Author Topic: 35 Whelen question  (Read 1814 times)

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Offline handirifle

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35 Whelen question
« on: July 23, 2006, 09:26:45 PM »

I've asked about a million questions about the 338-06 and gotten good responses on GB's, thank you.  I'll soon change out my Savage, BUT, am really torn between the 338-06 and 35 Whelen.  I've read all the balistics and know they are so close it's not funny, with a slight paper edge to the 338, but cannot get the whelen out of my head. 

Reason being, is the idea of using a mild load and a 200gr RN bullet in it for deer, and heavier setups for larger animals seems like a good way to keep using the same gun for everything.  Could easily keep it an '06 and do the same, but the larger 35 cal bullet is real apealing to me.

Also, noted the A&B barrels on Midway seem to either have 1-14 twist or 1-16.  I've been told to go with a 1-12 for heavy bullets in 35 cal.  Comments?

Any real world comparrisons here?

Thanks for enduring my continuing questions.
 
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Offline Fred M

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2006, 01:17:58 PM »
Handirifle.
To start out with, not a single 35 cal has ever enthused the hunting clan.
The 35 Whelen is no exception, not a great deal of available factory ammo and a poor selection of hand loading bullets.

Low ballistic coeffs,and rainbow trajectories. I would never own one.

The 338-06 is a performer in all respects. One of the best performers for long range hunting is the 185gr BarnesX triple shock. They dont come any better.
I had a 340 Wby at one time it was a super long range rifle and deadly accurate as far as the eye could see.

Alas I could not handle the recoil this rifle gave me a king size head ache.
A 338-06 would be my choice. I helped a friend design a a 338-06 Parr. This rifle actually outclassed a 338Win Mag by 25 ft with a 275gr bullet.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline tanoose

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2006, 03:32:12 PM »
Handi , as far as factory ammo goes theres remington , nosler conley and three or four other companies out there that load for the whelen . I doubt you will find 338-06 ammo when you need ir as far as bullet choices if you reload you can go from 180 to 300 grains , but from what i have seen the 250 grain bullet will do it all. If your looking for power beyond 250-300 yards then i would go with the .338 winchester magnum.  And i would bet among deer and black bear hunters you would find 5 times the amount of 35 caliber rifles then you would the 338. Just look at how sucessful the 35 remington has been. The 35 whelen is a great choice for all big game to 250 yards in my opinion

Offline Fred M

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2006, 05:01:46 PM »
Tanoose.
You are right, but then the 338-06 is still a wildcat in terms of most shooters and the Wby/A-Square ammo is not an option for handloaders of wildcats. I would not expect to find any ammo in most stores.

The ammo made for the 35 Whelen is like my 375 Win once you bought the two boxes of the stores inventory, there wont be any again for a long time. I know I bought the last two boxes. In rural sport shops you ask for a 35 Whelen and they will give you a blank look, same as when you ask for 28 gauge shot gun shells.

You know during a life time of shooting and hunting I have never seen anyone with a 35 Whelen on the range or in the woods and I have been around a while and in many places in the US and Canada. I have come across one 35 Rem, seams like a thousand years ago.

Of course all this is a one man's say so, not worth much I admit.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline Paul5388

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2006, 05:41:16 PM »
Fred,

Here's a Whelen that's been in the family about 40 years.



It was built on an Enfield M1917 action and has never had a factory load shot through it.  I did buy some brass with the proper headstamp on it, just to say I have some.

Bullets are as plentiful as fleas on a dogs back.  All one has to do is think outside the box a little and use pistol bullets, either jacketed or cast.  It's something you won't find available in the odd sized .338-06.  Anything from 110 gr to 250 gr is easy to find.  The same bullets work in my .357 Mag Handi and my .35 Rem Marlin 336, so casting a 180 gr RNFP can serve duty in .357 Mag, .35 Rem and .35 Whelen.   ;D

Offline Fred M

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2006, 07:31:56 PM »
Paul.
That is a good strong action on that rifle, nice gun. I can see the utility in the three calibers. Yes the 35 Wh is a good handloading cartridge if you like the bore size.

