Author Topic: What do you all think about the magnum trend?  (Read 12079 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Mr. Joe

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« on: July 28, 2006, 11:53:13 AM »
I just finished reading some classic Jack O'Connor and was suprised at his caliber recomendations.  I shouldnt really say suprised, refreshed may be a better word.  Jack recomended the .270 winchester or the 7mm Mauser (7X57) for use on Grizzly Bears.  Now Mr. O'Connor was no fool.  He has killed somthing like 30 Brown and Grizzly Bears.  This was done mainly in the 50s and 60s i think.  Why is it that in todays day and age, we feel like we must pack super magnums into the field?  I hate to say it, but is it the easy way out for a poor shot or a slob hunter?  I can see certin advantages to the magnums, but to be honest, most seem un-important in the field.  It seems many in the shooting community both young and old like certin cartridges because "its more powerfull than -------!"  With that logic, we should all buy rounds like the .50BMG or the .378 weatherby magnum.  This has become even more aperent with the advent of the internet.  Alot of hunters seem to have forgoten the formula for a succesfull kill.  Does anyone else see were im comming from?  I know not everyone is a couch potato balistic hunter because rounds like the .270, .30-06, and the great .308 still sell quite well, but the ammo companys keep introducing more magnums, so the market must be growning.  First we got the short mags, then we got the super short mags.  Whats next?  Were will it end?  Ive basicly arived at a point, that when somone recomneds a caliber for hunting, i ask myself "does this guy know more about hunting than Jack O'Connor, or has he taken more head of game?"  As you may have guessed, the answer is typicly, NO.
I am not afraid to make an example out of you

Offline jro45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1923
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2006, 03:19:32 AM »
Mr. Joe,
  I've seen bear killed with the 25/06 much less the 270. But if you think about the grizzles coming at you up in Alaska. I would prefer the 416 Rem in that case to brake bones and possiblely a head shot.
The 270 can kill a bear tho.

Offline Dave in WV

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2162
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2006, 03:58:54 AM »
I think the magnum trend is great! It has been responsible for the sale of many .243, .260,  7mm-08, .270, 30-06 chambered rifles. It seems the laws of physics didn't go away and magnums do kick more.  ;) Me? I have a .243, a 7mm-08, & a 30-06. All have dropped deer equally. Maybe "hitting them right" works best.
Setting an example is not the main means of influencing others; it is the only means
--Albert Einstein

Offline beemanbeme

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2587
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2006, 04:23:38 AM »
I think "magnum" has become a buzz word that has to be hung on any new cartridge if its expected to sell.  Lack of knowledge is one reason.  The mis-information and rank exaggerations that were used to sell Weatherby rifles are still floating around.  Also, if someone is buying their first rifle or their first rifle to hunt west of the big river, they have heard so many tales of the bullet proof deer, antelope, and bear as well as the vast distances one is expected to shoot, that they figure they'd better get something that is up to the task. Especially when they've heard that there is a savage, man-eating grizzly lurking behind every bush. And so the hype about the magnums kicks in.
That said, I'd rather face one of those savage, man-eating grizzlys with a .338 in my hands than a .270.  When we cite Jack OConnor and his iconic .270, lets not forget he had a guide at hand armed with a rifle of what calibre we don't know. I daresay however, when Elaine shot her elephant with a 30-06, her PH wasn't armed with a .270.   ;D

Offline nomosendero

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2006, 09:12:28 AM »
I think "magnum" has become a buzz word that has to be hung on any new cartridge if its expected to sell.  Lack of knowledge is one reason.  The mis-information and rank exaggerations that were used to sell Weatherby rifles are still floating around.  Also, if someone is buying their first rifle or their first rifle to hunt west of the big river, they have heard so many tales of the bullet proof deer, antelope, and bear as well as the vast distances one is expected to shoot, that they figure they'd better get something that is up to the task. Especially when they've heard that there is a savage, man-eating grizzly lurking behind every bush. And so the hype about the magnums kicks in.
That said, I'd rather face one of those savage, man-eating grizzlys with a .338 in my hands than a .270.  When we cite Jack OConnor and his iconic .270, lets not forget he had a guide at hand armed with a rifle of what calibre we don't know. I daresay however, when Elaine shot her elephant with a 30-06, her PH wasn't armed with a .270.   ;D

