Are you willing to fight the war on terror?

[victorcharlie]

While buying new car tags I ran into a WWII veteran who was a bit PO'ed about the emmission testing process and the rude people who "told" him to get back in his car etc.

The topic turned to politics and those who read this forum know my strong libertarian views.........

To make a long story short, the old fellow told me I wasn't willing to fight the war on terror........because I wasn't willing to sacrifce liberty to do it.........

I just assumed I was willing to fight the "war on terror"....but if I have to sacrifce liberty to do it then there needs to be a very strong case made and pointed questions answered.............

What do you fellows think the price will need to be in order to win the war on terror?  What kind of sacrifice should we as americans be willing to bear in order to defeat this faceless enemy?

I, myself, would gladly fight any threat, but in this case the threat is not clearly defined......as they wear no uniform and know no borders.........

I thought I was clear on this but I'm re-thinking this through again........please, help me understand........

[Haywire Haywood]

I am convinced that there is no winning the war on terror.  It will be a long drawn out cat and mouse guerilla war just as it has been.  We can try to derail their plans through intelligence gathering and surgical strikes, but I don't think there will ever come a time that anything we do will enable us to say, "OK, bring the boys home.  We've won."  I think the end to "terrorism" as we define it will come soon after the end of the petroleum age.  I think when we no longer benefit from a stable middle-east, we will no longer meddle there and there will be no more reason for the primitive religion-driven cultures there to target us.  Well... they may still want to, but there will be no Saudi, Syrian or Iranian oil money to fund them, and their efforts will be severely reduced because of that.

Ian

[RaySendero]

Are  you willing to fight the war on terror?

I don't believe that most people realize IT IS A WAR!  As to the link to terrorist funding via US oil import $, I'll bet that there is still more money flowing from the US directly to terrorist groups than is being funded from the oil rich Middle Eastern countries.

[nabob]

I've read a bit about the history of the Mongol Empire and Genghis Khan's approach to warfare. He didn't really care if he killed civilians along with soldiers because he saw the civilians as supporting the soldiers. As a result, he always allowed a city the opportunity to surrender before taking it. If it did not surrender, he killed every living thing, with this exception - he'd allow about 100 or so to live so that they could flee to the next town with the story and make his job easier the next time.

When Rome took Carthage in the Third Punic War, it is estimated that in ten days of slaughter after the walls had been breached, the Romans killed upwards of 500,000 people. That's 50,000 people a day. Those left alive were sold into slavery. Carthage was razed to the ground and the ground cursed. When it was rebuilt, it was as a colony of Rome.

Since we are unwilling to truly go to war to stamp out a problem, such as Genghis Khan or Scipio Africanus did, we are destined to keep fighting a cat and mouse game. We care too much about the level of carnage to really root out this problem. If Genghis Khan found out that there were rebels in, say, Bokara, he'd wipe out Bokara. Knowing that put a much different cast on people's support of rebels. If you were a rebel and you knew, for certain, just as sure as the sun rises in the east, that if you were caught, every single person from your home including all your relatives, would be killed, do you think you'd be apt to engage in rebellion against the Khan? I don't.

BTW, I'm not suggesting that we follow Genghis Khan's or Scipio Africanus' example. I'm just pointing out that the way war was fought in the past and how our different attitudes now almost guarantee an unending conflict.

[RaySendero]

Sacrificing liberty to perserve freedom is the most oxymoronic doublethink statement I have ever heard.
Believing that a war on terror will be perpetual war is the worst most devious case of mind control I've ever seen.
Thinking the United States is chosen to be the world's hegemonic army of world democratic revolution is lunacy.
Believing a Mos'lem terror army has risen out of pure hate is ignorant...study recent history.
Watching corpoarte media without skepiticism is pure folly.
.
You want to stop terrorism or threat of terrorism is simple.  1] close the borders and kick everybody out of here that doesn't belong here and especially anybody from the middle east---sorry you got to go until you can live peacefully.
2] get rid of neocon one world politician revolutionaries posing as conservatives running our government right now.
3] allow the release of revolutionary energy alternatives.
4] stop pumping 10's of billions common taxpayer dollars into foreign political/corporate pyramid covert schemes.
5] stop feeling morally superior  and more exalted then other folks on the planet
6] stop dabbling in one world government thru the united nations and other unrepresentated organizations secretly and openly, and be happy and proud of the country you live in.
7] end all secrecy in government, adopt a government that governs less is best.
8] stop the internal militarism of this country and investigate 9/11, 7/7, and the Iracq invasion...learn to be skeptical of government and its media.
9] study the origins of socalled terrorism, who funds it, who promotes it, and who psychologically programs it....you might be surprised.
10] search out and rid our country of corruption and secrecy in all quarters.
that's a start.
OR ALTERNATELY
1]  just blast everyone who get's in your way, and make alot of money on your way to hell.
.
just for starters....................TM7