At least I know of one person now that has a 35 Whelen, ha? A good one at that.
I know of one felleow that has a 358 Norma Mag on that action.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline Sourdough

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2006, 08:23:04 AM »
Everyyear I see more and more .35 Whelens, As Americia ages and becomes more recoil sensative, big game hunters coming to Alaska are switching to the .35 Whelen.  Especially the Moose and Black Bear hunters, even some of the Brown Bear hunters.  I owen two .35 Whelens and really like the versatility of them.  When my son was 10, I loaded 180gr pistol bullets in my NEF .35 Whelen and let him shoot it.  We used his cutdown stock of course.  Then when he wanted to go Moose hunting that fall, I loaded some light 225gr Noslers.  When he shot his Moose he did everything just like he had always done with the pistol bullets and the increased recoil really set him back, but due to the adrenalin rush he never noticed.  Neither did the Moose, it took three steps and fell.  Now he is 17 and still takes that gun hunting, only now he shoots the 250gr Nosler, and the original stock.  My wife commendeered my first .35 Whelen, a Mauser action with an 18" barrel.  She had it put in a Bell and Carlson that had been cut down for her.  She is 4'11" and weighs about 110 lbs.  She shoots my 250gr reloads also. 

As for factory ammo everyone in Fairbanks and North Pole carry .35 Whelen ammo.  Now you might not find it in some of the villages, but I know of several people in villages that shoot them so I know it can be found in most.

I really like the .35 Whelens on a tree stand for Black Bear.  Some drop on the spot, others don't run far.  The .35 usually passes through leaving two good holes to bleed out through.  My Dad shot his Moose a few years ago when he was 76.  Dad used my .35 Whelen.  The bullet went through the Moose at 40 yards taking out both lungs and the heart.  Moose stood a few seconds, took one step, then fell.  Later that same fall I killed a charging Grizzly with a .35 Whelen (lucky shot I hit it's spine). 

I like the .35 caliber, I own two .35 Whelens, two .350 Rem Mags, and one .35 Remington.  The wife owns one .35 Whelen, three .357s, and two .38s.
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Offline Daveinthebush

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2006, 08:56:44 AM »
I own two .35 Whelens and want another.  Not one animal shot with the Whelen has ever left his tracks.  Except to fall foreward or sideways to the ground.

My NEF RMEF .35 Whelen is probably going to bye-bye soon and will be replaced by a stainless .35 Whelen.

Inside the practical shooting range of most people, the .35 Whelen is plenty gun.
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Offline tanoose

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2006, 10:38:04 AM »
Hey Fred it looks like you have a few more friends and there all 35 Whelen owners, but i do hear what your saying but i thought the 35 whelen was maybe more commen then most think as i have seen remington 35 whelen ammo on the shelves of a couple of back woods shops. But this was up in the NY Adirondacks were you would probibly find more 35rem. and 30/30 lever action rifles then any other caliber. I myself am new to the 35 Whelen as i bought one of remingtons new 750 rifles in this caliber, i think they could have also named this the .35/06 . I'll let you know how it performes at the end of next hunting season . Later Tanoose

Offline Sourdough

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2006, 11:39:04 AM »
If .338 bullets had been more populer back when there would have probably been a .338 Whelen.  Seems like I read about a .375 Whelen based on the 30-06 case necked up again.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2006, 12:13:24 PM »
Yup, the .375 Whelen or .375-06!!!

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w375whel.html

I  considered  it  when I had a .25-06 barrel rebored/rechambered  to .338-06 A-Square,  but the availablility of the .338 bullets swayed me away  from the dark side!! ;D

Then I went with a .405 Winchester for my other big bore which pretty much negates the need for the .375-06, although it's still an inviting aquisition!! ;)

Tim
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Offline Paul5388

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2006, 05:20:24 PM »
There was also a .400 Whelen and regardless of what you've read, it doesn't have a headspacing problem as long as the dies and chamber are cut to the specs Col. Whelen used.
Headspace Myth

The .411 Hawk is a similar cartridge based on .30-06 brass.