Very good answer, there is good & bad with these magnums. Those who want to think the 270/7mauser is the thing will quote O'Connor, those who like big bores will quote Elmer Keith, so which one was right? Well, both were right part of the time, depending on the situation. Mr. Keith wanted to be able to shoot big game at whatever angle he could & O'Conner being quite wealthy could stay out there until he picked his shot &
we all know that if you can take these perfect double lung shots only you can use less gun. If you want to be able to shoot an elk in the point of the shoulder & take out the lungs & do so at any distance that you are TOTALLY capable of doing so, now we are out of the 270 realm in my view.
So, a better question may be how much time do you have. When I go on a Western hunt I have a week to 10 days max & then duty calls. Mr.
O'Conner could stay until he got that textbook shot, whether it was a week or a month. How about you? The same thing applies to all of our
hunting weapons. I hunt with a bow, handgun, MZ, & rifles & they all work, & I could fill all of my AR. Deer tags with a bow, but it would take a lot
more time & I would have to pass up a lot of animals out of range, I think you get my point.

Another factor to consider is O'Conner was smart enough to know that if he made one item his trademark he would become famous. His item & his
crusade was the 270. Other younger writers observed this & did the same, for example we know Jon Sundra as Mr. 7mm & that became his claim to fame. Seyfried became the premium bullet man & on & on.  O'Conner would distort the facts to promote the 270 & that is unfortunate. For example, he would compare the trajectory of the 270 & the 7RM, with the 270 he would quote his classic 130 gr. spitzer reload & for the 7RM he
would quote the Rem. Corelokt load which was loaded by Rem at a lower pressure & also the Corelokt has a blunt tip & a low BC. Then he would say,
see, the 270 is almost as flat as the 7RM, oh my!!!!  The 270 is a trully great round & can stand on it's own merits but he made it a little bigger & it
worked, look at the difference in the 270 sales compared to the 280, many feel the 280 is better but it will never catch up, so Jack was a 270 Salesman. I was a college student & owned a 7RM back when he was writing this & I used it for Groundhogs to Deer & felt this was all quite amusing.

Of course he promoted the 30-06 & 7mm Ma. some but it was not his focus. I remember once he said that if the 338WM killed better than a 30-06,
he failed to see it. Oh really!! 'Tell you what. Sometime stand beside a trophy Brown Bear or Polar Bear mount & ask yourself, if I was hunting this
animal & he had me spotted & was facing me, which would I rather have, a 30-06 or a 338, give me a break!!  Don't get me wrong, I liked alot of his stuff & learned from him, I guess what to expect from lung shooting Deer was one of the first things I learned from him. But he had a ton of
bias, & for that reason I would weigh what he said with the experiences of others & his input would only be part of a decision instead of taking it at face value.

Another very important fact to consider is other than the Nos. Part. starting to make a dent then you only had std. bullets which meant that mags
did not do as well as they should at close range if they were loaded to take advantage of long range shots, in other words too explosive up close.
If you gun did not like the Part. (& many did not back then because they were not as precise as now) then you did not have a good magnum bullet. Now the Part is accurate plus you have many, many bullets that can handle the stress. So, unlike the past, you can have your cake & eat it,
you are good to go up close & at a little more range than the std. rounds, if where you hunt does not call for that, then use a std. round & a std. bullet if they fit your needs.

There are folks that buy a magnum just because someone else did just like people buy an expensive car because their neighbor did. That applies to all material things & will never end. so what? Goofy people abound!! Sometimes it is ego, same deal, & not my problem.

 Personally I don't need the extra power or range very often & therefore I don't use mags. alot, but on rare occassions I do. I base those decisions on the situations that I may encounter & not on what some so called Guru thinks. In 3 of my last 4 trips to Wy. I used a std. round. I my be going on a short Elk hunt this fall (cows) in CO. & in talking about the conditions I may take my 300 (in this case distance more than power).

