Author Topic: Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from  (Read 941 times)

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TM7

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Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from
« on: July 26, 2006, 03:35:14 PM »
From Pat Buchanan. Haven't heard from him recently? Well here is his take on the recent conflicts and it is a wee bit different than the neocon media reports.....TM7
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July 19, 2006 
Where Are Bush's Critics Now?
 
by Patrick J. Buchanan
When Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert unleashed his navy and air force on Lebanon, accusing that tiny nation of an "act of war," the last pillar of Bush's Middle East policy collapsed.

First came capitulation on the Bush Doctrine, as Pyongyang and Tehran defied Bush's dictum: The world's worst regimes will not be allowed to acquire the world's worst weapons. Then came suspension of the democracy crusade as Islamic militants exploited free elections to advance to power and office in Egypt, Lebanon, Gaza, the West Bank, Iraq, and Iran.

Now Israel's rampage against a defenseless Lebanon – smashing airport runways, fuel tanks, power plants, gas stations, lighthouses, bridges, roads, and the occasional refugee convoy – has exposed Bush's folly in subcontracting U.S. policy out to Tel Aviv, thus making Israel the custodian of our reputation and interests in the Middle East.

The Lebanon that Israel, with Bush's blessing, is smashing up has a pro-American government, heretofore considered a shining example of his democracy crusade. Yet, asked in St. Petersburg if he would urge Israel to use restraint in its air strikes, Bush sounded less like the leader of the Free World than some bellicose city councilman from Brooklyn Heights.

What Israel is up to was described by its Army Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz when he threatened to "turn back the clock in Lebanon 20 years."

Olmert seized upon Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers to unleash the IDF in a pre-planned attack to make the Lebanese people suffer until the Lebanese government disarms Hezbollah, a task the Israeli army could not accomplish in 18 years of occupation.

Israel is doing the same to the Palestinians. To punish these people for the crime of electing Hamas, Olmert imposed an economic blockade of Gaza and the West Bank and withheld the $50 million in monthly tax and customs receipts due the Palestinians.

Then, Israel instructed the United States to terminate all aid to the Palestinian Authority, though Bush himself had called for the elections and for the participation of Hamas. Our Crawford cowboy meekly complied.

The predictable result: Fatah and Hamas fell to fratricidal fighting, and Hamas militants began launching Qassam rockets over the fence from Gaza into Israel. Hamas then tunneled into Israel, killed two soldiers, captured one, took him back into Gaza, and demanded a prisoner exchange.

Israel's response was to abduct half of the Palestinian cabinet and parliament and blow up a $50 million U.S.-insured power plant. That cut off electricity for half a million Palestinians. Their food spoiled, their water could not be purified, and their families sweltered in the summer heat of the Gaza desert. One family of seven was wiped out on a beach by what the IDF assures us was an errant artillery shell.

Let it be said: Israel has a right to defend herself, a right to counterattack against Hezbollah and Hamas, a right to clean out bases from which Katyusha or Qassam rockets are being fired, and a right to occupy land from which attacks are mounted on her people.

But what Israel is doing is imposing deliberate suffering on civilians, collective punishment on innocent people, to force them to do something they are powerless to do: disarm the gunmen among them. Such a policy violates international law and comports neither with our values nor our interests. It is un-American and un-Christian.

But where are the Christians? Why is Pope Benedict virtually alone among Christian leaders to have spoken out against what is being done to Lebanese Christians and Muslims?

When al-Qaeda captured two U.S. soldiers and barbarically butchered them, the U.S. Army did not smash power plants across the Sunni Triangle. Why then is Bush not only silent but openly supportive when Israelis do this?

Democrats attack Bush for crimes of which he is not guilty, including Haditha and Abu Ghraib. Why are they, too, silent when Israel pursues a conscious policy of collective punishment of innocent peoples?

Britain's diplomatic goal in two world wars was to bring the naive cousins in, to "pull their chestnuts out of the fire." Israel and her paid and pro-bono agents here appear determined to expand the Iraq war into Syria and Iran, and have America fight and finish all of Israel's enemies.

That Tel Aviv is maneuvering us to fight its wars is understandable. That Americans are ignorant of, or complicit in this, is deplorable.

Already, Bush is ranting about Syria being behind the Hezbollah capture of the Israeli soldiers. But where is the proof?