To rephrase the question - Am I willling to fight a war on terorism?
You bet - And I'd choose the blasting in Alt1] as the quickest way to win it.

[nomosendero]

Yes, Mr. VC it is a frustrating subject at best, this "war on terror". But if I accept your premise that we should not fight this because they don't have uniforms or borders, then if terrorist attack again
and blow up a single building or several buildings or half a city then I would have to maintain that
philosophy no matter how much is done. At no point will they be interested in buying uniforms, even if they blew up the country. I am sure some will now say that well, we have to get those that did it, but like the World Trade Center attack, they killed themselves. So you either get those who funded or any way made it happen or you don't, you say we don't. So we take the Liberal or the Libertarian approach of watching a movie & eating popcorn until our town gets hit or we don't. It is just that simple but that doesn't mean that the current war is being done properly, much of it is goofy, but when any job needs to be done, we should do those things that work & not once again do what was done wrong, but act we must. 

[victorcharlie]

No, I'm not suggesting we not fight the war on terror, but I do question the need for sneak and peek searches and illegal wire taps.......recently, the courts said the executive branch has the authority to order such things.........and clearly the executive branch of government has more power than any other time in American history.

This is a different time we live in…….computers with almost unthinkable power…..satellites in space…..technology, technology, technology……..The capability to monitor the citizens becomes easier each day……the government seems willing to use the technology whenever and however it wants…….this is something the founding fathers never dreamed of………how, when, and why the government should be allowed to use the technology is a growing concern.  The war on terror is testing those limits….but don’t worry uncle Sam says…..we’re only looking at the bad guys…….anyone believe that?

The Old WWII vet didn't seem to mind the fact that the government forced him to have his car emission tested, but found it particularly disturbing the lack of respect the $7.50 per hour part time workers gave him.  Me, on the other hand find the emission test to be an unneeded tax forced on the local residents by the federal government.  I try to treat all men with dignity and respect and had absolutely no problems with the people conducting the test......actually, the cute little black gal was kind of flirty and I found it some what flattering.........My 95 Nissan, which has never been tuned and has 186,000 miles on it, when tested on the first test was at .5% of max.  The second condition they looked at was 0.0%.......so the old beater truck came in so low that it was almost not measurable.  It appears to me, the EPA is accusing me of having a faulty vehicle and I have to pay to prove I don't, all while the corporate power producers pump 100 million tons of sulfur dioxide into the same air every year.........It's clearly a feel good program.........but I can stick my chest out and boast about how I did my part to make sure we all have clean air to breath........this program doesn't affect the affluent who drive new cars under warranty but is a hard ship on a young family with kids who are lucky to have a car........it's a tax on the poor......and a perfect example of how the agency continues to reach for more and more control over the citizens.

When the program first came in a couple of years ago the county outsourced it to a private company.....now, the county want to operate it themselves.......so, instead of beating down a private company to reduce cost, my bet is if the county takes control the rates will rise every few years..........

Anyway, the WWII Vet doesn't have a problem with what ever the government does as far as the war on terror......and cited the way they horded the Japanese Americans off to incarceration camps........he said it was "necessary".....and therefore okay.....that's when he came up with the statement that you young fellows (again, I was flattered) just don't have the grit to win the war on terror.....you young fellows just aren’t willing to make the sacrifice necessary to win.........

This is the part that seems to confuse me.........What sacrifices?  Liberty?  He talked about the tire rationing and the things collected to support the troops...........I guess the problem I have with this argument is there are only 135000 troops in Iraq and the IG no longer allows the private purchase of equipment such as body armor and radios etc..........so what is it I'm suppose to sacrifice?