Offline EDELWEISS

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2006, 04:52:36 AM »
May I humbly suggest that this is where a 9.3x62 would work.  Its factory loaded and available world wide.  Its rated for Dangerous game, and the recoil is managable.  Its just a shame its not available in a handie........

Offline poncaguy

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2006, 03:52:28 PM »
I see where Ruger is bringing out a new round, the Ruger 375..........

Offline handirifle

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2006, 08:15:28 PM »
Hi all, haven't posted here for a bit.  Almost forgot I posted this one here.  Thanks for all the feedback and help in getting me off the fence (still there, but leaning, now, to the 35 side) this has been a LONG and frustrating process for me.  First off, I'll be swapping out my '06 barrel from my Savage.  The '06 is no slouch in it's own right so that makes it tougher.  And unlike EITHER of the other two, ammo is most likley everywhere.

Still the idea of a bigger bore always appeals to me, and my original idea of using 35 Rem bullets loaded to about 2400 for deer should pretty well flatten them on the spot, and still give me a 250yd usuable range.  Leaving LOTS of room to move up in power as well.
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2006, 04:35:12 AM »

338-06..35 Whelen..375-06...9.3x62...411 Hawk...all are great medium bore cartridges...each one will take on some of biggest meanous critters around..and do a fine job...

Like Quickdtoo...I considered the 375-06 before getting the 338-06...and will own one just for giggles sooner or later..I  have already owned a couple of the 35 Whelens in a Handi..They were ok...and I should have tried some of the better ammo available for it...but never did...If I were ever to get another one..it would have a 26" cut rifle barrel on it...that's for sure..

Handi...like I said to you on a different thread...6 to 1...1/2 dozen to another...the 35 Whelen can be a great cartridge..as with all the others mentioned..and it's a hard choice to make..especially when dealing with a bolt gun...in a Handi...it's a little easier...

Mac


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Offline handirifle

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2006, 06:06:10 AM »
Yea I can still swap back and forth, but unlike you, I'll have to rezero every time I do :(.

Wish my butt was smaller, cause it's starting to get a little sore sittin' on this fence ;D
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2006, 04:00:48 AM »
Yea I can still swap back and forth, but unlike you, I'll have to rezero every time I do :(.

Wish my butt was smaller, cause it's starting to get a little sore sittin' on this fence ;D


Hmmmm....sounds like a good reason to get back into Handi's for you... :D



Watch out for those splinters ;D

Mac
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Offline Robert

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2006, 06:36:23 AM »
I don't really want to offend anyone here, but SOMEBODY HAS TO SAY THIS.  Fred. your posts about the 35 Whelen are just plain SILLY.  For one thing....a 35 Whelen with 180-200 gr bullets will equal the trajerctory of a 30-06 ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.  Please check your balistic charts before you post things that you do not know anything about.  However...I have no doubt whatsoever that the 35 Whelen has more knockdown power than the 30-06 when it hits.  And the Whelen's recent new interest and chamberings have produced many new ammo offerings that would make it a way better choice than a 338-06.  Either on will do an excellent job.  I think a Whelen in a Handi would be a wonderful firearm, however, I will probably have my chamber re-cut to Ackley Improved. :)
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Offline PeterCartwright

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2006, 10:17:40 AM »
I wonder if Fred's skepticism of the .35 Whelen is more a matter of his Canadian perspective.  The Whelen is, after all, an American creation.  Fred seems to have more ready access to other European cartridges (e.g. the 9.3X62 and 9.3X64, for example).  I see a lot more supplies for the .35's (like the .35 Rem. and the Whelen and, of course, the .358 Winchester) in my area (Michigan's Upper Penninsula).  The various .35's have long and honored histories in our deer camps.  I was snooping around the used gun rack in my friend's gunshop this week and noted the absence of Marlin 336's in .35 Remington and Browning BLR in .358 Winchester.  My friend smiled and said, "That's 'cause once you own one, you'll never part with it."

