Author Topic: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel  (Read 2200 times)

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Offline Michael Az

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Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« on: July 14, 2006, 05:03:47 AM »
As I don't have a ball turning attachment for my lathe yet, I was wondering what the preferred method is for turning the 1" radius on the breech end of a mortar you fellows use. I know I could drill a 2" hole in a piece of stock, cut it in half for a gauge and freehand the radius as it isn't a high precision job.
 I have done a lot of searching and reading since I found this place but can't find where it has been discussed before. I don't think the search function is working yet either. I will have two barrels to radius after today. Thanks
Michael

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2006, 06:24:56 AM »
One approach, using a minimum of equipment, would be to radius the end of a drill bit.  I've done that at 1" bore diameter and it works well.  A spade drill is very easy to grind to a radius & if not done right is cheaply replaceable.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Powder keg

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2006, 06:34:56 AM »
Hey Cat. I think he is talking about the outside of the barrel. I used the cut and step method for a couple of years with good results. Guy latard Has a book on this method http://lautard.com/ballbook.htm I highly recomend it. He has some other stuff that's interesting as well.

Wes
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Offline Michael Az

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2006, 07:41:49 AM »
Hi Cat, yes, I should have mentioned the outside radius.
Wes, I do have some of Guys books but sadly not that one. I thought I had a formula around here some where for doing that but can't find it. I really hate to have to wait a week for a book as I am almost ready to do it now. I guess I can make the gauge and do it that way.
Thanks fellows
Michael

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2006, 11:16:44 AM »
Being a computer programmer for food, I wrote a program that does this kind of calculation.  Give me your dimensions and I will make a run of it. 

There is also a guy who writes freeware and has many machinist-oriented programs available.  His name is Marv Klotz and his site is http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz/#shop.  Try the second program, BALLCUT.ZIP.  You will need a program to unzip the file unless you are using a recent version of windoze.

This might be another site worthy of posting in the References section.
GG
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Offline Michael Az

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2006, 12:10:02 PM »
Well, you have saved my bacon for the weekend George! Great programs he has there. He had one already run for two inch diameter which is what I needed so I'm set to go. Looks like I owe you a dinner if we ever meet up!
Thanks----Michael

Offline Michael Az

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2006, 12:50:01 PM »
George, I counted my chickens too soon. Now I notice his programed chart isn't what I need after all. I can't seem to run his program either. Windows is old and I'm not that great with the computer at all. The diameter I have is 2" so if you could run it for me I would appreciate it. This is for my Coehorn so I just need the radius. Thanks
Michael

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2006, 12:59:10 PM »
I think most of his programs are DOS programs that should be run in the Command Prompt window.  In fact, I just downloaded BALLCUT.ZIP and it runs fine in the Command Prompt window on W/2000.

If you are making a prototypical Coehorn, there is a 6 degree taper on the back that connects to the "hemi" spherical part.  Is the 2" at the beginning of the curve/end of the taper?
GG
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Offline Michael Az

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2006, 01:28:46 PM »
Yes, George, I am going to turn the 6* taper down to two inch and then the radius from there. At least that is the plan. The print calls for a 1.031 radius and I didn't think the .031 was worth worring about.
Thanks
Michael

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2006, 01:45:00 PM »
That computer doesn't care one way or the other about the .031".  If you want it, you can have it.

Also, what increment in the X-axis (actually the Z-axis, along the lathe bed) do you want?
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
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Offline accuratemike

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2006, 02:58:01 PM »
I'm sure it isn't the easiest way but, I use drafting software (AutoCAD) to draw a circle the diameter I'm looking for. Then I draw a bunch of horizontal lines, say .100" apart. (10 lines for 1" of radius). Using the dimensioning tool I can find the distance from the circle's centerline at each "station" . This gives me the X-Y (or whatever on a lathe) to cut my steps. Then I hit it with a 4" grinder untill I had lines left. Finished with a file and Scotch Brite. Some of the "stations" are so close together you may end up skipping or fudging them. I was scared to start the process on the tube, but went pretty fast and was easy. Good luck, MIKE

Offline CU_Cannon

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2006, 03:05:14 PM »
The step method works well but takes a long time.  I have also had problems with cutting too far ending up with a deep grove that is hard to file out.  The method I use approximates a sphere with many angles.  I start with 45 then 22.5 and 67.5 then 11.25, 33.75, 56.25… and so on until it looks almost round and finish it with a file.  This avoids the mistake of going to deep. 