Who is whispering in his ear? The same people who told him Iraq was maybe months away from an atom bomb, that an invasion would be a "cakewalk," that he would be Churchill, that U.S. troops would be greeted with candy and flowers, that democracy would break out across the region, that Palestinians and Israelis would then sit down and make peace?

How much must America pay for the education of this man?
 
 

Offline ShadowMover

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Re: Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2006, 05:29:16 PM »
Pat seems to have summed it up nicely.   I'm afraid the answer to his question is all our money and blood. They are already talking about an 'International Force" to 'guard' the border. Guess who's troops will be manning the border? Guess who will be paying for the privilege?   They can't guard our border, but you can bet they'll scrape up enough troops to keep the Lebanese spray paint graffiti off the wrecked buildings. 

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2006, 03:06:44 AM »
SM, that is a very good point.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2006, 05:41:25 AM »
That was a slanted article (NO, Pat Buchanon slanted?) and the logic is tenous at best.  For instance he says that when 2 Americans were captured by Iraqi insurgents the US didn't bomb power stations across Iraq.  True, but the implication he's drawing (that Israels reaction is wrong) rests on the premise that the two situations are comparable.  They are not.  The US is spending billions trying to build and prop up Iraq.  Israel isn't spending a wooden nickel on reconstruction efforts in Lebanon.  The US is trying to build and sustain an ally in a region of the world that is unquestionably important to our economic and defense interests.  Israel is exists in that region.  The situations are entirely different.

I doubt US troops will be major players in the peace keeping.  A few troops, maybe.  The EU will come up with most of them, if they are deployed at all.

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2006, 07:07:41 AM »
Isreal is fighting for it's very existance.  If the muslum world had their way Isreal would not exist.  What's going to happen when some of Saddam's WMD, that was sperited away to Syria, starts showing up on rockets fired into Isreal?  The Lebanonise need to clean up their backyard before Isreal turns it to glass.  As a vet, with four Hezbullia notches on his gun, I'm behind Isreal 100%.
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Offline victorcharlie

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Re: Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2006, 09:49:41 AM »
That was a slanted article (NO, Pat Buchanon slanted?) and the logic is tenous at best.  For instance he says that when 2 Americans were captured by Iraqi insurgents the US didn't bomb power stations across Iraq.  True, but the implication he's drawing (that Israels reaction is wrong) rests on the premise that the two situations are comparable.  They are not.  The US is spending billions trying to build and prop up Iraq.  Israel isn't spending a wooden nickel on reconstruction efforts in Lebanon.  The US is trying to build and sustain an ally in a region of the world that is unquestionably important to our economic and defense interests.  Israel is exists in that region.  The situations are entirely different.

I doubt US troops will be major players in the peace keeping.  A few troops, maybe.  The EU will come up with most of them, if they are deployed at all.

The latest new's I've seen reported that the Isrealies will accept no solution that does not include the Americans........I view the whole situation as very dangerous indeed.........Are the lessons learned by WWI to be repeated again?

The one good thing about this forum is that both sides seem to have been represented.......and both sides present valid and legitimate arguements.........hard for a simple mind like mine to sort through......

Hopefully we'll see great diplomats emerge........but the hatred between the jews and the Muslims runs deep.   I suspect the time for diplomacy has passed yet still hope we don't get sucked into another world war.......Newt Gingrich has already call it the beginning of WWIII........no doubt a series of events have occured which appear to have set things in motion.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
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Offline RaySendero

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Re: Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2006, 02:57:06 PM »
When it comes to Israel the Americans are always involved, especially those of us that pay taxes.....The question is, if things really turn bad for Israel, really bad, will the Americans pull their support and let them sink? Its been done before. Nah!...I guess not.

..................TM7

TM7,
You worry about this too much.  Its not our fight and Israel don't need our help!
    Ray

Offline ShadowMover

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Re: Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2006, 04:09:46 PM »
When it comes to Israel the Americans are always involved, especially those of us that pay taxes.....The question is, if things really turn bad for Israel, really bad, will the Americans pull their support and let them sink? Its been done before. Nah!...I guess not.

..................TM7

TM7,
You worry about this too much.  Its not our fight and Israel don't need our help!

He worries too much? Maybe he remembers too much. I remember.
"Each rose, 270 in number and red,white and blue in color, represents the American servicemen who died in 1983 while trying to bring peace to a battered Beirut." 

http://www.beirut-memorial.org/ceremonies/15th/articles/pain.html

Why wouldn't Israel let us guard their northern border?  They will sure let us pay for all the munitions and fuel they are using. I guess that's not really 'helping', is it?   You are right about it not being our fight.   