I don't have a problem with the war in Iraq........and I don't have a problem with the Israelis cleaning up there back yard.......I'd do the same thing should someone, with malice, continue to shoot at my house, and it wouldn't take very many shots to make me shoot back..........

I also agree that this war is really more of a sparing match than a street fight and there could be many more rounds in the match...........

TM7 has made some good points about the interest that drive the war...........

Again, the question keeps popping in my head......from the WWII vet......what is it I need to sacrifice in order to win the war on terror?  I keep coming up with the same answer.........my liberty.

Who was it that said when we sacrifice liberty for security we wind up with neither?

[nomosendero]

Fortunately we have not gone as far as we did in WWII where any letter from a soldier could be read by the gov. as well as any conversation heard. I don't talk to ragheads on the phone or
people from one of the Muslim countries in general, so I don't think my phone or any phone of any
one that I know is being tapped, how about you?

It could be that the rights of some Muslim Americans have been violated by this & I regret that, however the Muslim community aid the terrorist by not informing us about these cells when they
are aware of it, so they have created this problem, & I regret that too.

Sorry I responded the way I did in the last post if you did not mean it about the uniforms & all of that, but is is what you stated, it is my belief that they would kill us all if they could & at that point they still would not have uniforms.

[victorcharlie]

No doubt Americans are hated in most of the middle east........and many other parts of the world as well.

World war II had the commitment of the american people, but the news media, and the capability to report news was still mostly limited to newspapers radio and movie clips.  Now,Foxnews, Communist network news (CNN) the BBC and many others are providing 24 X 7 coverage from the front line.  I don't recall any published reports of Senators calling for the withdrawal of troops once the US entered the war after pearl harbor.  It might of happened, but for the most part the american people trusted and believed those who they gave authority too.

  This is a much different situration and a much different time.  Treason is allowed.  Political disent, which was for the most part, not present in WWII is dividing the country.  Lack of leadership, or at least the inability to supress opposition has divided the country.  This was before the secularist took control of the schools and taught our children there is no god, no shame, and anything goes....Young men and women in the 1940's still believed in traditional american values.  This was before television, before pornography, before civil rights, before vietnam, and before Nixon lied to us all on TV.  It was shortly after this time the supreme court headed by justice Warren (1953-1969) changed the face of the supreme court and started legislating from the bench.    Perhaps the nation was still nieve.  Information didn't flow in those days but was "feed".   America had just came out of the depression and hardship and poverty still affected a large portion of the population.   What americans endured a decade earlier hardenend them and prosperity had yet to come to most.  Most rural americans at that time lived without electricity.


As far a phone tapping, I don't know who's phone is tapped or for what reason.  I do know that once you set the precident then it seems to be justified for everything.  I do think the technology exist to monitor all phone traffic with software that traps "key words".

I'm also pretty sure the internet traffic can be monitored the same way.

It's not about what the government is doing now, but rather now that they have the power to do it, what will they do in the future........

[nomosendero]

Very true, we must watch how this is done in the future & another future admin. may take this abilty
& expand it into areas that have no relationship to Nat. Sec., like the FBI file joke of the previous admin.

[victorcharlie]

Yes....the fact is, with classifed documents locked out of prying eyes we don't know how the power is being used........and won't for a long time.........I'm just not that trusting knowing the nature of man.

[Sourdough]

We will not win this war!  The Americian public is not willing to put forth the extream effort required to win.  Also most Americians can not understand the enemy, they think they are like us, only with a differant religion.  That is far from the truth.  They are raised to hate us from the cradel to the grave.  They are taught that it is their job in life to kill all of us, and if we fight back it is a sin.  World domination is their goal, just like Hitler, and they will accomplish it.  Reason, Americians are not willing to do what it will take, to get as ruthless as they will.  They have no qualms about making sure civilians are targeted for destruction by putting thier fighters right in the middle of civilian communities.  This way the enemy is credited for killing civilians.  It furthers their cause, by making world openion turn against their enemy.  They also report most of their fighters casualities as civillians.  Again makes the enemy look bad. 

