Author Topic: Israel (Read 5168 times)

Skeptic10787 · « **on:** July 25, 2006, 01:52:36 PM »

Although I don't pay much attention to the media propaganda, one thing I have noticed is that there is very little media coverage coming out of Israel... and the little that is coming out is extremely censored, be it by Israel directly, or just because the American media (AKA: jewish media) thinks it's politically incorrect to report anything bad about Israel. I don't care who provoked it... targeting civilians is wrong. We shouldn't sympathize with a country that targets civilians. I know what the tree hugging hippies are going to say... America targets civilians too. Wrong... contrary to what the anti-american media says, our military does not target civilians. It's a shame that the media makes a specticle out of every single collateral casualty, and every single rogue soldier that commits a crime. Israel targeted civilians because a soldier was kidnapped. What sense does that make? It's terrorism, plain and simple.
Our government should denounce Israel's terrorists acts, and our media should start accurately reporting the criminal acts of Israel.

I suppose this should fall under the media conspiracy thread, but I think it sort of stands by itself.

nabob · « **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2006, 02:06:51 PM »

I don't see Israel as targeting civilians. I see them as targeting Hizbollah who uses civilians as human shields to be able to attack Israel with impunity. If Israel was indeed targeting civilians, then they would not have warned civilians to leave southern Lebanon. They would be indiscriminately attacking residential areas, which is not happening. They are, however, targeting Hizbollah, which uses civilian areas to hide from attack.

I also don't believe in the idea of a Jewish-controlled media. I've heard how Jews control the media, politics, finance, Hollywood, medicine - you name it and someone will assert that the Jews control it to "our" detriment. I think they are just the same convenient scapegoats they've been since people blamed them for the Black Death in Europe.

ShadowMover · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2006, 05:02:52 PM »

The Black Death

Give me a break. The guy made an observation that nobody gives Israel any negative press, and they have been bombing and shelling civilians. If you have had your TV on over the last week you can see he is right on both counts. We get plenty of video of Israeli citizens injured and shook up hiding in their bomb shelters, but nobody is showing the hundreds of women and kids killed in Beirut. The fact is the citizens of Beirut are being punished for not having the military and political strength to evict Hezbollah from their midst. Maybe it's not fair, but that's what's happening. In politics, ignorance is no excuse. We should remember that.

doc_kreipke · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2006, 09:49:35 PM »

Well, the Hezbollah terrorists aren't members of a national regular army; so, I guess, in a sense, Israel is targeting civilians.

As usual, said terrorists are using noncombatant areas as firing platforms and weapon caches; so, attacks on these military targets naturally produce noncombatant casualties. On cue, the terrorists squeal that the IDF is specifically targeting civilians, and their apologists in Europe, America, and the UN suck it up with relish. It's been standard Muslim terrorist operating procedure for years.

I'm always amused by how politicians in the Free World give lip service to Israel's right to defend itself, but get outraged when they actually exercise that right.

-K

[auto edited 0948]

nabob · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2006, 12:13:35 AM »

"The guy" also made an assertion that it was a conspiracy of a supposed Jewish-controlled media that was to blame for suppressing information. That type of claim of a conspiracy by Jews to the detriment of others has been around since at least the days of the Black Death, when that plague was blamed on Jews poisoning the wells and that people had seen Jews with black bags traveling from town to town, bringing plague with them in their satchels.

Blaming the Jews is nothing new.

