45 Colt black bear Mountain Gun

[6.5Jeffrey]

Question for everyone.
  Going to carry a S&W Mountain Gun in 45 Colt this year in black bear country.
  Who, has what, experience with bullets and loads. I am looking for a medium weight, 225-250gr, at moderate velocity for controllability with penetration an absolute must. Love the CastPerformance 265 but its a little too much for a fast second shot out of the Smith.
  Anybody have any REAL LIFE experience with the Barnes 225? What about the Hornady 240XTP magnum at more moderate velocity? 

[Redhawk1]

I think the 45 Colt would be very good for your needs, I think a 240 gr. and up would be ideal. I like a good hard cast bullet for bear hunting and even defense.  With a lot of practice you can get a second shot off relatively quick. I have a video of me shooting a black bear with my single action BFR in 500 Mag using a hot loaded 370 gr. hard cast bullet. I shot my first shot and struck the bear in the shoulder, the bear rolled and within 2 seconds I had a second shot in the shoulder. As we viewed the video my buddy said the second shot was so quick, he did not think a second shot would of come that fast with a single shot no less from a 500 Mag. The key to it all is practice. 

[6.5Jeffrey]

I appreciate the WIDE flat nose cast bullets, have shot 265 from CastPerformance quite a bit in big singles as you mention. Have a 1200fps load for it that is very effective but to be really fast with the Mountain Gun I have to back off velocity considerably. Not necessarily a bad thing and maybe thats what Ill do. Just been giving the JHP idea alot of consideration for this pistol.   

[rickyp]

I have used the hornady 250 XTP mags out of my 14 inch 209x50 contender barrel with very poor results on deer. the bullets are just too tough to expand at the lower speeds, they are designed for use in the 454 casull. You will just end up pissing the bear off with this bullet.
For all my 45 colt loads i use a 255 gr hard cast round nose flat point bullet from lee. I use stright wheel weights. they are very accurate even out of my 10 inch 45-410 contender barrel. this bullet will put a very big and deep hole in any critter it hits.

[MS Hitman]

9.0 grains of HP38 behind a 255 Keith gives me 910 fps from my OM 45 Colt Blackhawk with a 4 5/8" bbl. and penetrates 24" through wet newsprint.  This should give you enough penetration to poke a hole in a black bear and little enough recoil to possibly get off a second shot. 

[rvtrav]

 a while back on this forum I posted pics of the black bear I shot with the .45colt. I was effective!

  I would recommend a good cast bullet first, and a jacketed second, your mileage may vary. Rvtrav

[jro45]

I have the New Model Blackhawk 45 LC. And with 250 gr bullets going 1400 fps. They went thru three 1" books at 50 yds. So I think that the New Model Blackhawk would be a good gun for bear even tho I have the S&W 500 also.

[fowler]

I have this same gun and love it as a trail gun that I forget is there in its Milt Sparks holster. I also like the Cast Performance 265 WFNGC bullet but load it with 8.5gr of W231 for about 900fps and it shoots very well and should carry some authority if the need came up. While it wouldn't be my first gun of choice to kill a elk but up to 50 yards or so I have no doubt it would get the job done. Also the recoil is very manageable to the point that that is the load that lives in that gun if it was what I could get to first against a two legged varmit in the house. I agree 1200 fps is way to hot to control well and would wear on the gun too quickly. I hope this helps....

[PaulS]

Fowler,
Your new model Black-hawk will handle years of shooting maximum listed loads with no apparent wear at all.
900 fps is a great load to stop two legged varmints but against bear, deer, and elk it is too slow to do the job. It is like using a 45 ACP and that round is not particularly well suited to hunting.

[Lloyd Smale]

shot to many whitnessed to many shot and have had way to many deer and bear shot with 900 fps 250 cast loads to buy into that. Two years ago i shot one with the mountain gun at an angle from the front that went in the left front of the deer and came out the back right hind quarter. Didnt measure penetration but im sure it was pushing 3 feet and it broke the front shoulder and the hip on the hind quarter and did alot of damage on its way through. Id take a 45 or 44 loaded like that with a good cast bullet over a 250 jacketed bullet at any velocity in one. Do some reading on John Linebaughs web sight sometime when you get a chance. Now hes the geru of big bore handguns and he will set you straight as to what that load will do.

Fowler,
Your new model Black-hawk will handle years of shooting maximum listed loads with no apparent wear at all.
900 fps is a great load to stop two legged varmints but against bear, deer, and elk it is too slow to do the job. It is like using a 45 ACP and that round is not particularly well suited to hunting.