1983, two Hezbullia fighters attacked a group of americians leaving the airport in Beiruit.  They were killed, yet the report to the rest of the world, was that the americians shot two civilians in the head, and left them on the runway as they left Beiruit.  They also failed to mention these socalled civilians were wearing body armour, carrying AKs, and granades.  Head shots were the only way to stop them..   

[victorcharlie]

Interesting point of view Sourdough.........would you mind going on just a little bit?  How long before the Muslims rule the world?

Maybe this is what the WWII vet was trying to say........

I see it just a little different....I believe that although the war has come to america on 9/11 the vast majority felt little if any affect.  They still have their MTV......they go to work, have plenty of money to buy food at the supermarket and plenty of food to choose from when they get there.......Most have a little disposable income to spend on guns and ammo as well as other stuff.......Most Americans, while they watched with horor, felt little affect.

Now, when you take away the cable TV, air conditioning, and especially their automobiles then the americans are going to get upset.....at that point I think you'll see the people rally and expend the effort to defeat our enemies.

Quite honestly, until most of the citizens of this county feel the pain they will continue to watch with amusement as the world continues to struggle.........

No pain, no gain.............Pearl Harbor did it in the 1940's.....I'm suprised 9-11 hasn't had the same effect.......

[Haywire Haywood]

I'd do the same thing should someone, with malice, continue to shoot at my house, and it wouldn't take very many shots to make me shoot back..........

I agree....but... If the reports are true, They've specifically targeted civilian housing and civilian infrastructure.  They're punishing the reported 750,000 that they've displaced for the actions of a small minority.  I think the scale of Israel's response is out of line.  Sure... invade.. take out the bunker systems that they're launching their raids and rockets from, but to "Set the country back 20 years" over 2 soldiers inappropriate.  The kind of radicalism that they are fighting against feeds on poverty and lack of hope.  Destroying the country just gives the radical Imams more to rail against and gives them more followers. 

I say target the Imams that are stirring the pot.  Surgical strike a 45 acp to their forehead.  Destroy or forcibly restaff the Muslim religious schools that are the breeding/training ground for the next generation of hate and terrorism.

Either that or take a totally hands off approach and say, "Israel, do what you want but you're on your own from now on out.  We won't be selling you any more arms and we won't negociate for you when the whole of the middle east decides that enough is enough and annexes you."

Ian

[powderman]

Israel isn't just fighting for 2 soldiers, they are trying to stop the daily attacks from the Godless ones. Israel left lebanon in 2,000, with the agreement that the lebanes govt would disband and disarm hezbollah, it never happened. Instead, the govt did nothing, hezbollah used that time to rearm, build bunkers, and collect rockets, etc from their supporters, iran, and syria. Iran sent soldiers to help the other Godless ones aim and fire the rockets, they fired over 1,200 into Israel the first 10 days. These were all aimed at civilians, no military targets, just civilians. They killed 2 children in Nazareth and appologized, because they were muslim children. Had they been Jewish children, they'd of danced in the street. Israel has shown remarkable restraint. The Godless ones hide and fire from occupied rresidences, hospitols, even schools, hoping for the deaths of non combatants, then they can whine about the deaths of innocents. These people have been told for weeks to get out or take their chances. Those who stay support hezbollah, no innocents there, and I don't feel sorry for them. Sleep with dogs, yer gonna get fleas. Israel has warned them on the air, radio, tv, even drops leaflets urging the non combatants to leave, they refuse, shame on em. The Godless ones actually operate inside the UN camps, the UN has been ordered by kofi not to interfere. They fire their rocket from as close to the UN bases as they can, hoping to draw Israeli fire, they have, and 4 men died. As long as the Godless ones are allowed to exist, there will be no peace. I'm so sick of the BBC coverage whining about the poor lebanese, and almost ignoring the hundred + rockets a day that are fired indiscriminately at Israel. Israel is not the bad guy here, satans disciples are. Like vit or not, we are in a war, islam, against the world. POWDERMAN.  

[calvon]

We had jolly well better be willing to fight it because that is what we are doing and will be doing for the next several decades. If we don't do it in their back yard they will see to it that we do it in ours. This eighty three year old WWII jarhead isn't yet ready to cave in to the likes of bin Laden or Zarqawi...............