On the flip side, it's odd enough to provoke extended converstion around the woodstove when a dealer displays a 9.3X 57, 9.3X62 or 9.3X64.  I suspect our Canadian cousins have more active roots with the Continental cartidges.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2006, 12:39:41 PM »
Welcome back, Robert!!! Let's not pick on Fred, he's entitled to his opinions of the .35 Whelen even if we disagree with him!! ;D I picked on him before on the same subject, and as Peter stated, it could be a US/Canadian cultural issue. :-X A bunch of shooters at AR think the .35W is the best thing since sliced bread in a recent thread, it's very popular among elk hunters there, of course not in a Handi, tho.

Tim
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Offline Robert

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2006, 03:53:20 PM »
Excellent post Peter, and Thank You Tim.  It IS a plus that the 9x64 and possibly the 9x62 are accepted firearms in parts of Africa and the Whelen is not.  I forget which ones are accepted there.....I have been out of touch with all of this for so long....
  Why not a Handi in 35 Whelen? I heard rumors this spring that they were going to offer it in a Handi.  Did this get scrapped? I would have thought that many of you guys would have had them by now. Big Bummer.....I was going to get one to put away.
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Offline hellacatcher

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2006, 04:04:25 PM »
I have a 35 whelen in a rem 700 realy like the calber and have had no trouble finding ammo or bullets.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2006, 04:39:50 PM »
Robert, the .35 Whelen Handi w/22" barrel is available and there has been at least one report here of a rifle and another with an accessory barrel.

See my range report on my .35 Whelen RMEF Ultra down the page, shoots great, I'll not be without a .35 Whelen ever again even tho I have a .338-06 A-Square Ultra too, the answer to which one is easy......... BOTH!!! ;D

Tim
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2006, 06:55:13 PM »
Quote
And the Whelen's recent new interest and chamberings have produced many new ammo offerings that would make it a way better choice than a 338-06.

Sorry Robert...your a bit wrong on this account...even with the renewed interest in the Whelen...there is still more available loads for the 338-06 A-squareS over the Whelen...just go to here and have a look..http://www.cpcartridge.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

The Whelen is a fine cartridge...no doubt about it...but it isn't a better choice...just a different choice...

Mac

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Offline handirifle

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2006, 08:58:24 PM »
Mac
One noticible thing, on the web site you linked, there is a noticable difference in price, with the Whelen being somewhat lower.  But there is a greater selection of the 338-06 for sure.
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2006, 04:15:08 AM »
Handi:

Sure the prices are a bit higher...it's not as well known a cartridge as the Whelen...and has never garnerd as much press.When Weatherby lagitamized it..folks thought it was going to be like all of Roys other "Magnums"..and show a definate advantage..It didn't turn out that way when they made the Mark 5's with their long free bore.What happens then is a definate reduction in velocity..Mine isn't throated that way..I'm getting 3050FPS with the Nosler Accubonds and still am 3 grains under Hogdons max loading 15' from the muzzle..This is close to 3100fps with a 180 grain bonded bullet...This is what I wanted when I started this project..While the 338-06's can and do shoot the heavier weights well..the way mine is set up it will do best with 210 grain bullets and below...I wanted a Whitetail & Elk gun in a Handi..and got it...By the way..even though I said it wasn't as well known...the cartridge does have a fair following with the wildcat crowd...and always had...even when it was a 333 OK...Handloaders have know the potintial of this one for a long time...

The Whelen is no slouch either when loaded to it's potintial..in the right lenght barrel..and no matter what a few folks will tell you..there are a few cartridges that benifit more from having a 26" tube over a 24' or even a 22"...and both the Whelen and 338-06 do just that..that extra 150-200 fps gained..makes a difference when the ranges are long and the wind is kicking up..When in equal lenght barrels..there isn't much of a advantage with either excepting different bullet SD's..but put a whelen in a 22" tube..and it looses any advantage it had..The 338's better bullet selection will always be the main advantage..and you can see by Conleys list on that..