One trick I found is to coat the end with layout die.  When you cut the angles you will end up with evenly spaced stripes.  This also works well for finish filing during the step method; when all the stripes are gone you are done filing.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2006, 03:07:39 PM »
The trick with the step method (rectangular interpolation) is to begin at the large end and work to the small (zero diameter) end.  That way if the first diameter isn't a tangent, you shift down the list until it is and start there.
GG
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Offline Michael Az

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2006, 04:38:48 PM »


Also, what increment in the X-axis (actually the Z-axis, along the lathe bed) do you want?

George I really don't know as I have never done this before. I guess just go with what you would do if it were yours. I guess I would rather go with turning most of it off instead of filing.

CU, I thought of doing something like you describe but was afraid of messing it up by taking too much off.

accuratemike, I have ac but still learning to use it. I will have to play around with it sometime and see what happens but a little afraid to try it right now.
Thanks
Michael

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2006, 05:11:12 PM »
I guess I would rather go with turning most of it off instead of filing.

I have tried filing curves and although they are definitely curved when finished, the curves I get from rectangular interpolation please me far and away more than hand filed ones.

Here's how I would do it.  Step one is to put some Dykem (spotting blue or red) on the barrel around the end of the taper.  Assuming you want the end of the taper to be at 2.062" diameter, I would set a caliper to that length and use it to mark the barrel through the blue.  Unless you have a DRO on your lathe, you need to put a dial indicator on the bed such that it bears on the carriage so you can accurately measure the Z axis moves (the Z axis is the rotating axis even though it would otherwise be called the X axis--left-right.) 

Now I would pick up the ring in the blue with the cutter you are going to use to cut the curve.  Zero the crossfeed micrometer collar and set the indicator to the value representing that location from the list of numbers.  For example, if your starting position is .950" from the end and the depth of cut is 0, then the indicator should read .950 and the crossfeed 0.  Then back the carriage to the right clear of the work and dial in your first infeed, say .005"; then feed the carriage to the left until your reach the corresponding Z depth, say .943".  Repeat the backing off, infeeding and cutting to the left through the table of numbers.  You don't need to back off the crossfeed because that surface will be removed in the following cut.

Feel free to ask for more clarification if needed.
GG
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Offline Michael Az

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2006, 05:52:24 PM »
Thanks for a great explaination George. I have a trav a dial on the carriage so that is covered. But the problem I have is the list of numbers. I couldn't figure out how to use the program on that web site. I'm not really good with computers.
Michael

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2006, 06:33:25 PM »
Have you checked your email recently?
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline Michael Az

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2006, 07:22:39 PM »
Yes, I found it. I was able to open the plot moves and copied them but couldn't open the other attachment. It open it with autocad but then got a window that drawing couldn't be found.
Thanks
Michael

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2006, 08:04:05 PM »
The moves table was the only thing I attached.  There was no drawing.  The other email had no attachments.
GG
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Offline Michael Az

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2006, 08:22:02 PM »
Thats strange, it was showing an attachment. OK, I think I have it all figured out now. Correct me if I am wrong but it looks like I go to the last numbers on the chart and work forward. Also I am having trouble figuring out the chart markings at the top. They are Z  X  Z'  X'     I remember reading at the site where the program is, he explained what these meant but they were different markings.
Michael

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2006, 09:19:25 PM »
Actually the X and X' should be Y and Y'; they are the moves on the cross feed.  The primes are complements of the non-primes, meaning that Z is measured from one end and Z' from the other but the numbers in a given row refer to the same point.  Depending on your machine and other setup, one set of numbers will be easier to use than the others.

You probably should email the table to my home email address so I can be sure of exactly what I am talking about.
GG
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Offline Michael Az

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Re: Cutting the radius on breach end of barrel
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2006, 09:48:40 PM »
I sent it George.
Michael