Author Topic: Can a good Muslim be a good American?  (Read 3335 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline rockbilly

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3367
Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« on: July 27, 2006, 04:45:46 PM »


Can a good Muslim be a good American?

I sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of
Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and _expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist.
Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the  Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans.
 
Call it what you wish....it's still the truth.

If you find yourself intellectually in agreement with the above statements, perhaps you will share this with your friends. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.

Pass it on Fellow Americans. The religious war is bigger than we know  or understand.


Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2006, 06:14:11 PM »
Yes Sir, it is bigger than we know or understand. We have trouble with this concept because it is
the opposite of what we have been taught.

Jesus taught his diciples that if a house did not accept their teaching, to shake the dust off of their sandals & move on, in other words not to force feed them, but find those who want to hear. Because this country is founded on Christian principles, Christians & non-Christians alike have the right of free will guaranteed by our Constituition.  Muslims on the other hand feel if you are not a Muslim , but rather a Jew or Christian, you should be dead. Any country that is dominated by them sure know what Muslims believe & it is time that we learn. 
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline NYH1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1695
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2006, 09:25:43 AM »
We have a Muslim family that lives a few houses down the street from us. They're Albanians. They came to this country after the 1999 conflict with Yugoslavia. The father works 12 hours a day at a local furniture manufacturing factory and the mother works 10 hours a day assembling small electric motors. The three kids are wonderful. The whole family is extremely appreciative to be in America. They're VERY HARD WORKING and VERY RESPECTFUL PEOPLE!
"ROLL TIDE". . .Back To Back. . .Three In The Last Four Years "GO GIANTS"  "YANKEES"

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2006, 01:33:15 AM »
NYH
That has nothing to do with the bottom line, If true allegiance is required-will they do so.
there were a number of good, hardworking Germans and Italian in America, and citizens, some born here, which answered the call to their fatherlands in WWII.
The allegiance is the answer.
I have an allegiance which is a higher allegiance than our government.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Shorty

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1098
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2006, 11:16:56 AM »
Catholic politicians have been denounced as being too loyal to the Pope (JFK).  Jewish politicians have been denounced as being loyal to Israel's interests.  But, then, Catholics and Jews haven't advocated the destruction of the USA. :(

Offline hardertr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2006, 08:15:06 PM »
They're VERY HARD WORKING and VERY RESPECTFUL PEOPLE!

WELL THERE YOU HAVE IT.... your Muslim neighbors down the street are not very "American" at all.  If you don't understand where I'm coming form, just watch any of the national news programs one evening.   ;)
The problem with troubleshooting is....sometimes it shoots back!

Offline NYH1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1695
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2006, 05:51:29 AM »
They're VERY HARD WORKING and VERY RESPECTFUL PEOPLE!

WELL THERE YOU HAVE IT.... your Muslim neighbors down the street are not very "American" at all.  If you don't understand where I'm coming form, just watch any of the national news programs one evening.   ;)
So you know all about my Muslim neighbors down the street by watching the national news, wow that sure is interesting! How about the 20 to 30 Muslim's that I work with. That were born in this country and with the exception of going to Canada a few time in their lives they've never been outside the US. You know all about them too I guess right? How about the Muslim soldier that is in my friends unit (101st AB) in Iraq, you know all about him too right?
"ROLL TIDE". . .Back To Back. . .Three In The Last Four Years "GO GIANTS"  "YANKEES"

Offline rockbilly

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3367
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2006, 07:07:25 AM »
The truth of the matter is, all people are different, some may hold a stronger allegiance to their country or religion than others. 

We had a local group of Albanians that were rejoycing after 9-11.  They were clapping, shouting and dropping down on their knees and giving praise to Ali.  These folks own a pizza shop, afterwards their business fell off to the point they almost closed the shop.  If it were not for the three local univesities, and their students, I am sure it would have happened. 