What it boils down to is I use what I need to get the job done & it is up to us to know what we need. If a person feels they don't need a mag., I
am OK with that, the same should apply to those who wants to use a mag., if they can use it effectively, but non-mag. shooters are usually not OK with that for whatever reason, which does not effect my decision in the slightest.

This idea that someone wants to use a magnum to make up for poor shooting is an uneducated opinion at best. It would apply to as mentioned before those who buy because of someone else or ego but not experienced hunters who buy based on what works best for them.
It is a funny thing to me that most of the really good shots that I know use std. rounds & magnums as well. Why?







 

 

You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline 379 Peterbilt

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2006, 09:19:01 AM »
Where I live, all the critters can be killed with .30 cal and down. But..I am hunting moose in Ak this year, so the decision to upgrade to a 338 WM was, in my mind, justifiable for obvious reasons.

I'd liken this to horsepower in your car or truck. You'll often hear guys whine about not having enough, but never the other way around, hahaa.

anyone who's owned nothing more than say a 270, and now wants to go magnum big - prepare yourself for sticker shock on premium factory ammo  ;D

Offline PeterCartwright

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 289
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2006, 09:56:16 AM »
I've never read Robert Ruark (sp?), but the title of his classic book, "Use Enough Gun" comes to mind.  Nobody really NEEDS the latest
".460 Tyranasaurus" for typical whitetail hunting.  On the other hand, if you can handle the .338 Ultra Mag for an elk hunt (my guess is, not very many of us can), by all means, go for it!  Only please don't tell me your big gun makes up for poor marksmanship.

Several years ago, one of the gunwriters (Carmichael, I think) wrote an article about a fellow who came to elk camp with a .243 Winchester.  Now I know that lots of experienced westerners have taken plenty of elk venison with the little rifle, but this guy didn't respect the limitations of his weapon.  The other guys in the elk camp called him "shoot and release Williams".  The article was something of a reprise of Ruark's classic work.

As for me, I picked up a used .338 Winchester Magnum a few years ago to "play" with.  I've restocked it (from "tupperware" to laminated birch) and added a sorbothane (sp?) butt pad.  I haven't shot anything with it, yet, but I've had a lot of fun at the range (and the loading bench).  Do I need it?...Well, a guy never knows when there might be an infestation of coastal grizzlies up here in the U.P. (grin).

With respect to latest batch of magnums:  Arms companies are in business to sell guns.  Nothing wrong with that.  Creating markets is good business.

Offline victorcharlie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3573
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2006, 10:37:36 AM »
When I was young I was all about speed.......fast cars......fast cartridges.....fast women........

Now, I guess I'm more about comfort.........I'll take a smooth comfortable ride over a stiff hot rod, I'd rather have a lighter, milder recoiling rifle and  cartridge combination, and fast, rude, loud women I find annoying.......

If I were to hunt dangerous game then a big magnum would be my pick under most circumstance........

Fact is, the most dangerous game around here would be black bears or hogs.........nothing the .35 Remington won't handle......as most of this game is taken well under 100 yards......

I think it's kind of funny, that most things now with the exception of new cartridges are built as light and cheap as they can be made........and solid construction has been replaced by "more cost effective materials"........Most starter homes built around here scare me.....I can stick my hand through the wall..........

I see a lot of .300 Mag ammo sold at the local sporting goods store though.....and rarely find more than a couple of boxes of .35 Remington ammo on the shelf.........

Threre's a time and a place for everything fellows......magnums included......
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline Mr. Joe

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2006, 02:09:18 PM »
Dont get me wrong, i never said that everybody who buys a magnum is purchasing one to make up for poor shooting, but you must admit, that most of the magnums are not needed for most american hunting.  I know many that are usefull.  I have a 7mm rem mag that i like alot.  Around me, the average shot on a white tail or elk for that matter is within 100 yards, yet many a ill informed hunter thinks he needs a .300mag for this task.  Im simply saying, that the magnum is not the required prescription.  I agree, that there are situations taylor made for the magnums, but i do think they are not the norm. 
I am not afraid to make an example out of you

Offline Patriot_1776

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Gender: Male
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2006, 02:26:13 PM »
I'd sum it all up this way:

1.  Standard cartridges spit standard weight bullets fast enough. 

2.  Magnum cartridges kick even heavier bullets out just as fast.

Now, its simply a matter of what you need.



