Another question (35 Whelen this time)

[ScoutMan]

I'm suprised that the 350 Rem Mag did not get more press in these discussion. The RM mirrors the ballistics of the whelan but in a case that is about 1/2" shorter. What this gives you is a short action which can be built into a carbine platform a la Remington 600 and 660 series. Its benefits are whelan  ballistics in a smaller, neater package.

[Drilling Man]

What this gives you is a short action which can be built into a carbine platform a la Remington 600 and 660 series. Its benefits are whelan  ballistics in a smaller, neater package.

  It also "forces" you to use light bullets or to seat heavier bullets "very" deep.  I found this unacceptable for hunting bigger animials like i did with both the above rifles you mentioned...

  Drilling Man

[handirifle]

Victor Charlie thinks 35 makes bigger holes.  In paper targets I'd agree.  But with big game animals he is wrong.  Wound channel size between 180 grain round nosed .308 Winchester and 250 grain 35 Whelen are so close that it would take a trained Coroner to measure the slight differences.

35 Whelen hits hard because of weight and momentum. These factors are related to diameter but not the all encompassing single factor many believe.

I've killed many elk over the decades with my .308 and know what to expect when I cut open the chest cavity.  A few years ago, I killed a medium sized bull with a custom 9.3mm rifle featuring the 286 grain Woodleigh bullet. Two shots into the chest from about 175 yards or so. The animal did not topple any quicker than my .308 and wound channels looked identical to me. I sold the 9.3mm after that hunt.  I'm not trying to talk you out of the Whelen, just sharing my experiences.  I'm convinced that Premium bullets for cartridges such as .308 and 30-06 increase their lethality on truely big game animals.
TR

TR
Good food for serious thought.  I often wonder how effective something like a 180gr Barnes TSX would be on elk and moose from an '06?  Moose, by the way, is the whole reason I've considered this swap.  My FIRST caliber thought was the 338-06.  from all my reading it seems to truely have all the advantages of the '06 trajectory and the energy potential of the whelen with none of the disadvantages of either.

[Con]

If you get a .35 then definately get a 1:12" barrel. I've tested the Woodleigh 310gr in a 358Win (1:14") and 35Whelen (1:16") and they're marginal for stability putting oval shaped holes in card targets at 100m and 200m respectively. The 35Whelen would probably get away with a 1:14" however at the ranges your likely to use it. Next test is the Ruger 350RemMag with its 1:12". Whilst you may never need the 310gr, its nice having the option to use it. Regarding .35 vs .338 ... the larger is much more economical to practice with due to the availability of pistol projectiles. I shoot 10 times the amount of pistol projectiles compared to proper hunting projectiles, and using a fast-shotgun type powder makes it even cheaper and more fun to run.
Cheers...
Con

[handirifle]

Thanks con

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I shoot 10 times the amount of pistol projectiles compared to proper hunting projectiles, and using a fast-shotgun type powder makes it even cheaper and more fun to run.

Good point Con.  I'd add that there are a miriad of cast pistol bullets and pistol bullet molds available in .358".  You can then begin to approach the realm of .22 ammo prices.

But the O.P. stated he wasn't interested so much in plinking.

[Dand]

I'm really enjoying this post as I have run thru this debate with myself for years. First off though, the 30-06 will do fine on moose. I bet a good 50% or more of the moose taken in Alaska each year drop to the '06 and 180 gr or 200-220 gr bullets.  If I was paying for a guided hunt I'd load 200 Nosler Partions and save my money for the hunt.

BUT, the 338-06 and 35 W are SO appealing. I had a boss with a 35 and he whacked a number of nice moose and caribou with his 35 W and it was very accurate in his hands.  One moose just missed the B&C book. He even won some turkey shoots with it here. He really liked it for moose - better than his 300 Win Mag.  He used 250 gr Speer hotcores and made several 1 shot kills.

Where I find the appeal of the 338 and 35 are for hunting moose in the thick stuff where you might stumble into a brown bear. Either loaded with Noslers might give you a bit of an edge over the '06.  I also like the idea of some rifles carrying 5 rounds of any of the '06 family vs 4 or 3 of the belted mag family.

I carry a 300 win mag but have always wanted the 35W. I think that would be my choice if I ever have another gun built.

[Drilling Man]

I'm convinced that Premium bullets for cartridges such as .308 and 30-06 increase their lethality on truely big game animals.

  I'm completely convinced of this too....  I've seen it many times where getting the extra penetration of a NP made all the difference.

  Very seldom does a animial bleed much out of the bullet entrance hole, but it almost "always" bleeds out of the exit hole....  When an animial runs into the thick brush, this can make a huge difference...  I believe they die faster with an exit hole too....

  Of course, i want the same bullet to expand fast too, even at longer ranges where a bullet has slowed down a bit....  This is why i use NP's for 99% of my big ghame hunting....

