When does "something bigger" make sense?

[waynemorgan]

now you did it : the guy i got my colt anaconda in 45 lc from wants it back.so now i HAVE to go to cabeles and get a new smith 460 and a new 500 in four inch .i like that 460 in a 5 inch .and yes i need every thing big .

p.s. i just checked the mail and i got a card from cabelas for $ 100.00 off of a  $500.00 or more if i ude my club card i cant pass up a sale like that

[no guns here]

Each to his own... why argue???  Discussion is fine, but heated words suck.  Personally, I have no "need" for anything bigger than my current .45-70 or .30-'06.  There is nothing in this world that is huntable that hasn't been killed with one or the other of these (or cartridges of like power).  That being said, I might in the future buy a bigger rifle, but only if I ever go to Africa.  I have no need for 3" or 3 1/2" 12 gauge shells.  Millions of birds die every year to 2 3/4" shells.  Passenger pigeons were exterminated with BP loads.  I can take any animal (that I should be shooting at with a 12 ga.)  or person with a  2 3/4" load.  If I were to change my circumstances and location, my needs may change to a bigger payload.  Personal desires are leaning more and more to a smaller, slower cartridge state of mind.  I'd really like to have more middle of the road chamberings represented in my collection than I do now.  I would rather have a new 6.5mm than a .460.  Would rather have a new .45 Colt than a .500.  I think most of my new purchases will be in smaller cartridges and/or pistol cartridges.  Just don't need or like the big boomers that much anymore.  Not that I can't or won't shoot them, but don't really want to.

Y'all play nice...
no guns here

[Redhawk1]

Each to his own... why argue???  Discussion is fine, but heated words suck.  Personally, I have no "need" for anything bigger than my current .45-70 or .30-'06.  There is nothing in this world that is huntable that hasn't been killed with one or the other of these (or cartridges of like power).  That being said, I might in the future buy a bigger rifle, but only if I ever go to Africa.  I have no need for 3" or 3 1/2" 12 gauge shells.  Millions of birds die every year to 2 3/4" shells.  Passenger pigeons were exterminated with BP loads.  I can take any animal (that I should be shooting at with a 12 ga.)  or person with a  2 3/4" load.  If I were to change my circumstances and location, my needs may change to a bigger payload.  Personal desires are leaning more and more to a smaller, slower cartridge state of mind.  I'd really like to have more middle of the road chamberings represented in my collection than I do now.  I would rather have a new 6.5mm than a .460.  Would rather have a new .45 Colt than a .500.  I think most of my new purchases will be in smaller cartridges and/or pistol cartridges.  Just don't need or like the big boomers that much anymore.  Not that I can't or won't shoot them, but don't really want to.

Y'all play nice...
no guns here

Why argue???   It gets real old hearing the same old crap from guys that don't think anyone needs or wants a bigger gun, other than a 44 Mag or 45 L/C, that is why argue!  Just one time I would love to be in a room when one of these big mouth know it all has a smart comment.  >:(It is always the same guys that say the same thing, over and over and over. For once I would like to see a discussion here go without someone thinking they have to make themselves look better on someone's else's behalf. 

If big bore guns make someone happy, who has the right to tell them other wise?

[waynemorgan]

i like big bore guns,big trucks and big ................got to go my wife just cane in

[no guns here]

Yep, that's my point... why should I try to tell anyone what to buy to put in their safe?  My desires aren't their desires.  My needs aren't their needs.  Now is someone ASKS my opinion, I will try to consider what they tell me their needs and desires are before I give my generally worthless advice.  What I can't stand is when someone presents their opinion as fact and as an unassailable position.  Sort of like when one of my kids says "This is nasty" about some new food.  I jump right on them to change their words to something more along the lines of "I don't like this".  They (and us adults) have to realize that someone, somewhere thinks the latest mega-blaster is just the greatest thing, that the Pacer was a beautiful car and that what turns our stomach is the most tasty treat going...  Of course I'm not going to be dogmatic about this.  We are all entitled to our own opinions and we have the right to represent them as facts and to ridicule anyone who disagrees...

later,
ngh

[sawfish]

I guess it is still true.  If you want to start a big ruckus, just criticize another man's choice of women, trucks, or guns! 

[Old Griz]

Big difference between myself and others.