[Sourdough]

What do you expect when Hezballia hids behind civilians and even the UN Troops.  Report out today about the UN Troops complaining about Hezballia troops using hills beside the UN positions to shoot rockets into Iserial.  If the UN Troops are so stupid to sit there and let Terrorist use their positions to fire on Isreal and not expect return fire then they need to be removed from the gene pool.

[Haywire Haywood]

Godless ones

They aren't Godless, they worship the same God you do, just out of a different book.  You're far right wing Christian, they're far right wing Muslim. You just live in a land of opportunity and prosperity, and they live in a land of poverty and little hope.

Sounds like I'm siding with them, but I'm not.  It's just not so black and white as you make it out to be.  It's not Islam against the world, to put it into Christian terms, it's more like Holiness against the world, a small far right wing segment of the Muslim community.

[powderman]

God and allah are one and the same. Their problem is that they put their faith in a warlord, rapist, murderer, child molester named mohamed. He gave them satans book that they all study from. The koran is full of hatred and murder. They put their faith in the rantings of a mad man, not God. They see God as hating, and wanting the death of ALL non muslims, but God isn't like that. To believe in islam, you have to believe that after Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of the world, that God changed his mind about all of the wonderful things his son Jesus had done. You would have to believe that 600 years later, God decided he had made a mistake and called upon mohamed to undo all of the works of Christ. You'd have to believe that God told him to murder ALL the Christians in the world, which is what he tried to do. God is loving, caring, forgiving. The God they claim to worship is hatred, murder of all non muslims, and vengeance. Since there is only one God, they are indeed GODLESS. Mohamed started islam at the direction of the devil himself. He tried to use mohamed to do what he hadn't been able to do, destroy everything that Jesuis Christ had taught, built, and stood for, and to murder all who opposed mohamed, he tried to do just that. The goal of islam was, and is, total world domination by the source of all evil. The kind of God they worship does NOT exist. YES, they are Godless. POWDERMAN. 

[Mikey]

What would the sacrifice be - all you own and hold dear to you.  Look at our own history and the struggle for this country's independence.  All who took up arms lost more than we can imagine.  Many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence lost everything they had, including family.  Many today cannot fathom such a loss.

Would I be willing to fight terrorists - Yes!  But which terrorists?  The Muslims or the denial of our Constitutional Rights by an autocratic government?  With one you might win a one-on-one encounter but with the other, our own government, you would be constantly hunted.  Could any of us 'older timers' be able to defend ourselves against a squad of squat from the local PD?  It is doubtful that we could come out on top.  And even if we did win the first assault against our homes in the middle of the night by some jackbooted, ninja outfitted m-16 totin' local PD, we would still be criminals in their minds (small that they are) and they would simply send more of their 'troops' against us until they finally had us.

No - you can stand and fight once but it is doubtful you can stand alone and continue to survive.  If you decide to fight, or to join a fight, you had best have a protracted plan that continues on for a loooong time.  You will have to have a network of support and friends, safehouses, food and ammo supplies and intelligence (the NY Times should do if they cover local forays). 

And where would you send your family to keep them out of harms way?  How would you survive and even feed yourself if the government freezes your bank accounts and credit cards (see Enemy of The State, for example).  You need to prepare for thiese possibilities.

You can count me in on the fight for freedom but you had best have a plan, and a dang good one at that.  Otherwise, you are just a moving target. 

Remember one thing - if you start a fight you had better be willing to go the distance to finish it or it will finish you.  After you puke the first time, fighting sometimes gets easier but it heavily wears at your heart, your mind and your poor old body.  If you decide to fight, you have to take it to them and keep them boxed up where they are - that means a city/country dichotomy (?), so they either can't or won't come to you. 

But understand that people like the klintons, shumers, kennedys and fiensteins will happily call in the National Guard on you, because you are a threat and then youwould have to deal with that, too.

A war ain't one focused little encounter - they take on lives of their own and spread out like oil on water.  The collateral damage is beyond what most of us have evern encountered and you need to consider all of this before you make your call to arms.  JMHO.  Mikey.