It all goes back to want's and need's for me...do I need a 338-06 A-square to hunt deer...of course not...but I sure as heck wanted one...Play around with Point Blank and plug in some figures and see what advantages there are to it..If you see the differences you'll understand..If you don't..then unless you just plain wanted one..it would be hard to justify spending the extra for the dies & brass...and you probably would be better off with the Whelen

Mac

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Offline Robert

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2006, 04:49:03 AM »
This is from Paco Kelly.....It is a good read.

35 WHELEN...

TOP HUNTING CARTRIDGE of the 20TH CENTURY

written by Paco Kelly
- this article unzipped from archives in sixgunner.com

The 35 Whelen has been a very good cartridge for me. But it didn’t start with the happy chance of getting a rifle in that chambering...my first Whelen was built in 1968 in Virginia...but it all started for me, in Africa ten years before that.

I had purchased in North Africa, a Mauser 9.3X57mm built in the 1930s, but getting ammo even in 1958 was difficult. And when I could find it, it was expensive. So I had the rifle rechambered to 9.3 X 62mm which was popular, but again ammo was expensive and limited. But my madness wasn’t completely in full swing...trading one hard to find cartridge for another...I planned to use 30-06 cases and reload....

The arab gunsmith that rechambered the rifle made me a mold that had cavities on each end...it was round and had two independent sprue plates...one cavity was 280 grains with a rounded flat nose...the other was 200 grains with a flat nose. Also he made a small die that opened the 30-06 necks just tight enough to seat the cast bullets...a seating die and a sizing die also. I hardly used the sizing die, because I used military ammo. I would pull the military ball, remove the powder...(looked like IMR 4198 in those days) open the neck, pour the powder back in and seat the cast bullet..usually the 280 grainer. I hunted all over Africa with this rifle and load......I harvested little 40 lb Tommies to one very large Hippo...and everything in between. I figure my velocity was around 2300+ fps.

I even killed a nasty female elephant that was making mud holes out of natives, I used a solid 280 grain bullet over the same load. The bullet was steel jacketed with a rounded blunt nose.....I shot her at 10 yards low between the eyes. She stood long enough after being hit, to where I was about to shoot her again when she just slumped down on her belly and died.....the village she had been raiding had a week long feeding party on her....

I always wondered about that shot. She didn’t move, hit right where I aimed...saw the dust come off her head...thought she would fold or charge..but she just stood there...then down. Interesting, considering she had been such an aggressive bitch to start with. I have shot elephants with a 375 H&H, ammo loaded for Africa, with the same weight bullet...probably around 2400 to 2500 fps and got very different reactions...certainly the difference in .366 caliber and .375 caliber made little difference in killing power...and a few hundred fps more sure didn’t make much either. I guess I was just lucky the day I brained her....

I was also fortunate to be on two culling operations in two years in Africa. They were designed to not only get a meat supply for a number of native villages but to also stop the herds from eating the villages crops. I averaged more than 30 animals a day on the first operation...and that much, or a little more on the second...that kind of sustained shooting with one rifle builds confidence.....

Jumping to Virginia 10 years later...I bought a commercial Mauser action and wanted to build a 35 Whelen on it. The rifle smith didn’t have a 35 Whelen reamer so we chambered it to 358 Winchester to begin with. I certainly learned to respect that cartridge. In a bolt action rifle the 358 is a fine round. But my heart wanted a 35 Whelen...mainly because it is so close to the 9.3X62 I had in Africa...

Finally I bought a Whelen reamer and opened the chamber...I have never been sorry. I used it in that chambering for almost 30 years...then last year I ran a Brown-Whelen Improved reamer into my chamber....and started working with that. The whole idea was to test all the articles I’ve read about the Imp chambers not giving that much better velocities than the standard chambers...well I get up to 300 fps more with some loads...and when you start pushing Lyman’s fine 280/290 grain cast round nose over 2600 fps...that’s belted magnum country. Take a look at your reloading books and see how many cartridges give over 4300 ft.lbs of muzzle energy....you will find it interesting...