Skeptic10787 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2006, 06:35:44 AM »

"The guy" made a valid point. It is absolutely a jewish vs islam war. Many american jews have made it clear that they sympathize with Israel because it's "come-back time" ...the jews were supressed and murdered by the outside world in the holocaust, and now it's time to get back at everyone... it's a common line of thought by jews throughout the world. The bombing of the UN was no accident. The killing of civilians is no accident. Israel is no better than the terrorists they claim to be fighting.
Look at the news. Do you have any doubt that the media coverage of Israel is censored? Why is it that our own media has made such a big deal about the civilian casualties at the hands of the USA, yet refuse to report on the casualties caused by Israel? I firmly believe it is because of the largely jewish population of our journalists. You compare blaming jews for the plague, to censored media coverage of Israel killing civilians? You're a little off on that aspect, buddy, but nice try. One Israeli soldier was kidnapped, and it's all we hear about on the news for two weeks, then Israel is perfectly justified to bomb a city in revenge... does that sound like non-biased coverage to you?
Our media has taken the first amendment and slaughtered it. They're allowed to report only the pieces of the story that fits their opinion, and they're allowed to force people to think their way using scare tactics and information that can only be backed up with anonymous sources. Jewish media, jewish lawyers, and jewish politicans are destroying this country with their greed. Call me a bigot if you wish... but in the past 20 or so years, the race (and religion) card has become so powerful that those who play it can get just about anything they desire.

nabob · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2006, 09:04:50 AM »

I guess that last two lines of your most recent post say all that needs to be said regarding your position. It always shocks me to see such blatant bigotry. It is a malignancy on our society in my opinion and as I come here for recreation and not to deal with such unpleasantness, I'll bow out.

Skeptic10787 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2006, 10:07:32 AM »

You enter into a conversation about a war that is undoubtedly a war of hate, then "bow out" at a politically incorrect opinion that the bias towards religious and ethnic minorities in our country has gone out of control and is hurting the well-being of society as a whole? Shame on you. Your reaction is a perfect example of how politically correct our country has become.
If you were here for recreation and not the "unpleasantness" you speak of, you shouldn't have entered into the conversation.

nabob · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2006, 12:48:22 PM »

It has nothing to do with political correctness. It has everything to do with bigotry. Bigotry can't be reasoned with, so further discussion between us would be pointless. Though I am Catholic, a number of my first cousins are Jews and bigotry such as you've expressed makes me very sad to think that they must face such attitudes every single day. So, instead of allowing this to become a pissing match between thee and me, I'm backing out as a courtesy to Graybeard and the other fine moderators on this site. Any discussion between us on this subject isn't going to go anywhere good, so I'm trying to be courteous to anyone, such as RaySendero, who would like to discuss the subject on your terms. No big deal, just not interested in a fight, which is where I see this going.

elmer · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2006, 06:56:25 AM »

All I'm hearing from our liberally biased media is anti-Israel. What news media are you watching?

When the big bad terrorist uses his daughter, wife and grandmother as a shield to hide behind as he fires rockets at civilian targets then he puts his family's life in danger. It's the same scenario we have seen in Iraq. Does anyone remember is southern Iraq where the Iraqi soldiers were lining up women and standing behind them to shoot at the British troops. I believe the "civilian" death toll we are hearing from the media includes the terrorist since they are part of the Lebanese army.

Skeptic10787 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2006, 06:17:50 AM »

Okey dokey, time to chime back in.
Nabob, it absolutely is about political correctness. There was never a hint of a fight, just a discussion about opinions. You left the discussion because you didn't agree with what I said, so what's the point of a discussion? So far you haven't told me I'm wrong, just that I'm a bigot and you're outraged by my opinion. The original post made it clear that I feel it's a jewish conspiracy, so you should have never entered the conversation if you're biased due to the fact that your cousins are jewish. Here's a question for ya... when a black man refers to a white man as "white trash" or automatically considers him as oppressing the black race, do you feel it's racism? You should, but I doubt you do because it's accepted in this politically correct atmosphere to make racist remarks to whites. Do you feel it's racism when an asian refers to an american as a baby killer? Probably not. Do you feel it's right when a jew refers to a christian as a nazi? Highly doubt it. Why? Because the anti-racism in this country has become so out of control that it's politically incorrect to even suggest that a minority fits their stereotype, yet perfectly alright to do so to a white man. Which is why I believe you dislike my opinion... you're outraged by my politically incorrect suggestion that the media refuses to give Israel a bad rap because the jews in the media have played the religion card. The only thing keeping racism alive in this country are those claiming to be oppressed, yet have no idea what real oppression is.

