22 magnum ammunition

[Roudy]

I'm mulling over getting another barrel for a Sportster and like the idea of a 22 magnum but am suitable impressed by the comments I read about the 17 HMR accuracy.  The thing I like about the 22 magnum is the bullet weight as compared to the 17 HMR.

It seems to me that the bullet design of the 17 HMR is better that the 22....ie. pointed ballistic tip.  Does anyone know if someone manufactures 22 magnum ammunition with a bullet design similar to the 17 HMR?

Roudy

[myarmor]

I believe Remington offers a ballistic tip in 22Mag:
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/rimfire/magnum_rimfire.asp
 Heres a pic, but they are out of stock:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=215355

If you want to get more out of your 22Mag, the CCI Maxi-Mag+V 30gr are great rounds moving around 2200fps and if I'm not mistaken are the fastest Mag ammo availible.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=760186
Hope this helps some.
-Aaron

[Roudy]

Aaron,

Thanks for the information.  Think I'll go with the 22 magnum instear of the 17 HMR.  The Remington plastic tip doesn't look quite as aerodynamic as the 17 HMR, but it does seem to have a little more accuracy potential than a lead bullet.  The CCI seems to be getting pretty close to the 22 Hornet velocity.

Roudy

[myarmor]

You can do a lot with a 22Mag if you just know how to work the trajectory. A small Mil.Dot scope, though not exactly designed for a rimfire, can be a great asset in finding your hold over points. You mentioned the Hornet..thats funny cause in the Speer manuel it talks about some handloads they tried not even matching 22Mag velocities. I relate, SOME.
I'm a big fan of both the 17HMR and 22Mag. Both have their place and deserve respect I believe. Buy the one that fits your needs, not the hype of what everyone else needs it for. And hey, if you want a 17HMR then you can always send that receiver off to get fitted for another barrel down the road. The versitility of the Handi is excellent.
 Let us know how it turns out for ya.

[quickdtoo]

Outland has 22mag Coyote loads too if you wanta spend the money.

Tim

http://www.outlandsales.com/tracer22.html

[35Rem]

I get a little bothered about all the hub ub over the 17 hmr.  The first thing they (advertisers) did was compare the new top of the line 17 ammo with the older plain jane non-supreme 22 mag ammo.

The newer supreme, or top of the line, ammo is some pretty darn good stuff.

It really woke up my 22 mag.  It shoots very well, and the energy ballistics are better, at least on paper, than the 17.

34gr at 2120 fps or 17 gr at 2550? A quick energy calc says the 22 mag every time.

I'll keep my 22 Mag, thanks!

[rangerruck]

before you make this choice, check this:
http://www.varmintal.com/17hmr.htm
pay attention, to energy, accuracy, and bullet speed at 100 150 and 200.  most of all check the bullet trajectory at 50 100 and 150.  a 17hmr bullet barely moves up and down in these distances.  a 22 mag does big time in comparison.
as you can see, in one of the graphs, the 17hmr is basically a flat shot all the way out to 125 yds.  9th color graph down.
the 22 mag could shoot from the muzzle to 125 yards, down a 4 inch diameter tube, before it hit the bottom of the tube.  the 17hmr is half of that. 

[quickdtoo]

Regardless of the bullet choice for the 22mag, the 17hmr still has the energy advantage past 125yds and few if any 22 mags are as accurate as any 17hmr rifle. I have four 17hmrs, and a 22mag, the 22mag Sportster barrel has been to the range once, it's just not a fun caliber like the hmr is. The 40gr 22mag probably has more energy than the 17hmr past 150yds, but what good is it if you can't make a good hit???

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_17HMR_22WMR.htm

Energy

Velocity is an important factor in calculating kinetic energy, but so is bullet weight. We have already seen that the .17 HMR is by far the faster cartridge, but the .22 WMR shoots a far heavier bullet. Energy is important because it powers bullet expansion and penetration, and is a major factor in killing power.

Here is the energy of our comparison loads, in foot-pounds at the muzzle, 50 yards, 100 yards, 150 yards (when available), and 200 yards (when available):

.17 HMR, 17 grain V-Max = ME 245 ft. lbs., 185 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 136 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 99 ft. lbs. at 150 yards, 72 ft. lbs. at 200 yards.
.17 HMR, 20 grain XTP = ME 250 ft. lbs., 187 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 137 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 99 ft. lbs. at 150 yards, 72 ft. lbs. at 200 yards.
.22 WMR, 30 grain TNT = ME 325 ft. lbs., 200 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 120 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 80 ft. lbs. at 150 yards.
.22 WMR, 40 grain JHP = ME 324 ft. lbs., 230 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 162 ft. lbs. at 100 yards.
Here we see a different story. The .22 WMR starts with about a 75 ft. lb. advantage in kinetic energy at the muzzle. At 50 yards the 40 grain .22 bullet is carrying about 45 more ft. lbs., and at 100 yards the 40 grain .22 bullet still has a 25 ft. lb. advantage over the .17 bullets. At 150 yards the .17 HMR has an energy advantage of about 20 ft. lbs. over the 30 grain .22 bullet, and we have no figures for the 40 grain bullet beyond 100 yards.