Certainly the history of this fine round developed in the early 1930s and named in honor of the late great rifleman Townsend Whelen...has been document before very well. Ken Water’s in his article on the round did an excellent job and it can be found in his Pet Loads articles collected into book form and sold by Wolfe Publications (Handloader and Rifle magazines).

Close friend John Taffin is having a Winchester 1895 leveraction refitted with a 35 Whelen barrel....and that should be an outstanding combination. Especially since the box magazine of the 95 can take spitzer shaped bullets...back in the 1930s and 40s a number of the older 95s in 30-03 and 30-06 were rebored and rechambered to the Whelen round....and they turned out to be thumpers of large game to the first order. Though I found in shooting a friend’s ‘95 Whelen conversion in 1978, it ‘kicked some’, to be british about it....he didn’t change the steel butt plate. And it does need a good recoil pad.

In the stock of my Whelen bolt gun I have two decelerators installed, and a good thick recoil pad. It’s now a pussy cat in recoil with the heaviest of loads. I have no need to prove my manhood or some such taking a lot of recoil...so I tame all heavy rifles as much as possible. And believe me when you start pushing a 280/290 grain bullet at over 2600 fps...it recoils!

My barrel is 23 inches long, it tapers from a good inch down to .70 at the muzzle. The wood in the stock is dense walnut with very straight grain, the action has been glass bedded...and it has both iron sights and scope blocks. Right now it has a Tasco variable that goes to 9 power....

I like having iron sights on my rifles if at all possible. You never know when on a hunting trip your scope goes south...so the irons will keep you in the game. And since I have killed antelope with the iron sights...at fairly long ranges...I’m confident in using them. I have found that for my eyes express sights work exceptionally well. Many find just the opposite..I even like them on handguns.

I’m sure I saw very few telescopes on a rifle in Africa in the late 1950s...but again that was 40 years ago. I had a small sniper scope that came with my 9.3 Mauser. It was around three power and German military all the way. Out of the second World War I’m sure. It had a course post and a number of cross lines marked in single digits that I’m also sure meant 1 for 100 meters, 2 for 200 meters and so on out 600 meters. I used it only on rare occasions....

A good 30-06 will push a 180 grain jacketed hunting bullet to 2800 fps. And that is a fine load...you could hunt the world with it. 61.5 grains of A2520 and a 180 grain .358 caliber bullet from my Whelen will easily break 3050 fps...I can push the Remington 150 grain spire point made for the 350 Rem/Mag to well over 3200 fps. This is not slamming the 30-06...it is and most likely will always be one of the top premier cartridges of the 20th century. It’s just showing that the Whelen is in a much different ballistic class, made for much heavier game, even though it uses the same cartridge case.

Elmer Keith for example long before the powders we have today that up the velocities of the Whelen substantially, recommended the cartridge for the heaviest of America’s game....he even spoke of guiding folks that took brown and big grizzles with it...as well as moose. He also said he and his father used it on elk for many years...

I have a precious few Nosler 275 grain jacketed round nose bullets left. I save them for big game....moose and up. When I bought them 20 plus years ago at 13 dollars a box for fifty I thought the price outrageous...Now!!!! I wish I had bought ten boxes....oh well. My load for them is simple at 52 grains of the wonderful H335 and 2450 + fps. Too bad I can’t find a few solids of that weight or near it...they would do everything the vaulted 375 H&H can do...

Midway put out for sale a run of R-P nickel plated (electroless I’m sure) 35 Whelen cases. I bought 100 and have been trying to wear them out since I got them back around three years ago...still working on them...and now some are formed to the improved version and still going strong....I have used old military match 30-06 ammo cases since I have had the rifle...they seem to last forever....and the match cases don’t have the crimped primers the standard military cases have. Of course finding them today is getting difficult because of the 308's eclipse of the 06. But if you run into some at a gun show or some where, don’t be afraid to buy them.