Elmer, I watch the standard national stations... CBS, NBC, CNN... and all are the same. I have already given examples of the bias in previous posts. The only coverage I have seen that's even somewhat anti-israel would be the live news briefings in which the white house has stated that they feel Israel should use some restraint in their bombing practices.
I don't disagree that hazbollah is using civilians as human shields... but why is it that it's not Israel's fault their bombs are killing civilians, yet when the exact same situation happens at the hands of the US, our own media spreads it throughout the world, and soon everyone is calling for Bush and high level military officials to be prosecuted for war crimes?

buffalohunter · « **Reply #11 on:** July 28, 2006, 12:16:49 PM »

I think we should give the country of Isreal everything they need and turn them loose, let them kill every Arab within 500 miles of Tel Aviv. The only way to defeat terrorist is to kill them ALL, the people in this country do not have the backbone to do what needs to be done. I spent two tours in Vietnam, we didn't have will than and we don't now and probably never will. There will always be some bleeding heart who wants to talk, talk doesn't get the job done.
I realize that this a radical thought but I believe we are out of options.

Thanks for listening.

CyberSniper · « **Reply #12 on:** July 28, 2006, 05:51:05 PM »

Hezbollah and others like them don't fight fair, never have, and never will.
The last few years, they have mastered the propaganda war all too well also.
While many in the US debate various issues on the situation, I see video on places
like Fox News of 8 to 10 year old kids in the middle east. They are wearing uniforms, carrying
weapons, and thus are obviously being conditioned and groomed to carry on Jihad for many
years to come. The Islamic Facists are in this for the long haul.
They have youth groups that would make Hitler proud, and have apparently taken some
lessons from his period of time. Anybody that thinks the current Israeli / Hezbollah fight is
a local situation are simply not aware of the big picture.
Iran will become a big problem unless they are dealt with in the next few years.
The ultimate irony of all this is that even the bigots will not be safe in the final outcome.
If you're not one of the Islamic facists, you will be a target and a victim of their Jihad, sooner or later.
Go ahead, complain about Israeli "aggression" all you want.
One day, you will find out what real aggression is, when the fanatics come for you......

longwinters · « **Reply #13 on:** July 29, 2006, 04:41:08 PM »

Some of you guys must be watching different t.v stations than I am because all I hear about is how all these people in Lebanon are getting blown to pieces and how Israels soldiers are paying a higher price in lives than they thought they would. Also how most of Europe is making Israel the bad guy. I hardly ever hear about how Hezbolah went across into Israel, killed Israeli soldiers and then ran back to hide among the civilians . . . who support them. Instead all I hear is that 2 Israeli soldiers were kidnapped and how Israel is over reacting. The bigotry here is just a sample of what it is across the US and much of the rest of the world.

Long

WmRoy · « **Reply #14 on:** August 10, 2006, 03:22:48 AM »

Quote from: elmer on July 27, 2006, 06:56:25 AM

All I'm hearing from our liberally biased media is anti-Israel. What news media are you watching?

When the big bad terrorist uses his daughter, wife and grandmother as a shield to hide behind as he fires rockets at civilian targets then he puts his family's life in danger. It's the same scenario we have seen in Iraq. Does anyone remember is southern Iraq where the Iraqi soldiers were lining up women and standing behind them to shoot at the British troops. I believe the "civilian" death toll we are hearing from the media includes the terrorist since they are part of the Lebanese army.

This is what I've been thinkin!! I'm sure not seeing anything on the 'Network News' that is overtly pro-Israel!!! It's much the other way around if anything at all............... you need look no further then the rash of 'photo-shopped' and 'staged' photos being represented as authentic........... I don't know of any that were doctored or staged to favor Israel, all favored Hezbollah!

creekbear · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2007, 03:47:55 AM »

I dont know what news channel some of you guys are watching, but i do seem to remember seeing quite a few pictures and news stories, recently, that showed dead and dying jews in the streets of Israel that had been blown to bits by suicide bombers, and car bombs. So how is targetting these people who dont dress in regular military uniforms a crime? I call it defending their territory. The Palestinians want to take control of Israel, by killing all Jews.....Hmmmmm i dont think i would be laying down and taking it like my ancestors did in droves during WW2. I would be shooting back until my finger couldnt pull the trigger anymore.

