What do you all think about the magnum trend?

[handirifle]

The thing is that most Americans that own magnums never have or will hunt anything bigger than deer.

I don't think your correct in this assumption...While many folks certainly use their magnums just for deer...I would bet a fair amount of them regularly use them on larger game too...

Mac

I say even if they don't who cares?  It's not my shoulder.

[longwinters]

Well, like I said previously I don't care what anyone shoots.  I like pretty much all calibers.  And every rifle sold in America is a good thing from my point of view.  But I will stand on the opinion that at least 80% of all hunters (especially since probably 80% of all hunters are east of the Mississippi) do not hunt anything but deer or maybe small game.

Long

[S.S.]

"Nobody in the lower 48 needs to go hunting to survive anymore, so that is a choice also."

I have to disagree with this, I know folks in Georgia who would possibly not get to eat
any meat in the winter if it were not for hunting season. May not be survival as such like being lost
in the wilderness but for someone trying to support a family on low wages, a dolllar for a bullet to fill the freezer is money well spent. I shared a deer with one such family this past year and if God graces me with another deer or two this year It will be shared also !
We are all talking magnum cartridges and fancy rifles and such but you know what the family I am refering to uses? He has an old (and I mean old) 20 ga. single shot Shotgun.
I think I will get him a nice Turkish Mauser in 8mm and a few boxes of shells this deer season.
It will have to be a "LOAN" though or he won't take it ! Not wealthy but proud.

[Don Fischer]

Couple of things about the O'Conner's. I don't know who Elaine is, but Elennor O'Conner killed an elephant with a 30-06, only one she ever shot. And I doubt that Jack ever recommended the 270 or 7x57 as grizzly cartridges. I think he said they would kill a grizzly. And maybe Jack was rich, I don't know, but I suspect he waited for ideal shot's to make the best shot he could, not because he had time on his hands. I have had several letters from Jack and while he was outspoken, maybe to a fault, he was not someone that had to kill something to have a successful trip. Perhaps those of you that feel the need to take home game from distent hunting trips should concider weather you really can afford it or not! If you drive 3000mi round trip and take home even three deer, whats the value of that meat? With the cost of that trip you could have probally bought two cows,,,,,,cut and wrapped! Maaybe you should stop a minute and smell the daisy's!

By the way, although I wrote Jack several times and got personnel replys from him, I was a Warren Paige fan. One last thing, I recently read that Jacks use of the 270 on grizzly was the result of running into them on a sheep hunt with his favorite sheep rifle, a 270. If I remember right it was stocked  by Al Bissen of Spokane. It used to be on display in Oroville, Cal in "Huntington's".

As for the magnum trend, there's nothing new about it. I went thru it in the 60's and 70's.

[Mr. Joe]

A direct quote from Jack O'Connor: "My recomendation of the little 7x57 for grizzly bear may surprise some people"

I know it suprised me.  I always figured the minimum to be the .30-06 and the great .308 with at least 180 gr.

[nomosendero]

Couple of things about the O'Conner's. I don't know who Elaine is, but Elennor O'Conner killed an elephant with a 30-06, only one she ever shot. And I doubt that Jack ever recommended the 270 or 7x57 as grizzly cartridges. I think he said they would kill a grizzly. And maybe Jack was rich, I don't know, but I suspect he waited for ideal shot's to make the best shot he could, not because he had time on his hands. I have had several letters from Jack and while he was outspoken, maybe to a fault, he was not someone that had to kill something to have a successful trip. Perhaps those of you that feel the need to take home game from distent hunting trips should concider weather you really can afford it or not! If you drive 3000mi round trip and take home even three deer, whats the value of that meat? With the cost of that trip you could have probally bought two cows,,,,,,cut and wrapped! Maaybe you should stop a minute and smell the daisy's!

By the way, although I wrote Jack several times and got personnel replys from him, I was a Warren Paige fan. One last thing, I recently read that Jacks use of the 270 on grizzly was the result of running into them on a sheep hunt with his favorite sheep rifle, a 270. If I remember right it was stocked  by Al Bissen of Spokane. It used to be on display in Oroville, Cal in "Huntington's".