I load my Whelen’s hunting loads to 50,000 to 55,000 psi...naturally I have many reduced and medium loads. But if I am going for the big ones or the long shots I load to it’s potential. So if you have a 35 Whelen or are building one be sure the action is strong enough for the full loads I mention here. Many die manufacturers make an expanding die that will open 30-06 brass with one pass...then load and fire. It’s worth the few dollars extra when ordering Whelen reloading dies....sometimes it’s just and insert that goes in the sizing/decapping die...what ever you get it pays for itself in the long run.

The old IMR powders on the slow side like 4350 and 4831 with the heavy slugs from 275 up thru 300 plus grains were good yesteryear...and are still good today...but the whole field of ball powders has changed all that. Today velocities can be reached that were attainable only with over pressure loads just a decade or so ago....

The best all around powder I have found in the Whelen...and really in the 358 Winchester as well as the 356 Win/levergun round is H335. It doesn’t always give the highest velocities but it sure gives some of the highest with excellent accuracy with just about any bullet weight with high end loads.....one of the velocity champs with bullets up to 200 grains is A2520...pushing a 180 grain bullet at the velocities near 3000 fps. And it will push the 200 grain bullet very close behind it. And with 57 grains in the standard case under the jacketed 250 grain bullets we are talking 2500 fps plus. And 53 grains under my 275 grainer will push them as I said 2450 fps +.

Remington’s 150 grain spire point is just the berries for the Whelen. In actual tests with this bullet loaded to 3200 fps and a 3 inch high at 100 yards...it is down 14 inches at 350 yards....66 grains of the old time 3031 is still hard to beat in the standard case....just as 57 grains of ReLoader #7 under the 150 spire point is today. The 3031 load will go close to 3200 fps and the Reloader will cut 3250 fps and that’s in a 23 inch barrel. And this bullet is a large game bullet made for the old 350 Rem/Magnum so it’s not some explosive varmint slug that will ruin a lot of meat. I have taken many deer with it...it is a lightning strike on animals up to 200 lbs.

My old notes from 1971 show that I had a gonga load with IMR 4198..45 grains under a 250 grain hard cast Lyman round nose gave 2800 fps! I have a very special built Hoch mold. It was built 20 years ago to my design and drops a 325 grain hard cast bullet...340 in soft lead. With 57 grains of WW760 it gets very near 2200 fps...and I have never had one stay inside an animal all the way up to very large feral cattle well over a ton in weight. It’s a flat tipped round nose, bore riding and gas checked....It just fits my box magazine when loaded correctly, it is the heaviest bullet I have ever used from a 35 caliber rifle.

The afore mentioned Lyman 3589 280/290 grain bullet is my favorite. I can cast it soft...but water tempered...gas checked and Apache Blu lubed, at 1500 fps it is fun yet deadly on small game. Also loaded to around 1000 fps with 8 grains of Bullseye and a small wisp of Dacron holding the powder to the primer...I have take things like Javelina, large eating birds like turkey, and all kinds of varmints at close range.

I was brush hunting Javelina in 1979 when I spotted a mule deer about fifty yards from me. This is a quiet load...about like a kids cap gun. I shot him in the heart. He leaped up, kicked into his chest, and ran in a dead run for about 100 plus yards and fell down in a cloud of dust. Dead when I got to him. The Lyman soft cast bullet was against a low rib on the opposite side..it had mushed the heart...not the ideal deer load...but in a pinch with a dead on shot, it does the business.

When I had this rifle built I made sure it had deep and wide rifling for cast bullets. It shoots all manner of 357 bullets...cast and jacketed. I once had a 173 grain cast Keith bullet loaded to way over 2000 fps. Shot a little rabbit in the head at about 25 yards. It seemed like a long instant after the shot...there was a plopping sound. It was the top of the rabbit’s head, forehead up and the two ears hitting the ground after it had gone straight up....that’s all that was left except for tufts of fur blowing helter skelter....

I have taken deer and black bear...antelope and elk...I don’t know how many coyotes out to long range and back...feral dogs, crows, wild cats, one cougar treed by dogs, and all kinds of vermin. In the wilds of Virginia on power line cuts I have shot deer grazing at very long range....I have shot heavy feral cattle at ranges to 150 yards. And with rocks and such...if you can see the target you can walk shots into it...this is one of those calibers that pushes up dust when things are hit....