Jamesrus

jimster · « **Reply #16 on:** November 20, 2007, 07:38:01 AM »

Well, here is my take on on civilians getting killed.

IF...within the borders of the USA we had radical groups killing people and bombing people outside our borders...and we could not handle these groups that dwell within our borders, and these people hid among us....

I WOULD FULLY EXPECT TO BE BLOWN TO BITS BY ANOTHER COUNTRY REGARDLESS IF I AM "NOT PART OF THEM" OR NOT....

I would expect that ANY radical groups living within these borders would be taken care of by us if we think we are going to get blown to bits from that they are doing.

So yes...Israel was well within their rights to blow up a school yard if that is where the bad boys are hiding....they gave more warning than I would have.

I also agree with killing all the terrorists no matter where they are...if other people won't join in to help us...they best be in a deep hole, cause they are part of the problem if they don't use their heads and join the fight.

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #17 on:** November 20, 2007, 08:42:56 AM »

I saw a political cartoon recently: A Palestinian terrorist, hiding behind a Palestinian woman who is holding a child, is shooting at an Israeli soldier who is shielding a woman holding a baby. Who holds the moral high ground there? Of course if the Israeli soldier misses the terrorist and hits the woman or child, the media immediately attacks Israel as a terrorist country oppressing the poor Palestinian people who are simply trying to live their lives in peace. If the Palestinian hits the opposite woman and child, the media pays little notice, after all, they were Israelis and deserved what they got since they were oppressing the Palestinian people and probably started the incident anyway!

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #18 on:** November 21, 2007, 03:55:35 AM »

Perhaps you should ask why "brother" Arab countries do not provide support for Palestinian "refugees". They prefer to keep them in miserable camps funded by the UN. Saudi Arabia will not even let them apply for citizenship, a privilege granted in other cases to expatriates of all nationalities who have resided in the kingdom for ten years.

Israel is in a state of siege from surrounding Arab countries who vow to destroy Israel. The Palestinians do not want a state next to Israel, they want Israel destroyed. How would we react if Mexican terrorists were constantly attacking us over a claim to Texas, and all Central and South American countries were preaching our destruction? Do you remember Pancho Villa? What was our response to him? Did we negotiate with him and accept his promise to never be a bad boy again, giving him some land to seal our end of the agreement?

If Mexican terrorists started attacking our schools, hospitals, oil fields and small towns, we would look at every Hispanic-looking person with suspicion. The politically-correct crown would wail about racial profiling, but would still be keeping their eye on every Hispanic that they come across. Perhaps they would be stupid enough not to until enough of them were blown up for them to realize that they too were targets just because they were Anglos.

When Israel pulled settlers out from the West Bank territories, the Palestinians moved in and destroyed anything of value to themselves. I have seen pictures of an agricultural research station that was destroyed. It would seem that a people who are as bad off as the Palestinians would do everything possible to ensure that any means to self-sufficiency would be preserved. No, their leaders prefer to destroy and then complain that Israel is oppressing them. It's not about the Palestinian people, it is about Israel. If Israel were eliminated today, the rest of the Muslim world would write off the Palestinians since they would have no further use for them.

jimster · « **Reply #19 on:** November 21, 2007, 01:23:34 PM »