As for the magnum trend, there's nothing new about it. I went thru it in the 60's and 70's.

A little out of context but I am used to that. 
No, I don't feel like I must score every time I go on a trip & have enjoyed the experience a great deal in some trips where I did not harvest the Game I desired. But to act like you did not want to would be a lie or I would carry a camera instead of a gun, & there would be nothing wrong with that. And concerning the economics of it, a 7th grader could in 5 minutes show anyone with plan ole arith. how you could buy your meat cheaper.
Non hunters have asked me about that for years before I go on a trip(the only people that I have seen bring it up), hey couldn't you buy your meat cheaper, well duh!!!!
No, what I was talking about was maximizing opportunities, it is silly not to on one of these trips when you have the equipment, the ability & the opportunity to do so.

Concernig Mr. O'Conner, I am not concerned about his net worth, anyone who has read his material knows
he spent a great deal of time on some of his hunts, so once again my point was if you are not able to do
that then you may have to again take advantage of the DOABLE opportunities that you have. If someone
knows how to go on a month long hunting trip without considerable money, please PM me & let me know your secret, don't post it because then it may not work.    And also people with normal jobs usually have to go back to work in a week or two. I thought this would be obvious but I guess not.

[jro45]

As far as the Magnum trend goes I agree with what was said that there will always be one.
Unless one day they have made all that is to be made.
Just think they brought back the 8mm in the 325 witch is 8mm. How long will it last [ the 8mm ]. I guess we'll see.

[Mr. Joe]

I dont think the .325 will last too long unfortunitly.  Only because americans never seem to embrace an 8mm.   

[Todd1700]

Sounds good, doesn't it? And oh, only if it was the case we could cancel out the need for magnums.

All I'm saying is that the desire for a magnum rifle is far far greater than the actual "need" to have one for the vast majority of people where I hunt. A magnum rifle is needed for one of two things. To hurl a light to moderate weight bullet at a very flat trajectory for very long range shooting or to hurl a very heavy bullet at a speed sufficient to penetrate and kill very large and or dangerous animals. The largest game animal here in Alabama is the whitetail deer which rarely exceeds 200 lbs down here (so the really heavy bullet need for a magnum is out) and the average shot distance on deer in Alabama is less than 100 yards. (so the flat trajectory out past 350 yards need for a magnum is out as well) But hey it's their deer and if they want to consistently throw half of them away due to bloodshoot meat that's their business.

But I tell you what's funny; Standing in a sporting goods store listening to some victim of magnumitis with his bruised shoulder and half moon scope cut over his eye ponder in amazement over the fact that the deer he's shooting with his new 300 ultra mag are still running just as far before they die as they did will his old 30-06. Maybe in a decade or two they will all learn that you can't kill anything deader by using a bigger gun. All you can do is mutilate the corpse a little worse.

[nomosendero]

Oh, so that is what bigger guns do, I am glad we got that cleared up. Oh about that guy, well I guess a wimp can buy a big gun too! I hate to think about the Crimsom Tide that way, though. 

[Redhawk1]

Sounds good, doesn't it? And oh, only if it was the case we could cancel out the need for magnums.

All I'm saying is that the desire for a magnum rifle is far far greater than the actual "need" to have one for the vast majority of people where I hunt. A magnum rifle is needed for one of two things. To hurl a light to moderate weight bullet at a very flat trajectory for very long range shooting or to hurl a very heavy bullet at a speed sufficient to penetrate and kill very large and or dangerous animals. The largest game animal here in Alabama is the whitetail deer which rarely exceeds 200 lbs down here (so the really heavy bullet need for a magnum is out) and the average shot distance on deer in Alabama is less than 100 yards. (so the flat trajectory out past 350 yards need for a magnum is out as well) But hey it's their deer and if they want to consistently throw half of them away due to bloodshoot meat that's their business.

But I tell you what's funny; Standing in a sporting goods store listening to some victim of magnumitis with his bruised shoulder and half moon scope cut over his eye ponder in amazement over the fact that the deer he's shooting with his new 300 ultra mag are still running just as far before they die as they did will his old 30-06. Maybe in a decade or two they will all learn that you can't kill anything deader by using a bigger gun. All you can do is mutilate the corpse a little worse.