That's EGO talkin'! 

[Old Griz]

If big bore guns make someone happy, who has the right to tell them other wise?

Couldn't agree with you more. How you spend your money, and what you buy, is YOUR business and yours alone. If that's what is fun to you (and it's neither legal, nor immoral), go do it! Buy a dozen!

Not trying to pick on you, or make you mad. Sorry if I did. I was just trying to point out that there is a reason why we surpass our NEEDS and begin to fulfill our WANTS the way we do. You do it, I do it, we all do it. Except, of course, people in a third world country that don't even have their NEEDS met.

Hey! I didn't start the Needs/Wants issue — I just jumped in on the fun.

[Redhawk1]

Yea, I have an ego as big as my gun....

[DWTim]

Q: When does something bigger make sense?
A: When the other stuff gets boring.


For me, it's as simple as that. We don't need to get "Freudian" about it. Shooting all kinds of wheelguns is how I get my yuk-yuks. Sure, they make for a good defense. And yes, I hunt sometimes, but when I go to the range, those big wheelguns are my fireworks. I'm not limited to just the big bores, either, but they sure are fun. I like the arcane and the diminutive, as well. (Dixie Gunworks had this 2mm revolver for sale at one point. You can't image how disappointed I was when I found out that it didn't actually shoot anything but caps!  )

Let me further illustrate my point:

At first, I was happy with .22 rimfire. Then I graduated to rather tame wadcutters out of a .38 special. I thought that would hold my interest. Nope. I played with the .380s, then the wonder 9s, but that got old. Then I bought a .357 with a 4" barrel. That held my interest for a while, until a friend introduced me to Mr. 44 magnum. That somehow made the .357 seem less fun. My brother got into reloading, and had the dies for 357, so I kept asking him to make me ever-hotter loads for it. I got a Dan Wesson pistol pack. I love to shoot it with the 2" barrel and the rip-snortin' rounds.

But, that has become boring. I now have a DW SuperMag in .357 Maximum. I bought a Super Blackhawk in 44 magnum. I saw the muzzle on a S&W 25-5, bought it, and now I have .45LC fever. I'm sure that will develop into a full-on 454 Casull infection by the time this decade is out. And yes, someday I will be shooting .600 Nitro Express out of a Z-Frame S&W revolver, commenting on how tame the Y-Frame loadings were. There is no end to it.

Sounds like an introduction at Muzzle Blast Anonymous, doesn't it?

Since the hunting laws and ever-present government have conspired to make my hunting choices .22 LR, birdshot or slugs out of a shotgun, I will never hunt in this state with any of my hand cannons, or rifles. But, about the only time I care about what someone else thinks is when I see them cringing in the next station at the range, when I fire one of those suckers. That's why I always ask for the station at the end.

If you don't know what I meant by "fireworks", I guess I could explain it this way: In my little corner of the world, it's my little dab of risk in an otherwise dull life. The big boom and flash is a surprise, kind of a like one of those scare-houses on Halloween -- Which I love, by the way. I'm not saying this applies to everyone, but I'm attempting to explain what makes me tick. If I was hunting with one of these cannons, I think I'd pick whichever had the biggest "fun factor", because it is likely the one I will be most comfortable with, and likely the one I would shoot best with.

Is that enlightening, or do I need to stay in a padded room for a spell?

[PaulS]

I can almost handle the recoil of my 357 Maximum - it is rough on the wrist after 10 or so shots. I tend to be recoil sensitive. I have fired 44 mags and 454 Cassull and one shot was ok but I don't need them whether it is for hunting or not. My brother likes the 44 but has chosen the 357 Maximum as his hunting pistol. He likes the recoil of the bigger guns and I don't think he will ever find a gun that is too big. That's ok for him - but not for me. Ultimately as long as the gun you choose is legal and you enjoy shooting it then you have every right to own and shoot whatever you feel you need to. As long as you don't tell me that the gun I am using is too small I won't tell you that yours is too big.
I could never get away with that anyway - I don't believe you can have a gun too big or too accurate.

[MS Hitman]

This has been a lively discussion. 

