Author Topic: Another question (35 Whelen this time) (Read 3273 times)

handirifle · « **on:** July 23, 2006, 03:57:44 PM »

OK, I'm sure you guys are convinced I'm crazy, but just to confirm it, here goes.

I've asked about a million questions about the 338-06 and gotten good responses, thank you. I'll soon change out my Savage, BUT, am really torn between the 338-06 and 35 Whelen. I've read all the balistics and know they are so close it's not funny, with a slight paper edge to the 338, but cannot get the whelen out of my head.

Reason being, is the idea of using a mild load and a 200gr RN bullet in it for deer, and heavier setups for larger animals seems like a good way to keep using the same gun for everything. Could easily keep it an '06 and do the same, but the larger 35 cal bullet is real apealing to me.

Also, noted the A&B barrels on Midway seem to either have 1-14 twist or 1-16. I've been told to go with a 1-12 for heavy bullets in 35 cal. Comments?

Any real world comparrisons here?

Thanks for enduring my continuing questions.

Nobade · « **Reply #1 on:** July 24, 2006, 01:55:59 AM »

1:14 works fine in the 35 cal. If you're into cast bullets the 35 wins no contest. There aren't many 338 moulds out there. Light pistol bullets and Red Dot are great for small game and plinking. Make sure of the throat diameter on either one you're thinking about getting. Most Whelen reamers cut very oversized throats for some reason. The .338 wins for long range shooting beacuse of the better BC, the 35 wins in versatility and cast bullet use. Take your pick.

longwalker · « **Reply #2 on:** July 24, 2006, 06:02:46 AM »

If there needs to be a justification then I would pick the 35 Whellen. At the very least it will be a recognised cartidge that would have a few more potential customers when and if you ever decide to sell it.

As for reduced loads, I am just unlucky. I have yet to find one of my guns that shoots well at anything below top loads. I suppose I could keep trying different powders but once I find a load thet works, why bother.

longwalker

victorcharlie · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2006, 06:25:25 AM »

I've always been a big fan of the .35 Whelen.....It makes bigger holes than the .338.......if that matters......

handirifle · « **Reply #4 on:** July 24, 2006, 02:28:16 PM »

Quote from: Nobade on July 24, 2006, 01:55:59 AM

1:14 works fine in the 35 cal. If you're into cast bullets the 35 wins no contest. There aren't many 338 moulds out there. Light pistol bullets and Red Dot are great for small game and plinking. Make sure of the throat diameter on either one you're thinking about getting. Most Whelen reamers cut very oversized throats for some reason. The .338 wins for long range shooting beacuse of the better BC, the 35 wins in versatility and cast bullet use. Take your pick.

Cast bullets, I'm not interested in. Had too many issues with them, and not interested in revisiting them.

I'd imagine most throats are large on the Whelen to accomodate the 300gr bullets seated long.

I'm not looking for a plinking load, just a load about halfway between 35 Rem and 358 Win for deer. maybe like a starting load for a 358, with a 200gr jacketed. I have much better rifle for plinking.

Thanks.

Am still torn between the Whelen and 338-06.

Nobade · « **Reply #5 on:** July 24, 2006, 03:23:00 PM »

No, I'm not talking long. I'm talking large diameter. Most factory 35 Whelen rifles I look at have throats of .361 or larger. This just kills accuracy! Why take a rifle that should for all intents and purposes be a tackdriver and compromise it with an oversize throat? It pays to keep an eye open for this stuff.

handirifle · « **Reply #6 on:** July 24, 2006, 05:08:41 PM »

OK, I didn't realize that was the problem. Wonder if that was a certain brand of rifle or barrel?

Sourdough · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2006, 09:38:15 PM »

Handirifle: I don't know about the throut of my .35s, I don't care. All I care about is wheather I can hit a 6" pie plate at 250 yards or less. That's what it takes to kill a Moose, Caribou, or Bear. I own two .35 Whelens, and the wife owns one, and all three will do what I ask. I like the big holes they leave. .