You equate that there is no need for magnum cartridges because there is only deer in Alabama?  Well not all of use just hunt deer, I go to other States and hunt, but not just for deer.

[bruised shoulder and half moon scope cut over his eye]
I have been shooting magnum cartridges from 300 Win mags to 458 Win Mags and never suffered a bruised shoulder or half moon scope cut over my eye. But I have seen guys shooting standard cartridges with cut's over there eye, but that came from improper shooting skill.

What does it really matter what a guy decides to shoot? If you don't see a need for a magnum, don't get one. If I or anyone else wants to use one, why should you care??

But in my opinion, there is a place for magnum cartridges, sorry if it is not Alabama. 

[Cement Man]

I have rifles chambered in over a dozen CF cartridges and not one is termed a magnum. Why?  My shooting abilities and hunting requirementss are more than adequately served by our fine "standard" cartridges.  I don't ever see me taking a 400 yard shot at any game animal.  I don't think I am up to it in most field conditions.  I am kind of a fan of the standards - I especially like the .223, 30-30, .308, 6.5X55, 30.06, and the .45/70 a lot. Gentler, quieter, less muzzle blast, longer barrel life.  The cost of ammo and powder for these rounds is easier on my budget too. There is something to be said for saving meat as well. 
Having said all that, I do recognize that the "magnums" can provide an extra margin of performance (with the correct bullets!) in the hands of those who can use them.  And really, more new choices just stimulate the economy and I am all for that.  So, as far as magnums go, I say wonderful, the more the merrier.  Just shoot responsibly and use the right bullet.

[nomosendero]

Redhawk, as you said I have seen scope cuts as the result of people shooting with improper shooting
skill. Me too & improper shooting form which is part of the improper skill. The first person I saw that way was me.    It happened in the mid 70's & I was a green kid & pretty new to shooting. Me and
big brother went to a bean field to sight in a Ruger Bull barrel Swift that I just bought to do some groundhog sniping. As I started setting things up a groundhog came out down the field a ways, well my Swift was not sighted in but my brother brought along a  VERY LIGHT WT. Ruger 30-06 in case
we needed it. Well, I grabbed that gun and crawled into position, thinking only of the Groundhog.
The 2X7 Leo. was mounted low & in prone position if you aren't careful thinking about it you will pull
your head down & your forehead will be tilted toward the scope. I touched off the 165 Gr. Sierra
reload & then I could not see for the blood. My brother saw all of the blood & he thought the gun blew up. Yes, the Leopold is quite sharp!! This light 30-06 has more kick than my 300WM Sendero as
it is heavier & with a nice pad. The only other time that I got hit was a couple years later with a Ruger #1 7mag, I did a quick left had shot on a Whitetail that was closing in to my hard right. My shooting angle was too sharp(bad form again) & the scope hit my left eye brow, though not near as hard this time.
Yea, the std. 30-06 got me good, but it was not the fault of the rifle. But, since the 70's & these 2
occassions I have not been hit, I have learned a little about taking advantage of eye relief, shooting
form, rifle wt., non slip & good recoil pads, etc. And now I am shooting guns that are MUCH more
powerful without problems.
 
So, when I see these things come up, I think back at my own mistakes & I know we are dealing with
a voice of inexperience.

[R.W.Dale]

 I also wear the infamous scar above my right eye. Mine came from a strange 30-06 a winchester with a synthetic stock. At the time there was lots of blood and cussin but I did manage to punch that coyote's ticket

 In my opinion a standard chambering will put a hurtin on most peoples faces before belted magnum will just cause of the fact that it's easier to convince yourself that that good ol 06 won't ever try to kick the snot out of you. Whereas when shooting my 300wby I'm always mindfull of what's going to happen when I pull the trigger, making certian that all of my body parts are where they should be.

[victorcharlie]

Well, I got a cut over the eye this year......sighting in my 45.70 with hot loads.......trying for that last bit of accuracy, had the gun held loose........and shooting off the bench........it can and does happen to the saltiest of dogs........