The Muslin's way of thinking has been influenced by thousands of years of hate and war.  It continues today, even in Saudi, (our friend ?) where they continue to teach five-six year olds to hate Jews, Americans, or anyone that is not muslin.  They even encourage the kids to kill.   The seed once planted must sprout, so I see no end to the problen until one or the other group is totally eliminated.

Offline doc_kreipke

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 151
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2006, 07:51:18 AM »
Uhhh .... NYH, I think that comment from hardertr was a subtle facetious slam on the nanny-welfare state mentality found in a lot of Americans, not you & your muslim acquaintances.

A hard-working muslim engineer & his family live a few houses down from me, and I have quite a few muslim colleagues at work. I fear them no more than you do your neighbors & co-workers.

-K
-K

Offline Haywire Haywood

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1230
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2006, 08:35:51 AM »
The Muslin's way of thinking has been influenced by thousands of years of hate and war.

My wife calls it cultural insanity.
Kids that Hunt, Fish and Trap
Dont Steal, Deal, and Murder


usually...

Offline hardertr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2006, 09:23:06 AM »
They're VERY HARD WORKING and VERY RESPECTFUL PEOPLE!

WELL THERE YOU HAVE IT.... your Muslim neighbors down the street are not very "American" at all.  If you don't understand where I'm coming form, just watch any of the national news programs one evening.   ;)
So you know all about my Muslim neighbors down the street by watching the national news, wow that sure is interesting! How about the 20 to 30 Muslim's that I work with. That were born in this country and with the exception of going to Canada a few time in their lives they've never been outside the US. You know all about them too I guess right? How about the Muslim soldier that is in my friends unit (101st AB) in Iraq, you know all about him too right?

NO, NO, quite the opposite.  I'm saying it's getting harder to find "Americans" that are as hard working and respectful (and appreciative for what they have) as many of the non-native born citizens.  I tip my hat to those that wish to be a productive member or society.  I feel a bit of shame everytime I see ignorant, lazy "Americans" protesting the rights of legal immigrants.
The problem with troubleshooting is....sometimes it shoots back!

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2006, 09:33:01 AM »
The Muslin's way of thinking has been influenced by thousands of years of hate and war.

My wife calls it cultural insanity.

I believe your wife nailed it.

I am hopeful that some of the American Muslims are like New York Hunters neighbors, but I believe as Ronald
Reagan used to say, "trust but verify" in these situations. 
We all know that many Americans if asked would say they are Christian even though they don't practice Christianity & maybe go to Church only on Christmas & Easter. So it may be with some "Muslims" who are not devout. I am not saying that NYH's neighbors are not devout, I don't know them & maybe they are good folks, but it goe's back to the characteristics of Muslims that Rockbilly's friend stated, devout Muslims I would take that to mean. If only some of these are true, we have a problem. Can anyone prove to us that these
things are not true? If so, please tell us, if not we had better be mindful of it.

And also, as Rockbilly said it can come down to alliegiance. We know what happened in the Cival War & these
people were all Americans with the same background but when it came down to the wire, they made a
decision based on their allegiance didn't they.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2006, 11:48:12 AM »
Several of the Godless ones who flew the planes on 9-11-01 had been somebodys good neighbors for over 3 years and more, right here in our own back yards. Their neighbors were totally shocked when they found out what their good neighbors had done. Theres more here just like them, waiting for the word. Trust em if you want, but they all study from the same wicked book. If they are true muslims, believing mohameds doctrine, then they are not to be trusted. I'd never trust my life or that of my family to any of them. My neice started fooling around with some muslims, converted to the devils way. She turned her back on her family, her church, and Jesus. I told her that she was worse than just a muslim. She was raised in the church as a Christian, accepted Jesus as a teen, now she has renounced him. I'd hate to be in her shoes on judgement day. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline NYH1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1695
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2006, 06:12:56 PM »
They're VERY HARD WORKING and VERY RESPECTFUL PEOPLE!