I may be wrong, I only know what I read, which of course can be flawed, but it seems to me that going way back into the biblical times Palestinians seemed like murderess thugs.
It would be pretty hard with a history like that, plus the fact that Arabs are not shy about making Israel just go away for ever....to let that move in next to you.
This conflict goes way back in history, and what came first, the chicken or the egg? I don't see the Arab countries wanting anything but to see Israel stomped out for ever, it's been this way a long time, and that would put Israel in a pretty defensive situation, and at some point might have to use offense to survive, since offense is the best defense in some cases.
At any rate, this is nothing we will ever make go away, religious wars are on going and won't go away till...maybe the end.
Yep Woodchukhntr.....what would we do if Mexicans had an uprising here, wanted to take some land....would we fight? Should we fight? (I say heck ya, can't speak for all though) And how far would we go if they said...part of California is ours...we are taking it now. Might be interesting to know how the world media would portray us when we started killing them both inside and just outside our borders. Maybe they would say...hey, way back when it did belong to Mexico, they have the right. Now we don't look so good do we.

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #20 on:** November 23, 2007, 03:40:56 PM »

TM7,

There are no Cannanites. There are Jews and there are Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians", but who have come from all over the Near East, including Arafat who was from Egypt. Everybody wants a piece of the pie. Nobody had much interest in the area until the Zionist movement started. In 1869, Mark Twain, in "Innocents Abroad", wrote: "Rags, wretchedness, poverty and dirt, those signs and symbols that indicate the presence of Moslem rule more surely than the crescent-flag itself, abound."

Of course, there is the point that God promised the land to Abraham and his descendants: "On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the River Euphrates." Genesis 15:18) He made a promise: "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." (Genesis 12:3). Since I believe in God's promises, I want to be a blessing to Israel in whatever way I can.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 28, 2007, 04:18:24 AM »

Quote from: nabob on July 25, 2006, 02:06:51 PM

I don't see Israel as targeting civilians. I see them as targeting Hizbollah who uses civilians as human shields to be able to attack Israel with impunity.

All I have to say about this is "BINGO" !!!

Not to mention that when your fighting civilians, as Hizbollah is a civilian force, they become the target.

jk3006 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 02, 2008, 08:30:11 PM »

Quote from: woodchukhntr on November 23, 2007, 03:40:56 PM

TM7,

Of course, there is the point that God promised the land to Abraham and his descendants: "On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the River Euphrates." Genesis 15:18) He made a promise: "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." (Genesis 12:3). Since I believe in God's promises, I want to be a blessing to Israel in whatever way I can.

I can't stand this. Yes, it is true that God made that covenant with Abraham that was to be for his "seed". Now Genesis 15 refers to Abraham's seed as being his direct descendants through Isaac. It says that they will be in bondage for 400 years, so we know that refers to the Israelites of that time. However, Galatians 3:7-9 says, "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, 'In thee shall all nations be blessed.' So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."

In other words, it appears that there might be two covenants here, one to Abraham's physical offspring and one through Abraham's "Seed." Galatians 3:16 reads, "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

This was the main idea of God blessing Abraham in the first place. It was to bring forth the Messiah to save all from their sins, those who would believe in Him.

And, Galatians 3:29 reads, "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Now, there may still be a covenant yet fulfilled when it comes to some form of occupation of some land mass. BUT, we should leave that for God to work out in his own way. What good will it do to "help" him. After all, Abraham tried to "help" God by providing a seed through Hagar, and look at all the trouble that caused.

Bottom line, I cringe every time I hear someone talk about blessing Israel when I don't believe the current state of Israel had God's fingerprints on it. I agree that it is a political creation. However, I am open-minded and am willing to concede that there's a possibility that I could be wrong. But I doubt it. Furthermore, why did the Israelites lose their land in the first place? They disobeyed God and turned away from Him. What makes people think that the current state of Israel is any better, that they've somehow regained God's favor in occupying this land. God laid out the formula for prosperity in II Chronicles 7:14, saying, "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

There you've got it. Is that what's presently going on over there. Umm, NO!! And is that what's happening here in America? Equally, NO!! So why do we even say "God bless America" without acknowledging II Chronicles, 7:14?

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #23 on:** January 03, 2008, 08:02:38 AM »

jk3006, Israel is not walking with the Lord, but what's new about that? They are very secular, but that does not change God's plan for them. The covenant is from God to them, He will not break it no matter what they do.