TNrifleman · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2006, 01:27:53 PM »

I have no experience with the 338-'06, but have quite a bit with the 35 Whelen. The Whelen is a fine big game cartridge. There isn't much that a good 250 grain 35 caliber bullet won't take care of in a hurry. I also load 200 grain bullets in slightly reduced loads for small deer with great accuracy and performance. Go with the Whelen, you won't need to look back!

handirifle · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2006, 07:25:37 PM »

Do the rest of you guys know what twist rates you have?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** July 29, 2006, 08:30:47 AM »

Handi,

FWIW, I shot my 24" barreled .35 Whelen RMEF Ultra yesterday with 250gr Speer spitzers, best 3 shot group was .845” with a near max load w/BL-C2, velocity was 2590fps, twist rate is 1:16". Max is 59gr for the 250gr Hornady SP the in the Hodgdon 2006 Annual.

Tim

handirifle · « **Reply #11 on:** July 29, 2006, 10:47:52 AM »

Thanks Quick. That is a 22" barrel too, correct?

handirifle · « **Reply #12 on:** July 29, 2006, 10:51:07 AM »

I guess that should make a 1-14 twist more than enough then. Now to decide whick one to get.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** July 29, 2006, 03:22:26 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on July 29, 2006, 08:30:47 AM

Handi,

FWIW, I shot my 24" barreled .35 Whelen RMEF Ultra yesterday with 250gr Speer spitzers, best 3 shot group was .845” with a near max load w/BL-C2, velocity was 2590fps, twist rate is 1:16". Max is 59gr for the 250gr Hornady SP the in the Hodgdon 2006 Annual.

Tim

I suppose this just befuddled ya a little since you were leaning toward the .338-06, FWIW the higher BC of the .338 and a better selection of bullets would make it my first choice if I was making a decision tween the 2, the alternative is BOTH!!! But I know that isn't always a practical option for everyone.

Tim

handirifle · « **Reply #14 on:** July 29, 2006, 06:29:52 PM »

Yea, the major lean is to the 338 but the idea of a loaded down load with 200gr RN bullets seemed apealing for the 35 as well. Seems like that load at about 2300-2400 would be a real good deer load, and easy one the shoulder too. Still leaving room for the heavy loads when the opportunity arose to after a bigger beast.

The 338 makes more sense, I suppose. Just wonder if I happen to find myself in a far away place if I'd find either round in factory for at a store?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** July 29, 2006, 07:34:20 PM »

I doubt you'll find .338-06 ammo anywhere but online from Weatherby, A-Square or Nosler, at least Remington still makes Whelen ammo in 200gr and 250gr, and Remington is probably the most commone factory ammo available in most shops, big and small!

Tim

Drilling Man · « **Reply #16 on:** July 30, 2006, 05:55:53 PM »

You will find .338 Win. mag. ammo LONG before you will find Whelen ammo in a far away place, and you'll find 30-06 ammo before just about anything else!!!!

BTW, you'll be a much better game shot, if you work up a load with a "quality" bullet in your rifle, and use it for everything..... Learning and remembering where different loads hit for different size animials is just plain makeing it harder that it needs to be, been there done that!

I choose the best bullet weight/brand for my rifle, learn it, and use it for everything i hunt with that rifle!!

Below is a pict. of me hunting Sitka black tails on one of the islands in Prince William Sound, Alaska with my .338-06...

Drilling Man

handirifle · « **Reply #17 on:** July 30, 2006, 09:48:36 PM »

Quote from: Drilling Man on July 30, 2006, 05:55:53 PM

You will find .338 Win. mag. ammo LONG before you will find Whelen ammo in a far away place, and you'll find 30-06 ammo before just about anything else!!!!