WELL THERE YOU HAVE IT.... your Muslim neighbors down the street are not very "American" at all.  If you don't understand where I'm coming form, just watch any of the national news programs one evening.   ;)
So you know all about my Muslim neighbors down the street by watching the national news, wow that sure is interesting! How about the 20 to 30 Muslim's that I work with. That were born in this country and with the exception of going to Canada a few time in their lives they've never been outside the US. You know all about them too I guess right? How about the Muslim soldier that is in my friends unit (101st AB) in Iraq, you know all about him too right?

NO, NO, quite the opposite.  I'm saying it's getting harder to find "Americans" that are as hard working and respectful (and appreciative for what they have) as many of the non-native born citizens.  I tip my hat to those that wish to be a productive member or society.  I feel a bit of shame everytime I see ignorant, lazy "Americans" protesting the rights of legal immigrants.
hardertr,  sorry! I misunderstood you!  :)
"ROLL TIDE". . .Back To Back. . .Three In The Last Four Years "GO GIANTS"  "YANKEES"

Offline Questor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7075
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2006, 06:27:18 AM »
There are lots of decent Muslims in the U.S. Their real problem is that their religion has been hijacked by extremists who now define the religion. It's tragic and I don't know what the mainstream Muslims are going to do, or can do, about it. This whole "can a Muslim be a good American" question is symptomatic of the welling distrust of Muslims in the U.S.
Safety first

Offline hardertr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2006, 08:14:10 AM »
I think the question (actully just a regurgetation of an ignorant chain-mail attempt at insighting prejudice) is rediculous and a show of complete lack of initiative in educating oneself on other's cultures.

 ???

I know..I just typed a lot of big words to say...."WHAT A REDICULOUS QUESTION!"...but MAYBE my teachers were right..."there is no such thing as a stupid question."  Sure doesn't seem like it sometime.
The problem with troubleshooting is....sometimes it shoots back!

Offline WmRoy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 573
  • Gender: Male
    • Gun Collectors Forum
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2006, 11:27:22 AM »
There are lots of decent Muslims in the U.S. Their real problem is that their religion has been hijacked by extremists who now define the religion. It's tragic and I don't know what the mainstream Muslims are going to do, or can do, about it. This whole "can a Muslim be a good American" question is symptomatic of the welling distrust of Muslims in the U.S.

Actually, the so called 'good muslims' are the hi-jackers of the faith.  The Terrorists are the true followers of Mohammed's teachings.  If you don't believe me read the Koran and Islamic Law along with a little history on the crazy founder of the crazy faith.

And as mentioned before several of the 9-11 hi-jackers had American Friends and Girlfriends..... in the end that didn't stop them from hating!!  It was all a cover and a way to get what they wanted...........

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2006, 04:12:50 PM »
There are lots of decent Muslims in the U.S. Their real problem is that their religion has been hijacked by extremists who now define the religion. It's tragic and I don't know what the mainstream Muslims are going to do, or can do, about it. This whole "can a Muslim be a good American" question is symptomatic of the welling distrust of Muslims in the U.S.

Actually, the so called 'good muslims' are the hi-jackers of the faith.  The Terrorists are the true followers of Mohammed's teachings.  If you don't believe me read the Koran and Islamic Law along with a little history on the crazy founder of the crazy faith.

And as mentioned before several of the 9-11 hi-jackers had American Friends and Girlfriends..... in the end that didn't stop them from hating!!  It was all a cover and a way to get what they wanted...........

Agreed Sir. POWDERMAN.  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31314
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2006, 04:41:52 PM »
   I had a Beagle dog one time..he was a great hunter. He would stay in the rabbit woods all day, working very hard..and didn't want to go home when it was time to leave.
     
  A dull witted man in the neighborhood asked; " will the Beagle someday be good at pointing phesants and maybe become a German Shorthaired pointer some day ? "

    I replied; " sorry Charlie he's been trained from birth on rabbits...he has no interest in pointing and wouldn't like it if he were forced to do it..

 ...And become a Shorthaired Pointer...not possible..not in his genes..he is the result of many generations of breeding and training to be an excellent rabbit dog...and a Beagle !