-Patriot

Offline jdt48653

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 372
  • walk softly and carry a 264
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2006, 02:58:58 PM »
if i were shooting a 243 or a 30/30 on deer i think i could call a 270 or a 30/06 a magnum.
are not all cartridges to a degree a magnum over a lesser load!

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2006, 07:46:47 PM »
IIRC, much as O’Connor wrote about the .270, I think his favorite rifle was .30-06.  Someone, I hope, will correct me if I’m wrong.  Also, another noted writer of the era recommended larger calibers and heavier bullets and helped invent the .33 OKH.  Perhaps you have heard of Elmer Keith? 

Regardless of how many big bears O’Conner took with whatever cartridges, I know that if I had to stop a charge I would NOT want a .270 or 7x57 in my hands.  My .45-70 and a 460g hardcast moving along at 1812fps, at 48 foot-pounds recoil, would give me much more confidence than anything less than a .338.  That load can drill sideways through two Cape Buffalo.  That load generates more recoil than a .375 RUM and makes my .300 Win Mag feel like a pussycat in comparison. 

Personally, I don’t care what others shoot and have no problem with the new magnums.  There has been lust in my heart for some time for a .338 or .375 RUM, but now that Ruger is (reportedly) coming out with a new .375 magnum that fits in a standard length action, I’ve set my sights on that instead.  My latest acquisitions include a .257 Roberts, .30-30 and .308Win – not exactly magnums.  The .257 was sold to me by a man with a case of magnumitis, his loss.

When people ask me what they should bring to Colorado to hunt elk with, my usual response is almost anything in .270 or over will do fine.  (I generally recommend a .30-30 with 170g bullets instead of a .243 for young elk hunters.)  I tend to focus more on the bullets and generally recommend Partition, A-Frame, Trophy Bonded, or North Fork.  I also recommend practice at extended ranges - 200 yards and beyond.  It is my belief that such practice makes one a better shooter even at closer ranges, builds confidence, and prepares the shooter for the occasional long shot.  I shoot more at 200 yards than at any other range, even with my Marlins in .30-30, .375 Win and .45-70.  These "short range" rifles also get shot at 300 yards on a fairly regular basis and the .375 and .45-70 are deadly on the steel rams at 500 meters.

That said, I do not try to dissuade people from bringing magnums if they can shoot them with reasonable accuracy, as many people can. My most accurate rifles are non-magnums (heavy barrel .22-250 and sporter-weight .308Win), but the half-inch or inch difference at 100 yards is insignificant when shooting elk.








Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline handirifle

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3570
    • http://www.handirifle.com
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2006, 12:34:25 PM »
I think each round has a place.  Some can shoot them some not.  For those that can, it's just added reach.  Friend of mine hunts ONLY with his custom 300 Win Mag and I witnessed him one day pop a 12" rock from a sitting postion.  No bipod or tree to rest on either, just his knees.  Oh yes, the rock was nearly 500yds away, verified by three of us.

No one knew the distance BEFORE he shot.  I lost $5 on that shot too.

For him the mag is THE perfect rifle.
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Offline pastorp

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (46)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4697
  • Gender: Male
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2006, 12:59:56 PM »
Jack did say a 270 or 7mm would kill a brown bear and he let his wife hunt them with one but he used a 375h&h for his brown bear hunts. He also used a 416rigby in africa. What he said and what he did were two diferent things.

He did kill interior grizzlies with the 270 & 30/06. Big diference in size. Regards, Byron  ;D
Byron

Christian by choice, American by the grace of God.

NRA LIFE

Offline fknipfer

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 203
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2006, 01:10:09 PM »
I think the magnum trend is a way to sell guns nothing more nothing less.  Once you have a 30-30, .270, 30-06 or 300Mag why would you  need anything else.  The gun manufactures are stupid and don't want to to out of business so they come up with magnums.  Just like the car business change model every year if they could get us.