Author and White House correspondent Bill Koenig, director of "Koenig's International News", has documented the curses that we have received when we mess with God's plans for Israel. There are too many instances for them to be coincidences. Check it out on the web.

Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Israel is the only nation to be destroyed and then reborn in one day nearly 2000 years later to fulfill Isaiah 66:8. God's plan calls for the presence of a political Israel, a plan that Satan is doing his best to thwart.

jk3006 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 03, 2008, 11:12:21 PM »

Quote from: woodchukhntr on January 03, 2008, 08:02:38 AM

j

Author and White House correspondent Bill Koenig, director of "Koenig's International News", has documented the curses that we have received when we mess with God's plans for Israel. There are too many instances for them to be coincidences. Check it out on the web.

Israel is the only nation to be destroyed and then reborn in one day nearly 2000 years later to fulfill Isaiah 66:8. God's plan calls for the presence of a political Israel, a plan that Satan is doing his best to thwart.

I'll check out that Koenig thing.

Where in the Bible does it make reference to there being the need for a political Israel? I'm definitely green with those verses.

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #25 on:** January 04, 2008, 02:40:39 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on January 04, 2008, 02:08:11 AM

Koening is a raving Zionist and myth maker of the house of Levite order.

Present day Israel was and is primarily created by Arasnasi (sp) which were/are Russian Jewry and have no, none, zero lineage to any tribe of Palestine.
Cannaanites were the for runners of the Moslems AND Christians that make up the Palstinian people. If you support the atrocities of Israel you therefore support atrocities against Christians.

More than half of world Jewry originates from the house of Joseph, and don't subsrcibe to the "Gods chosen people" myth which is the original racist pact. God is a racist?? And don't support political zionist Israel.

Jesus was the original revolutionary against these Levitic, Talmudic, Pharisaic satanic rantings as professed by the Sandhedrin. His message has now been co-opted by crypto-Christian zionist and other practiced deceivers.

....TM7

Interesting rantings you have there, TM7! It's refreshing to see varied opinions. I think that you misused the term "crypto-Christian", which is to secretly practice the Christian religion while camouflaging it as something else to escape persecution.

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #26 on:** January 04, 2008, 02:56:32 AM »

TM7,

Please look up the term "crypto-Christian" instead of misusing it again. Do not let your personal prejudices get in the way of the truth.

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #27 on:** January 04, 2008, 04:36:15 AM »

Thanks, I needed that!

jk3006 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 04, 2008, 07:31:11 AM »

Great stuff!

I haven't checked out Koenig yet, but I have a feeling what TM7 is probably right on. I'll check it out for myself, though. As for God wanting a political Israel...I don't know of anywhere in Scripture where that's the case. Plus, this current state of Israel stinks too much of politics, occult, and Rothschild money to convince me that God was behind it. But once again, I could be wrong.

And why would God give them their land back when they haven't even acknowledged Him? Doesn't make any sense to me. Putting the cart before the horse...

deltecs · « **Reply #29 on:** January 04, 2008, 07:47:18 AM »

Quote from: jk3006 on January 04, 2008, 07:31:11 AM

Great stuff!

I haven't checked out Koenig yet, but I have a feeling what TM7 is probably right on. I'll check it out for myself, though. As for God wanting a political Israel...I don't know of anywhere in Scripture where that's the case. Plus, this current state of Israel stinks too much of politics, occult, and Rothschild money to convince me that God was behind it. But once again, I could be wrong.

And why would God give them their land back when they haven't even acknowledged Him? Doesn't make any sense to me. Putting the cart before the horse...

i beg to differ with this statement. Jewish belief in God is paramount in their religion. They just don't believe that Christ is the salvation and way to get to heaven. Moses believed in God and brought the 10 Commandments to the people. I'm not getting into the political discussion of the previous posts as I've no real knowledge or facts to base an opinion. But to think the Jewish people do not believe in or acknowledge God is incorrect.