......Selah
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2006, 03:18:21 AM »
We see things only one way. They would think us to be wrong, afraid, and misguided.
If we all we raised in their culture we would be the same.
Now, I am not advocating political correctness to the point of letting our guard down--the old saying applies-just because I am paranoid does not mean someone is out to get me.
I DO NOT KNOW the leaning of any individual or his/her allegiance. I will let those facts come out-Christ said not to pluck the wheat out with the weeds-but I will be aware that there are weeds in every garden.
Things are changing folks and I believe it is time we harvested our tolerance and trusting. It is time to build strong fences and make sure the barn is secured.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6644
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2006, 04:44:44 AM »
I think the question (actully just a regurgetation of an ignorant chain-mail attempt at insighting prejudice) is rediculous and a show of complete lack of initiative in educating oneself on other's cultures.

 ???

I know..I just typed a lot of big words to say...."WHAT A REDICULOUS QUESTION!"...but MAYBE my teachers were right..."there is no such thing as a stupid question."  Sure doesn't seem like it sometime.

Yeah, it might even be a "Ridiculous" question--but I don't think so.
Swingem

Offline hardertr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2006, 06:23:58 AM »
Just spoke with some of my co-workers that are paid to keep the Middle East in their crosshairs.  They informed me of a few things I did not know.
1) Islam preaches that all of humanity should convert or suffer the consequences (doesn't specifically state by force or terrorism).
2) Islam continues to be the most rapidly growing religion in the world.
3) American Islam has shifted towards tolerance, yet persistently recruits toward changing people's faith.

And probably the most important:
4) American Muslims are shunned by their Middle Eastern counterparts as "imposters" because of their lack of conformity to current political radicalism in the name of Jihad.

Looks like we have a division of faith and intention within Islam.

So I guess the answer to the question is: Depends on which version of a "good Muslim" you are referring to. 

Radical, hard-line Muslims that interpret the Koran to their needs....(not unlike some Christians do with the Bible)... Not if American develops an "Anti-Muslim" sentiment. 

Contemporary Muslims looking to spread thier interpretation of the word of Allah (as bastardized by Mohamed) in an effort to convert through peaceful means, or let "God" render judgment (not unlike Christians compelled to witness)....YES.
The problem with troubleshooting is....sometimes it shoots back!

Offline WmRoy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 573
  • Gender: Male
    • Gun Collectors Forum
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2006, 11:17:09 AM »
TM7,

After reading all your posts I think you'll like the way this guy thinks.................... God Help You!

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51335

Offline nabob

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 633
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2006, 11:35:43 AM »
If your point is that relying strictly on the holy texts of a given religion, one might come to a misunderstanding about the nature of that religion, I'd agree. Surely the sacred text of Christianity condoned, at one time, much violence. It isn't even good enough to point out the difference between the Old Testament and New and claim that Jesus brought a whole new understanding. While that is true in theological terms, there was still plenty of violence in the name of a particular religious viewpoint.

However, I don't think it is reasonable to stretch the point too far. For the most part, the Enlightenment, with its emphasis on the individual rights of man and the division of the temporal world into religious and secular spheres, created a situation where for the most part, we've gotten past our own proclivities to violence. True, there are exceptions, but the days of Christians fighting Christians over a given religious interpretation are for the most part over. We also don't generally fight other religions in order to forcibly convert its followers. So while it is important to point out that Christianity's hands are not clean in respect to violence, I don't think it is fair to imply that this case is now somehow the general situation today. In my experience, I don't see radical Christians committing terror against Muslims for the sake of religion.

In that same vein, it is reasonable to point out that Muslims have not achieved that state of pacific accommodation within Islam, let alone with the outside world. These days, fundamental Christianity does not require the death of others. I don't think the same can be said about Islam. Historically, whenever Islam or Christianity has felt its existence threatened, they have retreated into extreme conservatism. The difference is that for Christianity today, extreme conservatism is nonviolent. We've made the journey to God an interior one. Islam, when it retrenches, still turns just as violent as it did 1000 years ago.