[Haywire Haywood]

The koran is full of hatred and murder. They see God as hating, and wanting the death of ALL non muslims.

From what I've seen quoted from the Koran, altho I don't personally know if it was quoted out of context or not, it certainly appears that you are correct and their ideas about what God/Allah wants is 180 degrees from the Christian perspective.

Ian

[powderman]

HAYWIRE. I had copies of different passages from the koran where muslims are instructed to lay in wait for the infidels, uhhhh, thats us, and kill them wherever they are found. Mohamed took a 6 year old child for his wife, must have been an exciting wedding night for them both. Their mohamed was a lot of things, but being a prophet of God was not one of them. I hope the world wakes up and sees islam for the fast growing cancer it is. Osama said the other day that he has ordered al queda to help hezbollah wipe out Israel. He also said that the entire world was his battleground.  If syria enters the battle, as I believe they and iran both will, things will get nasty. The complete destruction of damascus is foretold in Jeremiah. We'll see. POWDERMAN. 

[jimster]

Am I willing to fight the war on terror?
Yes. But it must be clear in order to win, we must do what might look repulsive to many people. It's my opinion if we are not willing to fizz them out, including any countries that harbor them, even if those countries say they can't help it, then we can forget winning anything soon. I'm my view, Israel has the right idea, although I feel they waited too long, and we are also guilty of that as well.
Somebody has to step up to the plate and say enough is enough, and use massive force, and be willing to make countries pay dearly for harboring this kind of behavior.
Majority...seems to be a word people use a lot these days. They are always telling us the polls, trying to get this majority thing in our heads.
Well, drop your wallet in a bad part of the city, and see what the majority of people will do with that. Majority don't mean crap to me anymore, as I feel it's highly possible that in many casses the majority of people are corrupt and self serving (in some places, although I also know there are still lots of good people too)

Winning a war these days seems to be hard, because of restraints and restrictions.
Our enemy does not have any restraints or restrictions. We best realize that in a hurry.

Wining a war does not mean being popular or looking good....it might mean leveling everything in sight, until it gets so bad that people start turning in and pointing out the real bad guys...or even helping to fight them...just to survive themselves.
To get rid of cancer, sometimes you have to crush a few good cells along with the bad cells...but if you don't crush something, you'll lose for sure.
This ain't a pretty thing, and we are runing out of time and options. I don't think dragging our feet has done us much good.


 

[ironglow]

Powderman::

   You are "spot on " brother...I personally believe old Satan set up his false religion just so he would have the hierarchy in place for him when he is reintroduced during the "end times" events..
    His minions are already practicing his favorite form of execution..beheading, as they are expected to do then.
   Just as Satan's other servant Herod, had John the Baptist beheaded !

   VC;
 
   Youi ask just what the price of winning the War on Terror will be...you should rather, be asking what the price of LOSING the war on terror would be !!
     

[williamlayton]

To fight this war on terror one must ask several questions.
Do I know who to fight.
Can I limit this fight to their shores.
Can I ever put them in a position that they will change.
If I killed all, would I really have killed all.
Can I trust them to negoiate.
Will I be able to really prevent them from committing acts of terrorism on our soil.
What method of fighting, even Nabob's, would be effective.
Folks we will fight them until the returning. They have given us no choice. they will continue the fight.
Blessings

[victorcharlie]

Powderman::

   You are "spot on " brother...I personally believe old Satan set up his false religion just so he would have the hierarchy in place for him when he is reintroduced during the "end times" events..
    His minions are already practicing his favorite form of execution..beheading, as they are expected to do then.
   Just as Satan's other servant Herod, had John the Baptist beheaded !

   VC;
 
   Youi ask just what the price of winning the War on Terror will be...you should rather, be asking what the price of LOSING the war on terror would be !!
     

I think we all know what happens if we loose.........

It seems to me this is another "limited" war........and lessons learned by us in Korea and vietnam as well as the russians in afganastan should have taught us something.........

