Got the BFR .475 Linebaugh stashed at work for future purchase thinking it would be a better elk revolver than my .45 Colt Vaquero or .45Colt SBHH. Well if that truely isn't the case, I will just put it on the shelf and instead invest that money in lead and powder...and maybe a 32 H&R Mag!

Jim

You surly would not catch me with a 45 L/C on an Elk hunt. Sure it can be done, but why? If you told someone you were going to use a 243 on an Elk hunt they would tell you the same thing. Get a bigger gun.

I know some smart guy is going to come here and say, I guess all them Elk I killed with a bow just did not know better. But a arrow kill is different than a bullet.

I'm curious. I've never hunted elk or even seen a live one up close for that matter, but I was under the impression a 45 Colt w/ a 300gr cast bullet at around 1200fps would be a pretty good load for thick skinned game along the lines of elk. Why wouldn't you use a 45 Colt on elk? I'm not trying to be a smart @$$, I'm geniunely curious. Thanks!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 16, 2006, 03:26:32 PM »

redawg, that is just my personal choice. Like I said I am sure it would work, but I would not use one. My smallest handgun for hunting is my 460 Mag, I sold all my other hunting handguns. I just like the S&W 460 and 500 Mags.

redawg · « **Reply #27 on:** July 17, 2006, 08:44:45 AM »

Peronal choice, gotcha. Thanks.

Old Griz · « **Reply #28 on:** July 17, 2006, 01:12:46 PM »

Hey come on guys. Anytime you get something you WANT but really don't NEED, you're feeding your ego. Sure you may hunt dangerous game and NEED something that is going to stop a griz, or a lion, etc., but when you have half of dozen of these thermal-mega-blasters, you're stroking the old ego. You can call it "hobby" or what ever you want, but face it fellas, WE ALL DO IT. So don't get bent out of shape or offended by it. It's as natural as breathing. We do it because it makes us feel better. When we come on line and say stuff like, "Yeah, I got rid of all my girlly guns. Put a couple of hundred rounds through my .600 Nitro revolver this weekend, but those factory loads just aren't hot enough," it's ego. That's what ego is — feeling better about yourself, what you're doing, who you're doing it with, fulfilling WANTS. Like PaulS said, "There is nothing wrong with a healthy ego." Heck, the only way to not have an ego is to die.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 17, 2006, 03:26:24 PM »

Quote from: Old Griz on July 17, 2006, 01:12:46 PM

Hey come on guys. Anytime you get something you WANT but really don't NEED, you're feeding your ego. Sure you may hunt dangerous game and NEED something that is going to stop a griz, or a lion, etc., but when you have half of dozen of these thermal-mega-blasters, you're stroking the old ego. You can call it "hobby" or what ever you want, but face it fellas, WE ALL DO IT. So don't get bent out of shape or offended by it. It's as natural as breathing. We do it because it makes us feel better. When we come on line and say stuff like, "Yeah, I got rid of all my girlly guns. Put a couple of hundred rounds through my .600 Nitro revolver this weekend, but those factory loads just aren't hot enough," it's ego. That's what ego is — feeling better about yourself, what you're doing, who you're doing it with, fulfilling WANTS. Like PaulS said, "There is nothing wrong with a healthy ego." Heck, the only way to not have an ego is to die.

Whatever, I also don't load my rounds past factory velocities. I load for accuracy not speed. I buy what I want, I don't need to feed my ego or try to make myself look cool because I got a big bore gun. Hell, I am not impressed when I see someone else with one. Just to answer your comment about why I don't have any of my other guns for hunting any longer, I sold all my 44 Mags, 45 L/C's 454 Casull's because I not longer shoot them. I don't keep guns for sentimental value or think I need to impress others with a stock pile of guns, although I have over 30 guns counting rifles, shotguns and handguns. Also I don't need guns to feel better about myself, you may need it, but don't put others in your ego boosting club.
Sure I buy guns that I think I can use and get the most out of it, also I like to try different guns. I don't like to hear about how good or bad a gun is, I get them and see for myself. I give my feedback from hands on experience not something I read or what my Uncle's cousin told me. Big difference between myself and others.