No one can ignore our own religious history. However, we must also not ignore the fact that Christianity, for the most part, has left many of these notions you cite behind and evolved into a bifurcated system where religious doctrine does not directly guide secular policy. I see Islam as attempting the exact opposite - their desired state of existence is one where there is no difference between the law of God and the law of man. That is a crucial difference in my opinion between the two religions. Such a fundamental difference in outlook cannot be overstated. For me, it drives much of the misperceptions our two religions have of each other.

Offline WmRoy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 573
  • Gender: Male
    • Gun Collectors Forum
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2006, 08:37:54 AM »
WmRoy,,,,actually I would not mind talking to Dr. Almadanejidad

...............TM7

I'm sure you WOULD love to talk to him............... but unfortunately for you he'd only talk to you as an opportunity for propaganda or to keep you busy until his men came up behind you to slit your throat........... 

Why don't you drop him a line and see if you can get an audience......... perhaps you'll get along since you both seem to hate Jews...........

So let me see.......... everyone who DOESN'T blindly hate the Jews are Christian Zionists? That's a pretty hateful place to stand and certainly not a Christian stance..... 

I'm done with this, I have no use for people who are so jealous of the Jews that they are blinded by hate...... the Jews are God's chosen People, you my friend are a 'wild vine' grafted into the 'true vine' and if Jesus will prune from the 'true vine' (Jews) how more readily (much more readily!!) will he prune the 'wild vine' (gentiles) that have been grafted in.........  you best reflect on your thinkings lest you find yourself on the cutting room floor!!

Offline WmRoy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 573
  • Gender: Male
    • Gun Collectors Forum
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2006, 01:12:18 PM »
Wm Roy...yeah, I would like to talk to him seeing as how most of our administration is as intolerant as you and can't.
.
Pretty good that I hate jews seeing as how I've been married to one for 27 years--you think...?
.
I think you better find out what the difference between judaism and zionism is real fast and try to relate it to who is running this country, and then maybe see your pastor and talk about how everyone that doesn't support the politic war machine of Israel might not hate jews. Than have a nice discussion about everyone Christian, Jew, or otherwise that wants to blast various arabs  to extinction might  just HATE arabs in turn.
.
Then think about how a majority of Israelis question their government's recent actions and want the apartheid Palestinian question solved so they can live in peace someday.  Your biblical reference and threat sounds pretty fundamentally terroristic to me, but I always said you got to be a good Jew before you can be a good Christian ... P.S. get ready for a rude awakening and Good luck getting a contractor job in the sandbox.

................TM7


 


I've seen that article and I don't see how it relates to me........ I don't believe the 'End is Near'........... in fact I'm not convinced 100% that the book of Revalation should even be part of the Canon.  The book of Revelation was in and out several times during the Canon process, and personally I think it's very unlikely that the Apostle John wrote the book......... but that's for another thread.  But of course your friend the President of Iran is on record saying that he wants to bring about the end of the world to usher in the return of the 12th Inman............. sure sounds like a man you could reason with to me!!  And certainly tolerant..... after all, he just wants to wipe Israel off the Map........... what a guy let's do lunch.......

I'm certain there are a few Jewish folks who wish to see the end of Israel (because whether or not you believe the end of the world is at hand, the exsistance of Israel is certainly at risk!).  I don't profess to understand them there are alot of foolish folks out there!  Certainly there are some (not the majority though sorry not buying that one) folks in Israel that are like the liberals here "can't we all just get along"  that doesn't mean much........... it's alot less scary to stick your head in the sand and tell yourself "It's alright, everyone Loves me".

I am not intolerant, just a realist.  And yes, whether you are married to a Jewish woman or not you must hate the Jewish race in general.  I can't see how anyone (other than the folks mentioned above with their heads in the sand) can say they want to stand by and watch the people of Israel slowly killed off through suicide bombings and now rocket attacks, and then tell me they don't hate the Jewish race........ don't add up for me........ you either hate Jews or you're in denial of the reality of the situation.