Offline RaySendero

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Re: Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2006, 03:43:48 AM »
He worries too much? Maybe he remembers too much. I remember.
"Each rose, 270 in number and red,white and blue in color, represents the American servicemen who died in 1983 while trying to bring peace to a battered Beirut." 

http://www.beirut-memorial.org/ceremonies/15th/articles/pain.html

Why wouldn't Israel let us guard their northern border?  They will sure let us pay for all the munitions and fuel they are using. I guess that's not really 'helping', is it?   You are right about it not being our fight.   


ShadowMover,
Remembering fallen soldiers is good.  Learning lessons is also good.
Y'alls kind of thinking can get us more involved including putting our troops in harms way!
AND NO WE DON'T WANT TO GUARD ISRAEL'S BORDERS!
Its not our borders, Its not our fight and Israel don't need our help!!!!!
    Ray

Offline ShadowMover

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Re: Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2006, 03:55:49 AM »
RS, I agree with what you say. My point, and yours, is we don't need any of our soldiers in harm's way, especially on Israel's borders. I was just pointing out that is where they have sent them in the past, and with a little more time they want to send them again. It's amazing how short the public's memory is, and I was trying to get to recollection of what has happened before.  They are already talking about sending an "International" force to guard the border. Guess who that will be?  BTW the Germans have already said they won't be available for the job.

Offline RaySendero

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Re: Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2006, 04:52:28 AM »
RS, I agree with what you say. My point, and yours, is we don't need any of our soldiers in harm's way, especially on Israel's borders. I was just pointing out that is where they have sent them in the past, and with a little more time they want to send them again. It's amazing how short the public's memory is, and I was trying to get to recollection of what has happened before.  They are already talking about sending an "International" force to guard the border. Guess who that will be?  BTW the Germans have already said they won't be available for the job.

SM, Yea, I've read where UN wants UN controlled troops to guard Israel's border - Seems just yesterday where I read that Italy offered troops.  I beleive anybody other than Israel guarding Israel's border will be a mistake.  We can't control others actions here as well as we can control ours!  Let then make that mistake - Not us!
    Ray

Offline myronman3

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Re: Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2006, 03:23:25 PM »
nope. 

y'all sit back and watch and take notes on how isreal is getting it done.  you kill them.  it is that simple.  i say,  give isreal all the bullets and bombs and let them kick some tail.   america and americans would do well to sit back and learn something.   

  the fact  that isreal would back it's soldiers to that extent speaks volumes to me.   american's are overall a fat, lazy,  sorry lot that love to say "i support the troops"  but damn few actually get off their duffs and support them.  instead we send our soldiers into harms way and then second guess their every move.   this is exactly why i left the service- i will be damned if i die for a country that didnt give a lick about me.    the brave patriots that lived and died in defense of this country are rolling in their graves.   

 just wait,  the future soldiers will see the crap that current soldiers get put through and in five years,  good luck finding anyone willing to step forward.  i know i wont be.   i am getting to dislike the average american as much as i dislike america's enemies. how sad is that? :(

Offline magooch

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Re: Israel, Lebanon, and Bush....a view from
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2006, 05:14:07 AM »
nope. 

y'all sit back and watch and take notes on how isreal is getting it done.  you kill them.  it is that simple.  i say,  give isreal all the bullets and bombs and let them kick some tail.   america and americans would do well to sit back and learn something.   

  the fact  that isreal would back it's soldiers to that extent speaks volumes to me.   american's are overall a fat, lazy,  sorry lot that love to say "i support the troops"  but damn few actually get off their duffs and support them.  instead we send our soldiers into harms way and then second guess their every move.   this is exactly why i left the service- i will be damned if i die for a country that didnt give a lick about me.    the brave patriots that lived and died in defense of this country are rolling in their graves.   

 just wait,  the future soldiers will see the crap that current soldiers get put through and in five years,  good luck finding anyone willing to step forward.  i know i wont be.   i am getting to dislike the average american as much as i dislike america's enemies. how sad is that? :(

Don't give up on America, Myronman.  I still think the majority of Americans are solid; it's just that the squishy liberals get all the publicity, because they do what they do best--run their mouths without the advantage of a brain.
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