[Todd1700]

Oh about that guy, well I guess a wimp can buy a big gun too! I hate to think about the Crimsom Tide that way, though. 

By all means blast Tide fans all you like. I'm an Auburn Tiger fan.  Bama's arch rival

?  Well not all of us just hunt deer, I go to other States and hunt, but not just for deer.

Then obviously I wasn't speaking of you was I? Odd that people get upset even though they clearly claim a use for a magnum that places them in a minority that might actually need one and therefore outside the scope of people I was taking a jab at. The vast majority of people here however shoot nothing but deer with them and at very close range.

Ever see a 130 lb deer hit at 50 yards quartering away with a 150 grain ballistic tip out of a 300 WSM. I have. A guy dropped one off at the processor while I was hanging around talking to a buddy one night. The bullet entered in the back right hip crease angling toward the left front shoulder. When they jerked the hide off it the first thought that hit my mind was "Sweet Mother of God." If I had no prior knowledge of it, and you laid that skinned carcass at my feet, then asked me what killed it, my first guess would have been the grill of a Ford F-150 traveling about 60 mph. There is no doubt that 60 percent or more of it had to be thrown away. Hell, even the back hams had blood shot meat and the bullet hit in front of them angling away from them. All I can figure is that bullet fragments hit them. The tenderloins were blood shot. The guts were liquified. The entire inner surface of the animal was painted in a foul thick paste of gut goo. Never seen a gut shot make a mess like that in all my 40 years. The front shoulders which could have been ground into sausage or hamburger meat by the processor where one huge clabbered clot of blood. The animal was by no means a trophy so I can only assume the guy shot it for meat yet look at how much was wasted. For the life of me I don't understand why people think they need that much gun for a deer(especially our deer) but hey it's legal and their deer meat to waste. Wonder if they hunt dove with a 10 gauge and squirrels with a 243?

[Mac11700]

A magnum rifle is needed for one of two things. To hurl a light to moderate weight bullet at a very flat trajectory for very long range shooting or to hurl a very heavy bullet at a speed sufficient to penetrate and kill very large and or dangerous animals.

Then obviously I wasn't speaking of you was I? Odd that people get upset even though they clearly claim a use for a magnum that places them in a minority that might actually need one and therefore outside the scope of people I was taking a jab at. The vast majority of people here however shoot nothing but deer with them and at very close range.

It's obvious of 1 thing here...You seem to have it in your head that if you don't see a need for one...no-one else should either

Do I need a magnum caliber to kill a deer? Of course not...I can clearly use a sling shot and kill a deer...or use a sharpend stick and jump out of a tree and stab it to death.....Do I advocate doing these things...nope...Do I recommend using a 22 magnum when so many deer have been taken with the rimfire?...Not hardly...What I do recommend is that the person who elects to hunt..use what they can legally shoot...accurately and safely ilregardless of caliber

I know several fine outstanding people whom strickly uses magnums for all their hunting...1 of them is a 95lb. 5'3" lady..who exclusivly uses a 375 H&H magnum...granted...she doesn't hunt praire dogs with it...but she could if she wanted too...she's a crack shot with that big ole H&H...Others use an assortment of 7mm & 30 cal magnums...They do this because they need to...all of them...they wouldn't be as good as they are without them...I know...I have asked them why they use them when other cartridges work so well...all of them said they didn't for them...So...they have a need for them...to make them as proficiant as they are...

Moral of the story here...Speak of your own needs...and not the needs of others since they may differ vastly from yours...Wording this a little different will still get the point across...instead of...Are magnums needed ?...Try this..." Are magnums nessascary....?

Mac

[Coyote Hunter]

Ever see a 130 lb deer hit at 50 yards quartering away with a 150 grain ballistic tip out of a 300 WSM.

The problem I see in your anecdote is not with the cartridge but rather with the selection of bullet.

[R.W.Dale]

 I think we need to start a thread debating the big bore trend, When it's odvious that nobody needs a huge 45/70 to kill deer or anything else in North America and anything over 30 caliber is a waste of lead and meat. Why a .243 will do anything a .450 Marlin can do.