Not sure where you think I threatened you?  If you felt threaten then I apologize for that........ wasn't my intent.  And of course you don't have to be a good Jew to be a good Christian, that was settled in the very first Church Council nearly 2,000 years ago!!  And as far as being a 'fundamentalist', I'm actually a fairly liberal Christian so you're WAY OFF the MARK there!!!

And I am NOT in favor of 'Nuking' the Arabs!!  In fact you won't find a single thread where I've even advocated violence against the Islamic Religion!  I have no quarrel with Arabs (there are some Arab Christians after all) I don't even have a quarrel with Muslims!!!!!!! (I think you're confusing Muslims and Arabs.  Not all Arabs are Muslim and not all Muslims are Arab!)  I do however have no use for the Islamic Religion (it's of Satan), but do I support 'Nuking' them?  No, but I do support the war on the Terrorist element within the Islamic religion (which is substantial!) and believe we should stop doing commerce with any muslim nation that prohibits Missionaries from outside Islam.

As I said before TM I'm done with you, we'll just have to leave at that and the fact that neither one has much use for the other............ God Bless and God Help You!

Oh, and I'll ask my cousin about the contractors over there.  He's done 3 tours in Iraq and 2 in Bosnia..... remember that one it was the one where Clinton had us killing the Christians to save the Muslims...... and we're still THERE!!!  I'm not too sure that any contractors need Professional Artists over there though, I'm thinking the private contractors are more Engineers, Mechanics and the like................

Oh here's a great article
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51346

And as far as to the original topic of this thread......... NO, they cannot be good Americans.

Offline rifleman61

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 109
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2006, 02:29:03 PM »
IF you can't avoid the personal attacks you will find yourself not being allowed to continue to post on this site. Follow my rules or move on. Graybeard




Hard boiled reality:
I am a Catholic
My ancestors were Catholics from Ireland and France; they came to America and were rightfully distrusted by Protestants.  Both had a very terrible background from the "30 Years War", The Protestant Revolution, and the English Civil War and at best did not tust each other; at worst they hated each other.  As no majority will purposely legislate itself into an inferior position the Protestant majority laid down the rules; even though the rules were harsh they were fair to all in the end.  When young Irish Catholic boys stood in "the Wheatfield" at Gettysburg and killed each other in the Sunken Road at Antietam Catholics once and for all proved where their blood was, in American soil. They proved it again in places with names like Guadalcanal, IwoJima, Monte Casino, A Shau Valley and littered the world with their dead, in places with names that have since been forgotten.  Now Catholics are every bit as much  American as the Protestants are and if you scratch the surface, you will see that except for the particulars thery are Protestant in outlook, culture and committment to a from the bottom up  mutually covenanted Republican democracy.  Now it comes to us that the Muslim has come among us, a stranger in a strange land, unbidden and surely unasked for.  While we have sewn with our blood, and the land has taken it in all alike, Catholic Protestant and Jew the Muslim comes now and expects to reap.    Now there are "Good" and "Bad"  Muslims; unfortunately like good Communists and good Nazis "good" Muslims are bad people.  The question remains for the Muslim, will there be any Suribachis, will there be any Pelelius?  When young irish Catholic boys were killing each other at Chancellorsville, Chickamauga, and Shiloh, when President Lincoln once and for all time banished  general slavery from our country, the Muslim was buying and selling slaves in all colors and sexes from the Horn of Africa to Constantinople and his seed does so to this day.  The Muslim will answer for and to all of these things; he will decide whether or not he is going to be a "bad Muslim".  He will do this unequivocably and clearly without reservation or we shall answer them for him and he will not like the answer; that is the nature of American democracy. And, I for one will not see the sacrifices of those first brave Protestant noncomformists be made in vain.