BTW, you'll be a much better game shot, if you work up a load with a "quality" bullet in your rifle, and use it for everything..... Learning and remembering where different loads hit for different size animials is just plain makeing it harder that it needs to be, been there done that!

I choose the best bullet weight/brand for my rifle, learn it, and use it for everything i hunt with that rifle!!

Below is a pict. of me hunting Sitka black tails on one of the islands in Prince William Sound, Alaska with my .338-06...

Drilling Man

Your closer to talking me into just keeping it an '06 than you realize. I'm on the bullet hunt now. Looking for a 180gr '06 load that will work on 150lb deer to an elk.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2006, 03:37:25 AM »

Quote

Looking for a 180gr '06 load that will work on 150lb deer to an elk.

The 30-06 is a GREAT round, i've always said it's probable the greatest cartridge ever invented!!!

Look no further than the 180 Nosler Partition.... It works well on everything up to Elk very well.... I like the 200 NP's for moose and big bears....

Drilling Man

handirifle · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2006, 06:26:31 AM »

Quote from: Drilling Man on July 31, 2006, 03:37:25 AM

Quote
Looking for a 180gr '06 load that will work on 150lb deer to an elk.

The 30-06 is a GREAT round, i've always said it's probable the greatest cartridge ever invented!!!

Look no further than the 180 Nosler Partition.... It works well on everything up to Elk very well.... I like the 200 NP's for moose and big bears....

Drilling Man

I just fired off an email to Nosler asking them if the 180 gr part would open up on a small (150lb) deer. What is the diff between the std point and protected point?

Barstooler · « **Reply #20 on:** August 04, 2006, 12:47:42 PM »

I shoot both the 338-06 and the 35 Whelen.

The Whelen has a 1-12" twist and handles anything, but I rarely shoot anything but 250gr. Speer GS. So what if it passes through a small deer. That way I don't have to re-sight it in every time I change loads. The Whelen has taken everything from Coyotes to Black Tails, to White Tails, Mule Deer, elk, and Black Bear. I have never had to use a follow-up shot. It wears a peep sight and I am very comfortable with it at ranges out to 250 yards. I tried lighter weight 200 grs and they tended to blow up if the round touched bone, so went back to the reliable 250s.

I built the 338-06 from my second Whelen. I had two and this one had a "sloppy" chamber, that I decided to rebarrel. It wears a 1.5X5 scope and was specifically built to extend my range out to 300 yards. I have only taken one White Tail with it. Again, a one-shot kill and pass trough with a 225 gr bullet.

Two rifles. Two purposes. Seem to have similar results. With my eye sight going bad, will be faced with scoping the Whelen or using the 338-06 more often.

Barstooler

Beverage of Choice: Jeremaih Weed
Weapon of Choice: 30mm Gatlin Gun

handirifle · « **Reply #21 on:** August 04, 2006, 09:30:33 PM »

Barstooler
Thanks, I think I'll be going with the 338-06. It seems to have the best of both worlds and none of the limitations. Many quote the ability to use pistol bullets as "plinker" loads, but that does not interest me in the least.

Good luck with the eyesight.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #22 on:** August 31, 2006, 11:52:06 AM »

I went with the Whelen. My reasons for choosing the Whelen are about as silly as the practical differences between the two.

A guy who can take 9 months of "holiday" and spend the winter in British Columbia can certainly have his name on my gun - Colonel Townsend Whelen. '06 just doesn't mean much to me.

1:14" twist is plenty. I shoot 280 grainers out of my Savage. Still puttin' a little work into it, but so far so good.

I do take advantage of the .358 caliber for cast bullets. But if that's of no interest then the .338-06 is probably the best choice. However, if finding factory ammo is really important - then perhaps the .30-06 is the wisest choice.

handirifle · « **Reply #23 on:** September 03, 2006, 10:22:23 PM »

For those with the experience, in your opinion, would a 30-06, with say 200gr partition, put down a moose as well as the whelen or 338-06?