One point I have not read is that there is a difference between killing and stopping.  I have read of occurences where small caliber rifles have been used to kill elephant.  These rounds will however, do a poor job of stopping an elephant.  This is where the big bore, heavy rifles come into their own.  Same pretty much goes for big bore handguns.  Yes, .44 Mags and .45 LC have been used successfully on game up to and including elephant.  I do not believe for a minute though, these rounds are as effective at stopping large and dangerous game as the Linebaughs or the .500 S&W.  As I have said before, if I can stop an animal, I can kill it without either having to fight it off of me, or chase it down; the former being a worse case scenario.

I like the big bore firearms.  I believe them to be more effective on game; again, it's the stopping vs. killing thing.  I plan to get back to Africa just as soon as I can and when I go, it will be with a really big bore revolver on my hip for dangerous game.  At that point, I will look at it as a need and not a want.  Besides, I have six children, I don't need an ego  .

[Redhawk1]

This has been a lively discussion. 

One point I have not read is that there is a difference between killing and stopping.  I have read of occurences where small caliber rifles have been used to kill elephant.  These rounds will however, do a poor job of stopping an elephant.  This is where the big bore, heavy rifles come into their own.  Same pretty much goes for big bore handguns.  Yes, .44 Mags and .45 LC have been used successfully on game up to and including elephant.  I do not believe for a minute though, these rounds are as effective at stopping large and dangerous game as the Linebaughs or the .500 S&W.  As I have said before, if I can stop an animal, I can kill it without either having to fight it off of me, or chase it down; the former being a worse case scenario.

I like the big bore firearms.  I believe them to be more effective on game; again, it's the stopping vs. killing thing.  I plan to get back to Africa just as soon as I can and when I go, it will be with a really big bore revolver on my hip for dangerous game.  At that point, I will look at it as a need and not a want.  Besides, I have six children, I don't need an ego  .

Well said there MS Hitman. 

[SJPrice]

At what animal size does it make sense to put away their Ruger .45 Colt or .44Mag, and step up to something bigger, like a .454, .475, .480, or .500?  

Jim

This might be a good time...


 

[jamaldog87]

we killed them with 22mag rifles. i think that the 44mag is good for most game in the US but for bears and big game like that 454 is the min. for them. i have hear of people using cal like the 44mag in handguns and almost been kill by bears. bigger i most time better on game that hunts you back and no one ever said "wow that was too power to kill that"

[4MUL8R]

To clarify my earlier post on a choice in 454 C, that I am downloading to 44 magnum...the revolver I ended up with was a used FA 83, so that combination of fit finish aesthetics and craftsmanship was not available in 44 Magnum where I live at that price--it was only available in 454 C (both used revos at my shop).  But, as Graybeard rightly points out the 44 magnum is available in FA revolvers.  I was just trying to say that sometimes you end up with something bigger that you don't need to be bigger based on other parts of the decision.  I'm much happier with my FA than I would be with another brand revolver of 44 magnum.

[Lloyd Smale]

we differ here pal. To me a .45 colt loaded with a hardcast 300 at 1200 fps is plenty of medicine for elk and stepping up to a .454 or 460 does absolutely nothing. Push a cast bullet any faster then a 45 colt will push them out of a large framed ruger and you gain nothing! Been a few cape buffalo shot with .45 colts and i know of at least a couple elephant shot with 44 mags with heavy cast so i cant buy into the fact that its not enough gun for elk. I personally wouldnt feel undergunned with a 44 special/mag or 45 colt pushing a 250 hardcast swc to 1000 fps on elk. I know from experince that it will shoot through an animal that size or ever bigger.

So, what you guys are telling me is that a .475 Linebaugh wouldn't do a better job at killing elk than one of my Ruger .45Colts?

I am pretty much a practical man...  Got the BFR .475 Linebaugh stashed at work for future purchase thinking it would be a better elk revolver than my .45 Colt Vaquero or .45Colt SBHH.  Well if that truely isn't the case, I will just put it on the shelf and instead invest that money in lead and powder...and maybe a 32 H&R Mag!

Jim

You surly would not catch me with a 45 L/C on an Elk hunt.  Sure it can be done, but why?  If you told someone you were going to use a 243 on an Elk hunt they would tell you the same thing. Get a bigger gun.

I know some smart guy is going to come here and say, I guess all them Elk I killed with a bow  just did not know better. But a arrow kill is different than a bullet.