What we can conclude from this is that the 40 grain .22 WMR load is the most powerful cartridge out to at least 100 yards, and beyond that adequate data is lacking. I would guess that the 40 grain .22 WMR bullet retains its energy advantage out to at least its maximum point blank range of about 125 yards.

Note that the energy of the 30 grain .22 bullet falls behind the 40 grain .22 bullet by 50 yards, and behind both .17 HMR loads by 100 yards. Also note that there is no practical difference in energy between the 17 and 20 grain .17 HMR bullets at any range.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/featured_rifles/rugers_17magnum/

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_77-17.htm

[myarmor]

..... it's just not a fun caliber like the hmr is ....

That's all in the eye of the beholder... I personally have a lot of fun with my 22Mag

[35Rem]

CCI list an energy at 100 yds for both of their 30 gr 22 mags at 296 ft-lbs, starting at 2200 fps.

[35Rem]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/magnum_rimfire_comparison.htm

This is little better comparison.

Not sure about his 22mags only getting 1.5 moa at best.  He should really try more of the premium ammo. That is only fair, to compare apples to apples, as all the 17hmr stuff is premium.

He gives the nod to the 22 mag up to 125 yards.  Mine has been plenty effective out to 200, for sure. But, how often do we really shoot that far, really?  These little bullets at these moderate velocities don't do too well that far, especially in the wind.

I'm sure the 17 is fine, but I'd rather have the bigger bullet. That and I already have a 22 mag, so I don't see a need for the 17.

I say get the 22 mag.

It is a shame the 5mm went away, though, it looks better than either of them!

[quickdtoo]

Here's an interesting comparison tween the two...

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69977&highlight=17hmr+22mag

[35Rem]

I'll keep that in mind next time I run into some kevlar armored squirrels or raccoons!

Just kidding. 

To each his own.  I was just not real impressed with the whole marketing scheme that got the 17 HMR off the ground.  Comparing the old 22 mag stuff to the new Premium 17 stuff wasn't very fair.  That's what's had me torqued about the 17.

I really don't think the 2 are that far apart, and maybe they have different applications, but they should both be pretty close in usefulness.  You just have to know how to shoot it, and it's limitations.

Thanks for all the info, Quick, you really are a wealth of knowledge.   

[quickdtoo]

Thanks!!

I've never owned a 22mag until after I had the four 17hmrs, bought a 22mag sportster barrel a couple yrs ago, so I don't have much experience with it.

One of the deceiving aspects of 17hmr is all the ballistic charts are based on a MV of 2550, but most shooters get considerably more than that out of em, even the 20gr velocity is actually closer to the factory stated velocity of the 17gr loads!

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142789

If you like shooting nickel and dime size groups regularly and killing varmints at 150-200 yds consistently, the 17hmr is the go to rimfire, ammo cost isn't all that bad if you look for buys, Midsouth had all their 17hmr ammo for $7.84 a box at one time about a year ago, the local Bimart has one kind or another on sale for $7.99 a box every couple of weeks, so stocking up when it's on sale is a good way to shoot a little cheaper. I've got about 3000 rounds right now, plenty to keep me out of trouble for a while! Unfortunelty, all ammo costs have gone up recently due to the war in Iraq and increased fuel surcharges, it's just a price we must pay to have fun.

Keep an eye on the 17hmr and 22mag Ammunition forums at RFC, if anyone knows of a good buy, they usually post there.

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=50

Tim

[jack19512]

I have the 17 HMR and the 22 mag and I like them both.  I think they both have a use and a place in my gun safe.  I think a lot of the problem lies in that the 22 mag has been around a long time and the 17 HMR is the new kid on the block.

The 22 mag I think is better on larger varmints at closer ranges and the 17 HMR shines for those very accurate shots at the longer distances.  I think some of the people that look at the tiny 17 HMR round just do not understand how devastating and accurate it can be.  Here is a pic of my first rabbit I shot with my 17 HMR right at 110 yards.

[Moonlitin]

Both of my 22 mags shoot the Remington Premier ammo really well.  I was at one of the local WalMarts today and I noticed that they had a bunch of it sitting on their clearance shelf.  It was originally marked at $10.98, then $9, then $7, and today only $3 a box, so I grabbed all 11 boxes!

You just gotta love WalMart!

[Roudy]

Well I finally made my decision and ordered the 'H&R Ultra Varmint Rifle .22mag 22" Bull Laminate' from Bud's Gun Shop.  Was surprised at the price, $137.15 +S&H and transfer fee.  Not quite as cheap as just buying a barrel, but I do have a whole seperate rifle. 

Now I will have the tedious chore of finding which ammunition shoots the best, darn, will probably have to spend hours at the range working that out!

Roudy

[georgeld]

Roudy:

Life sure is rough ain't it?? hehe!

Maybe I should make a trip to the wm/km's and see.
Bet this store you visited is one they've chosen to close out
guns and ammo in.

Just got a ..17M2 and told the clerk to order another just like it in HMR for next month.
I'll test them both on p/dogs soon as I find a scope/mounts to get it up off the hammer far enough.

Intend to ream one of them out to fire a .17x28mm centerfire. Think I'll do that to the HMR barrel, but, may get an extra HMR barrel to work on.

Wish you well,

George

[Roudy]

George,

  If you ream the chamber of the 17M2 (rimfire) out for a center fire will the firing pin be able to hit the primer on the centerfire cartridge?

Roudy