And then came the 35 Imp/Whelen. Let me say that I’m not sorry that I improved my rifle’s chamber. But it will not do anymore than the standard chambering would on the lower 48 states game...save yourself the extra cost of reamers and special dies. But if you want 93% of the power of the great 375 H&H Magnum...if you want brass that doesn’t stretch, necks that rarely need trimming, and one of the nicest looking loaded rounds you can find then mayhaps the Improved version Whelen is what you are looking for.

And as for the critics saying that it doesn’t up velocities enough to make it worth it. I can get near heavy 375 H&H Magnum velocities with 15 to 18 grains less powder! I think it is worth it, if you are going to take it to Africa...going to take it to Canada or Alaska...it will bring down the largest of the thin skinned game. And I don’t know why anyone would...except a situation like I faced in 1958...but with the right bullet it will even take down elephant! Many gun writers I respect have said that the all around rifle/caliber for the world can be the 375 H&H. Well 375s take extra long actions...expensive actions and with the 300 grain Barnes bullets for the Whelen...the 375 doesn’t even have that edge any more..you can hunt small game with a 375 H&H but it’s not really adaptable to handgun velocities up to medium deer loads...the Whelen especially the Improved version can do it all...it’s the poor man’s magnum rifle round.....



In the photo....the first cartridge case is an unfired R-P Whelen nickel...the next three are military standard: # 1.173 Keith cast bullet...#2. WW 250 grain jacketed soft nose..#3. 280 gr Lyman 3589 and #4. Is the Brown/Whelen Imp and the 280 gr...the two cast bullets are Lyman’s fine Keith designs in 173 and 215 grains....

BEST LOADS OVER 30 YEARS....




60/4320 IMR
 220 JRN/Speer
 2740fps/3668ft.lbs
 1954Speer/catalog
 
62.5 WW760
 280 Lyman cast
 2514fps/3930ft.lbs
 heavy game
 
45/4198 IMR
 250 Lyman/cast
 2800fps/4353ft.lbs
 most powerful
 
57/A2520
 250gr WW JSN
 2530fps/3554 ft.lbs
 heavy game
 
52/H335
 275 JRN
 2455 fps/3681
 thick skin game
 
61.5/A2520
 180 JSN
 3059 fps/3740ft.lbs
 best all around jacket/load
 
53/H335
 250 gr WW/JSN
 2525 fps/3540ft.lbs
 heavy game
 
57/ReL #7
 150gr Rem Jacketed
 3248 fps/3514 ft.lbs
 medium game
 
57/WW760
 325 Hoch
 2210 fps/3525ft.lbs
 for large game
 
8/Bullseye
 280 Lyman
 1001 fps/640 ft.lbs
 pest/sm game load
 
....make it count

Offline handirifle

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2006, 07:58:30 AM »
Mac
Yes, all true and it most definately is the logical choice.  My mind is made up and when the swap is done, the 338 it will be.

Robert, Thanks, I have read that article at the leverguns forum.  I frequent there also, as I have several lever rifles, in 30-30, 44 mag and 375 Win.

Mac

Would that 180gr accubond open up on a smallish deer, say in the 150lb class?  On a broadside lung shot?  Your opinion is valued, as I know you have only shot one deer with it.
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Offline Mac11700

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Re: 35 Whelen question
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2006, 03:12:35 PM »

Handi:

As far as I could tell from the mush inside her and the size of the exit wound...yes..it expanded nicely..It was a complete pass thru with 1 rib going in..1 rib coming out..She dropped in her tracks...and absolutly no meat loss...I couldn't have ask for better results that what I got...

My nest 2 loads will be the 200 grain Northfork..and the 200 grain Nosler Silver ballistic tips..I'm real anxious to see how they preform...and if they do well...I'll be trying to harvest a bear with the Northforks down with nomosendaro this fall...maybe even a hog & deer if we have the time...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...