 It must be that those big bore guys thinks that a bigger chunk of lead makes up for their lack of marksmanship....or sumpin else.

Now seriously doesn't the above paragraphs sound really silly and yet all I've done is paraphrase all the above posts and subsitute big bore for magnum.
 

[beemanbeme]

Well, I haven't read all of the entries but after the first couple, it kinda turned into a "more flavor; less filling" shouting match.  If volume is a subsitution for truth, I have come away with these kernels of truth:
!.  ALL magnum shooters are irresponsible hunters that, to a man, flinch with every shot.
2. ALL shooters of lesser cartridges are winkies that are afraid to shoot a real rifle.

IMO, both positions are 99.8% organic fertilizer!  After you read some of the "facts" a few hundred times, you realize that the posters are just parroting some kinda BS that they've heard in cyberspace and don't truely HAVE THE SLIGHTEST BIT OF FIRST HAND INFORMATION.

I have hunted in several states on both sides of the big river and I've killed deer --both kinds.  And I've used everything from a .260 to a .338WM.  The only time I've seen these deer distroying rersults has been when the pilgrim was using a totally wrong bullet.  And, without exception, that has been a light-for-calibre, fragile bullet jacked up to boyhowdeylookwhaticando speeds. That can happen with just about any cartridge but, I'll admit, it is more prevelent with the magnum shooters.

But, the question was "what do you think about the magnum trend?"  Not, "tell me your opinion of magnum rifles per se".. 

As far as the opinions ABOUT magnums, I like the two statements, "every rifle sold in America is a plus", and, "what difference does it make to you, what I use?"
 

[Redhawk1]

Ever see a 130 lb deer hit at 50 yards quartering away with a 150 grain ballistic tip out of a 300 WSM.

The problem I see in your anecdote is not with the cartridge but rather with the selection of bullet.

My thought's exactly.   

[kudzu]

I'll have to side with coyote and red on the 300wsm bullet selection. Then I might have to add a ? about shot placement and possiblly the shot(angle) itself.

I think the word magnum is clearlly overrated. Some cal. have the mag. name hung on them when there are just as powerful standard cal. (7mm rem mag vs 30-06). To me the 7mm is no more of a mag. cal than the 30-06 is.

just my 2 cents , DM

[Todd1700]

It's obvious of 1 thing here...You seem to have it in your head that if you don't see a need for one...no-one else should either

Ummm, didn't I clearly state that there are reasons to have a magnum? Even listed what IMHO those reasons are. But I firmly stand by the assertion that shooing 150 lb deer at less than 100 yards is not one of them.

1 of them is a 95lb. 5'3" lady..who exclusivly uses a 375 H&H magnum...granted...she doesn't hunt praire dogs with it...

Hell, why not? According to you guys there is no such thing as a mismatched caliber to the task at hand unless it's too little.

Look, you can use a 250,000 dollar combine harvester with a 8 row header on it to harvest the 4 twenty yard long rows of corn in your backyard garden if you like. It's legal. It's your money and your garden. But I reserve the right of free speech to tell you that it's ridiculous overkill. You can mow your lawn with hedge trimmers if you like. I won't try to stop you. But again I will tell you that's not the proper tool for the task at hand.

It may not be any of my business what you use to shoot small deer at close range but that doesn't make my opinion wrong. I've had a lot people tell me it's none of my business but nobody has given a practical reason why I'm wrong.

[R.W.Dale]

It may not be any of my business what you use to shoot small deer at close range but that doesn't make my opinion wrong. I've had a lot people tell me it's none of my business but nobody has given a practical reason why I'm wrong.

In my situation  a 30-30 would be fine for sittin in my stand on the creek where shots over 30yds would be pushin it But when I don't see anythin there I might climb up to the top of the bluff where shots could go as far as I'm willing to shoot. If I were carrying that 30-30 there wouldn't be any sense in even goin up there.

 I don't have an unlimited amout of time to do my hunting so I'm going to make darn certian that I have a rifle that will get the job done in any situation I find myself in.


 The same people decrying overkill  have no hesitation to driving a truck with a 300hp engine or watching a TV with a screen over 15" which makes em hypocrites in my book
 A 7mm magnum will kill a deer at 40 yds just fine but that 30-30 won't do worth a flip at the task 400 now will it.