Semper Fi/Anchor'sAway
CPO Bull

Offline RaySendero

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1064
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2006, 04:30:16 PM »
....., but I always said you got to be a good Jew before you can be a good Christian .....
................TM7

 ??? TM, Are you serious or just being sarcastic?
    Ray

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2006, 04:40:49 PM »
TM7. I admit I haven't read everything you've posted, some of it very long reads. I get the impression that you blame Israel for a lot that is going wrong in this world. We are in a war, like it or not. Israel is in the same war as we are, islam against the world. The Godless ones are blowing people up, cutting off heads, etc, in almost every nation in the world. They are a fast growing cancer, who only live to kill. Satan tried to kill Jesus but failed. 600 years later he found mohamed, and islam was born. The purpose of islam was, and is, to destroy Christianity and everything that Jesus Christ taught, stands for, and built. Satan was mohameds mentor, not God. Their cult advocates the anhilation of every man, woman, and child, that does not agree with their form of madness. They live, to kill. Israel gets blamed for civilian deaths, even though they are caused by the Godless ones. The town that got hit with supposedly all the dead children?? Several witnesses said that the Godless ones fired their rockets from the street, and at one point set the launchers up on rooftops of the buildings that got hit. The Godless ones hide behind non combatants hoping for innocent deaths, then they can cry about that evil old Israel. The Godless ones were firing their rockets from the NATO compound, they drew fire, innocents were killed, they were tickled to death because they had achieved their goal. They fired over 100 missles into Israel yesterday, over 800 more the 5 previous days. Little on the news about that. The Godless ones fire at CIVILIAN targets, not military ones. If they would hit a daycare center, a school, or a hospitol, they'd be dancing in the street. Israel has gone to great measures to avoid civilian deaths. Broadcasts on tv, radio, even dropped thousands of leaflets telling folks to leave because they were coming. They refuse, they support hezbollah, shame on em, no loss there. Israel is doing the world a favor, I pray daily for them, and us. Islam is the enemy, not Israel. The Godless ones will settle for nothing less than the total domination of the world. I pray that the world will wake up and see islam for the terrible cancer it is, before it's too late.Osama said the other day that the world was his battlefield.  If I have misread you, I appologize. POWDERMAN.  :( :( :( :( :( :(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31314
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2006, 04:49:20 PM »
....I see much of a current fad going on here..that has been propagated by Liberals .
  This silly notion is called " Moral Equivalency"..
   Some folks think we must be "evenhanded" between the Israelis and and the Muslim terrorist organizations..rather akin to seeing a gator about to attack a small child...then refuse to interfere...that would not be "evenhanded" 
 
     I have been taken to task because I distrust the Muslim fanatics much more than the Israelis...
   
   I don't distrust the Muslims more than the Jews for any ethnic reason...I distrust them because I use my head to reason..
  ..It's called """"inductive reasoning "...
 
If the Israelis were to stupid-cide bomb daycare centers, pizza parlors, weddings and airplanes...

    .If the Israelis were to murder in the same way. 273 of OUR Sailors and Marines..

   If the Israelies were to brutalize helpless American captives..then saw off their heads with a dull knife..

  If the Israelis were to car bomb a theatre, then..after help arrives from all directions..set another bomb off, killing the rescuers and the already wounded kin of the dead victims...

   If the Israelis were to stupid-cide bomb our destroyer.. The USS Cole

    If the Isrelis were to stupid-cide bomb our World Trade Center..and kill 3000 Americans...with lingering deaths awaiting some of the survivors..

   If the Israelis were to stupid-cide bomb our Pentagon..

  If the Israelis were caught, planning to shoot up the Canadian Parliment..

   If the Israelis were caught , planning to saw off the Prime Minister's head on national Tv...

     ..and if the Israelis were to commit just a few of those dastardly crimes, I would probably dislike them even MORE than those Muslims, who fight from BEHIND women & children..

   Why would I dislike them even more...because Israel is a " civilized " country, thus ..less excuse !


   So, does anyone with half a brain see a " Moral Equivalency" between these two ?
   
     BTW: As I see it, Judaism is a faith/religion...Zionism, is a fairy tale espoused by the Nazis....and now promoted by the " Conspiracy Theory " crowd...
   
    ...Don't know how that over worked, much disproven propaganda gets through their aluminum foil hats..but it apparently does...

If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)