[Lloyd Smale]

by the way a 250swc at 900 fps is a pretty good step up from a 200 swc at 800 out of an acp. Most of the acp bullets arent well suited to hunting because there made to feed in an auto. But truth be known ive seen some very good results on deer with an acp too as long as the range isnt stretched. I get a kick out of people that claim a 45 acp is way to underpowered for deer and bear and then pack one to protect them selves against a man that weights as much and shoots back to boot!

[MS Hitman]

Better yet, attend one of John's seminars and test your loads.  It is well worth the price of admission in the knowledge one will gain from actually doing and seeing what a firearm and load are capable of and being around those who have actually gone and done.

[Lloyd Smale]

ill sure second that one!

Better yet, attend one of John's seminars and test your loads.  It is well worth the price of admission in the knowledge one will gain from actually doing and seeing what a firearm and load are capable of and being around those who have actually gone and done.

[PaulS]

by the way a 250swc at 900 fps is a pretty good step up from a 200 swc at 800 out of an acp. Most of the acp bullets arent well suited to hunting because there made to feed in an auto. But truth be known ive seen some very good results on deer with an acp too as long as the range isnt stretched. I get a kick out of people that claim a 45 acp is way to underpowered for deer and bear and then pack one to protect them selves against a man that weights as much and shoots back to boot!

Standard load for 45 ACP is 230 grain FMJ at 850 to 900 fps - the mil spec is 230 FMJ at 850fps. That is why I said it was LIKE using a 45 ACP. The round from a 45 ACP can reach 950 when loading the right powder at maximum listed loads. Does the FMJ penetrate as far as the lead bullet? it doesn't expand...

[fowler]

PaulS. I said the rig would do the job not be optimum. If I am INTENDING to try and kill something on a given day you can bet I will have a 45 Colt Bisley or Bisley Vaquero with 300-360 WFNGC LBT bullets at 1100-1350fps stoked in it. But if I was packing camp and/or meat I really like the little Mountain Gun and know if I pick my shot it will kill anything in Colorado...

[Lloyd Smale]

A flat nosed bullet will almost allways penentrate better then a round nosed bullet they tend to track in a straight line and round nosed bullets tend to vear when they hit  bone. A round nosed bullet is almost never a good choise for hunting. A bullet with a good metplat will usually penetrate farther straighter and hit harder. I never figured out why even in a 458 mag the factory never loaded a flat nosed fmj bullet.

by the way a 250swc at 900 fps is a pretty good step up from a 200 swc at 800 out of an acp. Most of the acp bullets arent well suited to hunting because there made to feed in an auto. But truth be known ive seen some very good results on deer with an acp too as long as the range isnt stretched. I get a kick out of people that claim a 45 acp is way to underpowered for deer and bear and then pack one to protect them selves against a man that weights as much and shoots back to boot!

Standard load for 45 ACP is 230 grain FMJ at 850 to 900 fps - the mil spec is 230 FMJ at 850fps. That is why I said it was LIKE using a 45 ACP. The round from a 45 ACP can reach 950 when loading the right powder at maximum listed loads. Does the FMJ penetrate as far as the lead bullet? it doesn't expand...

[moxgrove]

 I am always amazed when people think a bullet has to go supersonic to be effective. I read the old Thompson/Lagarde reports. It seems to me that the the old 45 colt loads did a fine job killling cattle . I also have read accounts of how cavalrymen shot horses out from under the enemy with ease. Unless critters are suddenly a lot tougher than they ever were before, I'll stick with my 255 gr swc
and 9 gr of unique. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[ANACONDA45]

There is a huge difference in the 45ACP and a light loaded 45 Colt on game. My best loads for the ACP were with 225gr TC from Laser Cast loaded fairly warm out of a Longslide Wilson Classic. It had as wide a nose as I think will feed 100% of the time. It would kill deer, but what want if it goes threw both lungs, just not alot of knock down power. Shot alot of hogs with it also, and all died, just not like Thor's hammer hit them. A light 45 Colt on the other hand, the before mentioned 255SWC, or better yet the 265 Cast Performance, or even better the 280gr Beartooth, loaded at 850-950fps, will thrash a deer/black bear/wild pig, and has little muzzle jump and blast, maybe less than the 45ACP loaded hot out of a 1911. It also does better on rocks, mud, wet paper, and trees. When marlin came out with the long barreled cowboy 45LC, I loaded it light and lighter, and lighter, with the 265 cast performance bullet and got the noise level down to near a 22LR, so I could play with it in the yard, I live in a rural area. I shot several deer with it, broadside, behind the shoulder, all between 30-60 yards, and all bullets exited, the longest blood trail was 70 yards, the shortest was about 3 jumps.