[Redhawk1]

we differ here pal. To me a .45 colt loaded with a hardcast 300 at 1200 fps is plenty of medicine for elk and stepping up to a .454 or 460 does absolutely nothing. Push a cast bullet any faster then a 45 colt will push them out of a large framed ruger and you gain nothing! Been a few cape buffalo shot with .45 colts and i know of at least a couple elephant shot with 44 mags with heavy cast so i cant buy into the fact that its not enough gun for elk. I personally wouldnt feel undergunned with a 44 special/mag or 45 colt pushing a 250 hardcast swc to 1000 fps on elk. I know from experince that it will shoot through an animal that size or ever bigger.

So, what you guys are telling me is that a .475 Linebaugh wouldn't do a better job at killing elk than one of my Ruger .45Colts?

I am pretty much a practical man...  Got the BFR .475 Linebaugh stashed at work for future purchase thinking it would be a better elk revolver than my .45 Colt Vaquero or .45Colt SBHH.  Well if that truely isn't the case, I will just put it on the shelf and instead invest that money in lead and powder...and maybe a 32 H&R Mag!

Jim

You surly would not catch me with a 45 L/C on an Elk hunt.  Sure it can be done, but why?  If you told someone you were going to use a 243 on an Elk hunt they would tell you the same thing. Get a bigger gun.

I know some smart guy is going to come here and say, I guess all them Elk I killed with a bow  just did not know better. But a arrow kill is different than a bullet.

 Lloyd, I know the 45 L/C would work. But like I said me personally I would not use it.  A lot of guys don't reload and I would be afraid they would try a factory load made for the older Colts and not have the bullet or powder to make a clean kill. I know a lot of reloaders would choose the right bullet and set up to make a clean kill.  I think that is why I would not recommend the 45 Colt. The 45 Colt can be loaded to 44 mag levels and I surly would use a 44 Mag.

[simplicity]

Want or need I wish Elmer Keith was around to argue this question if it weren't for him wanting the 44 mag would never have been.

[lovedogs]

Boy, are we humans complicated!  The original question was on "need" and we got way off that subject.  I think it'd drive a shrink crazy trying to figure out why we each do what we do.  What this whole thing boils down to is not need, for we have no real need.  We don't even "need" to shoot game.  It comes down to wants and interests.  We enjoy hunting so we do it.  We use the guns we use because that's what we want to use.  Some are interesting to us, some are not.  What interests me might not be of any interest to you.  Someone said .44's are boring.  Not to me.  It's my favorite.  I love the .44's.  Wish I had more of them.  I never tire of them.

And our interests change from time to time.  I didn't used to even think of lever rifles; now I want one... in .44 of course.  A couple years ago I got interested in .45-70's.  I've started using one and am nuts about it!  While others are out sniping their antelope with flat-shooting magnums I'm sneaking up and bowling them over with my single-shot .45-70.  Does it take a 300 gr. bullet to kill a 100 lb. antelope?  Heck no!  But I just wanted to do it.  I did it.  It worked great!  But this year I can't wait to shoot deer with my .44 Contender and a new bullet from my newest Saeco mould.  So that's what I'll do.

As long as you're doing whatever turns your crank, doing it  ethically and enjoying it I say more power to you.  That's what we're all about, isn't it?

Best to all of you!

Mike

[S.S.]

Something Bigger is needed when something smaller is not adequate for the job at hand...
I look back at some of the Firearms of the 1800's that were killing
everything on the North American continent, power wise,They were Pip-Squeaks by modern standards but those old timers sure fed their families with them. I'll bet that the old 44-40 Win.
has cleanly killed everything on the continent fired both from a rifle and a Handgun.
I know the 30-30 has. So my answer would be a question in it's self. Is all the power that modern weapons have at their disposal necessary? Probably not. Does it make some folks feel better to have it if by some chance thay may need it? probably so..
Another question: You are about to merge into traffic from an entrance ramp. an 18 wheeler
is closing on you. You are in a Yugo that has just enough power to get you out of harms way.
But wouldn't you prefer to be in a Dodge Viper at that very moment? The Yugo was adequate,
But i'll bet it was a White Knuckle ride from the grip you had on the steering wheel

[SJPrice]

Another question: You are about to merge into traffic from an entrance ramp. an 18 wheeler
is closing on you. You are in a Yugo that has just enough power to get you out of harms way.
But wouldn't you prefer to be in a Dodge Viper at that very moment? The Yugo was adequate,
But i'll bet it was a White Knuckle ride from the grip you had on the steering wheel

Note to self:  "Self, do not accept rides from S.Summer in his Yugo."