[powderman]

The Godless ones cannot be trusted to keep their word, their words are worthless. Israel took their word and is now fighting on 2 fronts. Hamas promised to keep the peace, Israel gave them land, they lied. Lebanon promised to disarm hezbollah, So Israel left lebanon, they lied. The Godless ones used the last 6 years to build up their military and aquire over 12,000 missles to kill Jews with. Iran and syria are supplying them with money, weapons, etc, because they too want all of Israel dead. The Godless ones hate Israel because they are Gods chosen people. If Christians would stand by their faith as strongly as the Godless ones do, it would be a much better world. Modern day  America doesn't have the guts to do what is necessary to stop this evil that is befalling the world. The only thing that will give Israel peace is to kill every single hamas, and hezbollah supporter, and they might just do that if pushed too far. Last night I heard on tv that the Godless ones are seeking missles with poison gases to hit Tel Aviv with. Syria has them and is trying to get them there. If they hit Tel Aviv with poison gas, all bets are off. Most assuredly Damascus will cease to exist. Israel has said, they gassed us once, never again. The Godless ones fired new longer range missles yesterday, 4 fell in unpopulated areas. That moron in iran may yet get his war, he's sure been asking for it. If it were not for outside interference and pressure from the rest of the world, Israel would have peace in a few short days. The Godless ones would cease to exist, there would be no palestinian problem, because they wouldn't exist. Were it not for the influence of the United States, I believe the Israel of old would have resurfaced and destroyed her enemies. I pray daily for our troops, those of our allies, and Israel. I also pray that God will help us seek out those disciples of satan and help us destroy them. I believe that we would have been hit here, several times over, if it weren't for the aggressive actions of George Bush. I pray daily for him, and thank God for giving us a real man in our time of need. I believe the dumcraps would still be appologizing for building the twin towers in the way of the Godless ones stolen planes if they had been elected. It's getting late, see ya tomorrow. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

VC;

  I beg to differ with you on the "limited war" hypothesis...

   Too soon, people have forgotten that THEY brought this war to us ! They blew away our most impressive commercial buildings, tried to blow away our military nerve center (pentagon) and due to the action of a few American heroes, were prevented from destroying our very US Capitol building...
   
   The wars you mentioned such as Vietnam and Korea...
 
   Did those Vietnamese and Koreans also blow up night clubs, pizza parlors and day care centers in Bali, Australia, Jerusalem, Indonesia ? Did they blow up our navy ships in  friendly harbors ? Did they plot to destroy our Statue of Liberty, Brooklyn bridge, Sears Tower...and how many other American landmarks ?
 
   No my friend...if we " cut and run " in the middle east, as the Dremocrats would have us do..these savages would FOLLOW US HOME !
 
   WE don't need any of those 'touchy-feely" liberal decisions now

   I am very proud of my Marine Spec Ops grandson..he and all the other young men in his unit that I have met ..are real heroes, in my eyes....

      They heve the fortitude and zeal that many LESSER young men in our society do not possess.
 
  I note with curiosity that when speaking of my pride in my grandson...some folks I talk to condemn our efforts in the War on Terror..
 
  They whine about the casualties..yes each life is precious...but they iuse it as a foil for anti-Americanism, as I see it !

   Each time I talk with one of these who whine over the casualties...I make it a point to ask them the basis for their great concern...Do they have a son, grandson or nephew in the combat zone ?

   Most often, they don't even have a distant cousin serving their country in the war zone...

  If the first WTC attack, 9/11, Killings in India, train bombings in Spain, bus bombings in London, Night club bombings in Bali & Australia, attempts to "behead" the Canadian Prime minister and many other examples
aren't enough for any clear thinking person to see that this is a world-wide war...then I cannot help but figure they are in complete denial !


    Sorry; denial will not stop terrorism..

[powderman]

IRONGLOW. Right you are Sir. Last week osama said the the entire world was his battlefield. The Godless ones are everywhere. POWDERMAN. 

[WmRoy]

The only problem I have with fighting the war on terror is that they won't recruit 46 year old over weight bald men........... if they did I'd be there!

If you're not willing to fight your enemies to preserve your freedoms what good is it for your government to guarantee you any freedoms?  Seems to me before long your enemy will just take over and then you'll know what it's like not to have ANY freedom.............

Seriously, I still think the military could use old geezer's like me to drive trucks and such......... I can see why they might not put old men in the front lines (slow reflexes and bi-focals probably don't work so well in combat) but certainly there are other jobs??