  DM

[handirifle]

The more I look into this, the better the Whelen looks.

I like the availability of ammo in remote places, and although the '06 is most likely the best availability wise, the Whelen would surely be WAY ahead of the A-Square, as far as finding it and well below in cost.

[Mac11700]

The more I look into this, the better the Whelen looks.

I like the availability of ammo in remote places, and although the '06 is most likely the best availability wise, the Whelen would surely be WAY ahead of the A-Square, as far as finding it and well below in cost.

Well...yes & no....Finding the 1 or 2 Remington loads...as compared to the 5 or 6 that the 338-06 A-Square is loaded for...and since your most likely going to reload for it anyway...what difference is there...Hell...if your going on a guided hunt...Fed-X or UPS the ammo ahead of time to your guide...If your wanting premium ammo from the normal on-line distributers...you will find more loads available from Grafts,Mid-Way,Mid South Shooters Supplies,Natchez,in the 338-06 A-Square...than in the 35 Whelen...You will need to buy from a supplier like Connely to get a good assortment of both cartridges...Or...handload...Since there is only 2 loads available for the Whelen in factory even from Nosler as compared to the 5 available in 338-o6A-S..Premium ammo for the Whelen...Nosler or Connelly...Premium ammo for the A-Square...several...Hmmm...it really isn't that difficult of choice...

Here's how I look at it...if you where going to shoot a bunch of pistol bullets thru it all the time...that would be 1 thing...but I don't consider a 35 Whelen a plinker anyway...I consider it a BG rifle...and since I practice with BG loads...I really don't think you need to shoot a couple hundred pistol rounds for your trigger skills...so...be realistic in your considerations...use your head...not your heart...I know the cartridge is the perinnial favorite of many folks...

The truth of the matter is the 338-06 offers a-lot more choice than the Whelen when it comes to loaded ammo...and the last thing I would worry about is getting ammo on a hunt...Speak with any guide service your going to have...I am quite sure arrangements can be made to accept a package for you...If you are driving to your destination...to me..it's a no-brainer...

Mac

[handirifle]

Mac
Those are excellent arguments and I had never thought of the idea of sending the ammo ahead.  Takes care of airline issues and you can verify it got there.  VERY good idea indeed.

I agree also, on the plinking idea.  That is what I have rimfires for.  OK My mind is set, the 338 it will be.

I need to get the barrel (soon), then dies, bullets and maybe powder.  I MIGHT just buy some factory stuff for the headstamp, might.  Lotta money though.

[Mac11700]

Mac
Those are excellent arguments and I had never thought of the idea of sending the ammo ahead.  Takes care of airline issues and you can verify it got there.  VERY good idea indeed.

I agree also, on the plinking idea.  That is what I have rimfires for.  OK My mind is set, the 338 it will be.

I need to get the barrel (soon), then dies, bullets and maybe powder.  I MIGHT just buy some factory stuff for the headstamp, might.  Lotta money though.

Cabela's has the correct headstamped brass if you want to reload for it...Most all places have the bullets...powders and primers...and I know of several loads that will work for elk on down...Quickdtoo has some real good heavier bullet loads if your wanting the big boys for it... I recommend the 3 die set of reloading dies from Redding...they work great...I'm getting 3-4 max loadings before having to trim or bump the shoulder back...and having the dies set up right..you'll know what I mean..

Nosler has several loadings available..albeit pricey...but..their brass is top-notch for what you get...but one of the neat things is you can always get 30-06 brass and just run it thru the dies and shoot it 1 time to fireform..I've done it with both the Whelen brass too if you have that available..Both with the 30-06 brass & the Whelen....with no difference in accuracy..

Something to deceide on...is how long a throat/leade you want....For best accuracy..the bigger the bullets...the longer the throat has to be...I went with the middle weight bullets on a tight chamber..My reasoning is if I want to go after something bigger than elk or brown bear..I can always have it throated longer at a minimal cost...and I can utilize the lighter weight bullets( 225 grain and under) with better accuracy on a wider range of animals...My 180 Accubond load makes a fine long range deer load....the single hole in the bulls eye is from the regular 180 grain Ballistic tip..which I used the exact same OAL and load data for on this group].......and yes...the 180 accubonds opens up on deer nicely..Entrance wound.......Exit wound......

This was a classic bang flop...

If you need some loading data...Get a Hodgdons Annual...it has a-lot in it...

Mac

[handirifle]

Thanks Mac, always a source of good info.  My barrel will be from Midway, Adams & Bennet, so I'm not sure how it will be throated.  As far a game, does, there is a very real possibility of an Alaskan Moose hunt in a few years, and my younger brother keeps talking about an Africa trip.  I want to do both, but time and finances will tell.

I'll be ordering my barrel soon, I want to wait till I have the funds for all the supplies at once so I only pay one shipping charge, so that means I have to save a bit more.  Other priorities have sapped my intended funds.