[Redhawk1]

Another question: You are about to merge into traffic from an entrance ramp. an 18 wheeler
is closing on you. You are in a Yugo that has just enough power to get you out of harms way.
But wouldn't you prefer to be in a Dodge Viper at that very moment? The Yugo was adequate,
But i'll bet it was a White Knuckle ride from the grip you had on the steering wheel

Note to self:  "Self, do not accept rides from S.Summer in his Yugo."

Now thta is funny. 

[S.S.]

Just using Yugo as an example, Don't have one.
If I had one I would paint it Camo. and use it for a hunting blind.
I like Horsepower myself!
1979 Camaro, high output 283 with double hump heads
,Steel crank, 30 over 10.5 to 1 compression  pistons,
I even have a 2 speed powerglide transmission! High and low,
High is NICE!
Baby number 2 is a 1973 MavericK "Grabber" with a 289 !
Have a 302 being created for it though. That should THUMP the
concrete pretty well !
Baby number 3 is a 1974 Plymouth "Duster" ... Rare Big Block 360... NUFF SAID!

[SJPrice]

follow up note to self: "Self, do not ever again insinuate that S.Sumner drives a yugo."   

[S.S.]

My brother and I have been restoring classic cars for about 25
years now. I really have a soft spot for old muscle cars.
I forgot about our truck, We have just started a body off restoration project on a
67 ford short-bed. Should be NICE when complete. Selling restored cars allows
for the wallet to sometimes be large and fat enough to buy things that go bang too.
Wife doesn't say much when those purchased firearms do not touch the savings account

[SJPrice]

S.Sumner,

With gas prices these days there may soon be a market for restored Yugo's  Just kidding!  Seriously, how about posting an off topic picture or two of the Ford SB when you get it done?

[S.S.]

No problem, if I can figure out how to post pictures here

[Scott T]

I think something bigger can make sense in many ways.

When I returned from Alaska in 1999, I saw a need for a pistol that would give me the power to deal with a bear while fishing.  The .44 mag just was not enough.

I bought a .454 Casull and shot the hell out of it, but it just did not trip my trigger because it hurt to shoot it too much.

Then I got this bright idea, why not tone down the recoil a bit by upping bullet weight and lowering the velocity.

I had John Linebaugh build a .500 for me and I never looked back.  I shoot 400gr LFNs at 800-900fps.

It kills every bit as well as my .454 on deer and it sails right through everything I have shot.  on hogs, it will give complete penetration from front on shots.  Plenty for what I need and it is controllable.



These bullets went 31 inches in wet newspaper earlier this year.  You could re-lube them and shoot them again.

They go straight and tear a good hole.  What else could one want?



The gun is at Jim Rigg's house getting engraved right now.  Yeah, it makes sense to me.

[Troggy]

I will take a novice shot an an answer for DakotaElkSlayer. I think you need more gun when you dont feel confident in what ya got. for instance I belive that a 44mag is realy all anyone would need most of the time. But lets say I was going to go after elk, me we're talking about, I would want more. IF I ever go after elk then I would use my .358JDJ, not a wheel gun round but that's what I have that is bigger than a 44. IF I lived where things bigger than a hog could bite ya I would want a 475, only 'cause I hear how accurate thay are and I belive that a 44 is not the best brown/Griz cartridge. I do belive there a some hogs alive now, that would laugh at a 44 mag but I would bet I prolly  would never meet 'em. Just my Hunting/Gun mag,  limited hog hunting 2 cents worth. Im sure some people get heavy cal. hanguns for ego and I also bet that some just like 'em because. I dont know if you have a grizz population where you live but if you do and I were you I'd want bigger. Until I leave SoCal the biggest revolver I'll own is a 44mag. and if I end up near my Dad in WA or my inlaws in OR I'll still prolly only have the 44. Now for my WANTS....a FA 475 or a Reeder 475......I'll never get 'em.