[TreyAzagthoth]

Ever see a 130 lb deer hit at 50 yards quartering away with a 150 grain ballistic tip out of a 300 WSM.

The problem I see in your anecdote is not with the cartridge but rather with the selection of bullet.

My thought's exactly.   

[Mac11700]

It may not be any of my business what you use to shoot small deer at close range but that doesn't make my opinion wrong. I've had a lot people tell me it's none of my business but nobody has given a practical reason why I'm wrong.

Here's a practicle reason...Dead is Dead...I don't think you can overkill an animal...Wonten destruction of edible meat is a crime...and what has already been stated..use the correct bullet for the animal hunted..and place the bullet in the kill zone......It makes no difference what you use to get the job done...as long as it is done safely,and as humanely as possible...and in doing so...if the gun (albeit a magnum) will cleanly harvest a deer from a few feet...to what ever range the hunting will take place at...is all that really matters...Again...just because you don't see the need...doesn't mean others don't have one...Hunting styles..terrain..enviromental conditions..and many other things combined will dictate what a person needs not just your opinion..not just yardage alone...Not all here are limited by time,money,or geogrophy...but many are...and each have different needs...

You are intitaled to your opinion...but...you need to realize that what you need...is most likely different than what someone else needs...and your hunting style and terrain is different than most others too..

Mac

[S.S.]

The horse is not dead yet, but he is faltering.....
are we all going to take the final step and beat him to death?

There is going to be no agreement in this thread!
Shoot what you feel comfortable with and be done with it !
Just be as humane as possible to your target.

[Coyote Hunter]

Ummm, didn't I clearly state that there are reasons to have a magnum? Even listed what IMHO those reasons are. But I firmly stand by the assertion that shooing 150 lb deer at less than 100 yards is not one of them.

While I concur whole heartedly that a magnum is not required for shooting 150 pound whitetail at 100 yards, I would also suggest that NO rifle is needed for that purpose and that a handgun would work just fine.  If you follow your argument to its logical conclusion, you inevitably arrive at the conclusion that a firearm is not "needed" at all - just go hew a spear and go hunting.

My first centerfire rifle was purchased for the specific task of hunting Colorado's elk. That rifle, a 7mm Rem Mag, has taken elk, mule deer, antelope, coyotes and prairie dogs.  Since the chances are slim to none that I will ever hunt ALaska or Africa, one could easily argue that I didn't "need" any additional centerfires. And I say someone else's concept of "need" is irrelevant.  Now my safe is full of fun things to shoot, from .22-250 to .45-70 - with a couple muzzleloaders thrown in.

Over the years I have met people from all over the world while hunting Colorado's elk.  Some of those folks were from Alabama, including a gentleman last year who was carrying a .300 WSM.  I guess its wrong for those folks to buy a magnum for the elk and then get some practical experience with it at home? And the Alabama gun buyer who hopes to hunt out west "someday" should refrain from buying a magnum just because "someday" isn't well defined?

You suggest that because the "average" range is under 100 yards that a magnum is not needed.  One might even agree - on "average".   But what about shooting whitetail over croplands?  Are you suggesting that doesn't happen in Alabama?  Or that a shooter knows inadvance when he buys a rifle whether or not he will ever encounter such shots? I've always been taught that it is better to be prepared than not, but perhaps such thinking is no longer valid.

By the way, magnum shooters do not need to "consistently throw half of them [deer] away due to bloodshoot meat".  Those that do are using the wrong bullet and, more importantly, not placing it properly.  A shot behind the shoulder will do the job and cause very little loss of meat. Further, you assume that every magnum is used with full-power loads, which is often not the case.  The first loads I developed for my .300 Win Mag were specifically designed to replicate .308 Win loads.

On a side note, Granddad never used his combine to harvest the sweet corn - but the plow and disc and harrow he used to prepare the ground for Grandma's garden were the same ones he used out in the corn and bean fields.

It may not be any of my business what you use to shoot small deer at close range but that doesn't make my opinion wrong. I've had a lot people tell me it's none of my business but nobody has given a practical reason why I'm wrong.