Would one be advised to have a 338 Win Mag barrel instead and learn to handle the recoil for this type of hunt. It would surely see limited useage this way, but then again, so might the '06.

You see I have several other calibers to hunt deer with, from a 243 to 375 Win.

I'd love to say I'll hunt all big game with just one gun, but where's the fun in that?

Drilling Man · « **Reply #24 on:** September 04, 2006, 07:16:27 AM »

A 30-06 with 200NP's puts moose down very well, and a 200 NP at 30-06 velocities penetrates more than enough to put big bears down as well, as long as you keep the ranges reasonable.

I've taken several moose with both the 350 Rem. mag. (same balastics at the Wehelen) and the 30-06. With proper hits, one is as good as the other, with the 200 NP's out penetrateing the 35's with std. bullets in most cases.

The 200 NP is my favorite "one bullet for everything" in 30-06, and i carried it all over Alaska for many years.

Drilling Man

handirifle · « **Reply #25 on:** September 04, 2006, 12:41:53 PM »

Drilling man
Thanks for the feedback. I think maybe it will stay an '06 for the time being. I'll make sure a trip up north is even going to happen before I start swapping barrels out.

handirifle · « **Reply #26 on:** September 04, 2006, 12:46:25 PM »

One more question. What's your opinion of the 375 Win for a moose gun, and would you consider 2130fps (muzzle) for a 250gr load a solid 150yd capable load?

The 30-06, according to Hodgdons manual, pushes a 250gr bullet at 2200fps, for comparison.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #27 on:** September 05, 2006, 03:25:13 AM »

Quote

One more question. What's your opinion of the 375 Win for a moose gun, and would you consider 2130fps (muzzle) for a 250gr load a solid 150yd capable load? The 30-06, according to Hodgdons manual, pushes a 250gr bullet at 2200fps, for comparison.

Will it kill a moose at 150 yards?? Of course it would, but it wouldn't be my first choise.

As for your comparison, your compareing apples to oranges. First off, look at the difference in the SD! The 30-06 with 200 NP's will easily outperform the 375 Win. (on bigger game) no matter how it's used, and i personally wouldn't go with a 220 grain bullet in a 30-06 case size.

Drilling Man

handirifle · « **Reply #28 on:** September 05, 2006, 06:59:56 AM »

Yea I knew there was a huge difference in SD, and I agree with limiting to the 200gr in an '06, seems like rapidly diminishing returns in the energy/velocity dept.

So the BB will stay home. My father purchased it some years back to hunt moose in Canada with a friend, but failing health caused him to give it to me, as he can no longer get out. I was thinking of fullfilling his plan if feasible. At the same time, I do not want to give up the chance to take a moose, just cause he might be 250yds out instead of 150, and no chance to get closer.

Would be a lot of time and money out the door if I limited my self like that. Course would be no different if I went on an archery moose hunt, but it won't happen as a first one, that's for sure.

Appreciate the feedback.

T.R. · « **Reply #29 on:** September 06, 2006, 06:15:35 PM »

Victor Charlie thinks 35 makes bigger holes. In paper targets I'd agree. But with big game animals he is wrong. Wound channel size between 180 grain round nosed .308 Winchester and 250 grain 35 Whelen are so close that it would take a trained Coroner to measure the slight differences.

35 Whelen hits hard because of weight and momentum. These factors are related to diameter but not the all encompassing single factor many believe.

I've killed many elk over the decades with my .308 and know what to expect when I cut open the chest cavity. A few years ago, I killed a medium sized bull with a custom 9.3mm rifle featuring the 286 grain Woodleigh bullet. Two shots into the chest from about 175 yards or so. The animal did not topple any quicker than my .308 and wound channels looked identical to me. I sold the 9.3mm after that hunt. I'm not trying to talk you out of the Whelen, just sharing my experiences. I'm convinced that Premium bullets for cartridges such as .308 and 30-06 increase their lethality on truely big game animals.
TR