In my 55 years I've never known of a fatal case of "itch".  Scratching is NEVER a requirement, yet it is something we all do.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone purchasing and using a magnum just because they want one.  And its never wrong to use what others might consider "too much gun" if that's what pleases the shooter.

So, Todd1700 - please enlighten us - what SHOULD we be using for those Alabama deer?  What do YOU use?

[nomosendero]

Ummm, didn't I clearly state that there are reasons to have a magnum? Even listed what IMHO those reasons are. But I firmly stand by the assertion that shooing 150 lb deer at less than 100 yards is not one of them.

While I concur whole heartedly that a magnum is not required for shooting 150 pound whitetail at 100 yards, I would also suggest that NO rifle is needed for that purpose and that a handgun would work just fine.  If you follow your argument to its logical conclusion, you inevitably arrive at the conclusion that a firearm is not "needed" at all - just go hew a spear and go hunting.

My first centerfire rifle was purchased for the specific task of hunting Colorado's elk. That rifle, a 7mm Rem Mag, has taken elk, mule deer, antelope, coyotes and prairie dogs.  Since the chances are slim to none that I will ever hunt ALaska or Africa, one could easily argue that I didn't "need" any additional centerfires. And I say someone else's concept of "need" is irrelevant.  Now my safe is full of fun things to shoot, from .22-250 to .45-70 - with a couple muzzleloaders thrown in.

Over the years I have met people from all over the world while hunting Colorado's elk.  Some of those folks were from Alabama, including a gentleman last year who was carrying a .300 WSM.  I guess its wrong for those folks to buy a magnum for the elk and then get some practical experience with it at home? And the Alabama gun buyer who hopes to hunt out west "someday" should refrain from buying a magnum just because "someday" isn't well defined?

You suggest that because the "average" range is under 100 yards that a magnum is not needed.  One might even agree - on "average".   But what about shooting whitetail over croplands?  Are you suggesting that doesn't happen in Alabama?  Or that a shooter knows inadvance when he buys a rifle whether or not he will ever encounter such shots? I've always been taught that it is better to be prepared than not, but perhaps such thinking is no longer valid.

By the way, magnum shooters do not need to "consistently throw half of them [deer] away due to bloodshoot meat".  Those that do are using the wrong bullet and, more importantly, not placing it properly.  A shot behind the shoulder will do the job and cause very little loss of meat. Further, you assume that every magnum is used with full-power loads, which is often not the case.  The first loads I developed for my .300 Win Mag were specifically designed to replicate .308 Win loads.

On a side note, Granddad never used his combine to harvest the sweet corn - but the plow and disc and harrow he used to prepare the ground for Grandma's garden were the same ones he used out in the corn and bean fields.

It may not be any of my business what you use to shoot small deer at close range but that doesn't make my opinion wrong. I've had a lot people tell me it's none of my business but nobody has given a practical reason why I'm wrong.

In my 55 years I've never known of a fatal case of "itch".  Scratching is NEVER a requirement, yet it is something we all do.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone purchasing and using a magnum just because they want one.  And its never wrong to use what others might consider "too much gun" if that's what pleases the shooter.

So, Todd1700 - please enlighten us - what SHOULD we be using for those Alabama deer?  What do YOU use?

 







OUTSTANDING!!!!!

[nomosendero]

The horse is not dead yet, but he is faltering.....
are we all going to take the final step and beat him to death?

There is going to be no agreement in this thread!
Shoot what you feel comfortable with and be done with it !
Just be as humane as possible to your target.

Good post & good advise & it should go that way. But I have noticed something that simply won't
go away. Those who shoot magnums alot or a little(not often in my case), have no problem whatsoever
with those who use std. rounds or std. bullets if those work well for the people using them & work
well for the conditions, ranges & the types of animals being hunted.
But for MANY(certainly not all) of the std. round/bullet users, the reverse is not true & when they work for
the user, the facts don't matter. It is that way now & it will be so the next year & the next, but until
someone else pays for my gear, I will use what I choose.

But no doubt S. Sumner, I wish your advise could be taken in the spirit that you gave it!