TMHO

fknipfer
Kansas Rifle Association
NRA Life Member
I am not a gun collector, I am an accumulator
US Army Veteran

Offline handirifle

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3570
    • http://www.handirifle.com
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2006, 04:46:40 PM »
I think the magnum trend is a way to sell guns nothing more nothing less.  Once you have a 30-30, .270, 30-06 or 300Mag why would you  need anything else. fknipfer


Now why cut down magnums and include this one as a must have?  Seems contradictatory to me.

I see no need for most of them but then again I don't shoot at deer at 500-600yds either.
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Offline Mac11700

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6875
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2006, 08:05:34 PM »
Quote
Once you have a 30-30, .270, 30-06 or 300Mag why would you  need anything else. 

Wants and Needs are to different things...are they not.....

Some may see no need for one...many many others do...it's called "choice".....and that my friends is what Democracy is all about...

Way too many people get on the magnum bashing kick...I don't live "By your leave...and will make my choice as I see fit...not yours..or any gunwriter

I for one am glad the gun makers re-invent all these cartridges...it gives the industry a shot in the arm..and keeps jobs here in this country...and this is something we need...

Ohhh...bye the bye...I don't own any true magnums anymore...I made the choice to sell/trade them because I wanted something else...but if the need ever arises..or if I just plain want one...I'll get another one...but...I don't mind if you own any and shoot them responsabily,why should anyone else?

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Todd1700

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 176
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2006, 11:18:02 PM »
Magnums have their place where they shine but it's been my experience that very few of the people who own one are using them in a way that warrents the extra power. Out to 300 yards there is little difference in the on game performance of a magnum vs some other standard caliber. It's only out past 300 yards that Magnum rounds start to seperate themselves in terms of retained energy and trajectory. But this leads to a sort of catch 22 because the extra recoil and muzzle blast of a magnum often diminishes a persons ability to shoot well out past 300 yards. Thus removing the primary advantage of a magnum in the first place.

Offline Redhawk1

  • Life time NRA Supporter.
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (78)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Gender: Male
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2006, 12:24:23 AM »
I own both standard and Magnum rifles. There is a place for all of them. This question pops up every now and then, and in my opinion it is nothing but a loaded question and causes undue tension from the non-magnum supporters and magnum supporters. All cartridges have there place, you don't like them, don't use them. In the same token don't criticize other that make the choice to use them.  ;D
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Endowment Life Member of the NRA
Life Member NA

Offline victorcharlie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3573
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2006, 02:07:07 AM »
Very well put Redhawk1!

This topic, and the premium bullet topic usually goes no where and serves to create ill will between the members.

This country still enjoyes the blessing of abundance.......and the choices that come with it.....ain't nothing wrong with that!
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline Savage .250

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1714
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2006, 02:13:37 AM »
  Does that old phrase, build a better mouse trap maybe apply here? No matter what the product, somebody, in this case cartridge/gun manufacturers, believe there is a need/demand/ for a newer model of their product in order to keep a head of the curve from the shooting/hunting public.
   It must be working cause a lot of folks buy into the "need " for the faster ,more powerful, hit something 6 states away from your house mentality. Maybe it`s a
   macho thing.
   New is not always better but by the same token it`s  not bad either. My safe (closet) is full of old soldiers that every year.........do the job. That being said, the
  newer stuff holds no interest for me. Besides i`m broke.
   
 
 
   
" The best part of the hunt is not the harvest but in the experience."

Offline handirifle

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3570
    • http://www.handirifle.com
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2006, 06:41:39 AM »
Magnums, to me are like fast cars.  We don't really need them, most of the time, but they sure come in handy when you do.  Besides they are sometime just plain fun.

For those that disdain the magnums, I don't, how mant have loaded their chosen caliber to it's MAX potential?  Others may not like to reload and still want that power.  A perfect case in point, to me, is the 450 marlin vs the 45-70.  They don't call it such, but the 450 Marlin is a 45-70 magnum.  Those of us that have owned a 45-70 know it's potential but non-reloader had very few, affordable, choices for higher power, so the 450 was created.

I agree with Mac, in that I too, say keep it going.  Hey, I have no desire or need for the Lazzaroni rounds, but someone does and it keeps him in business.  Go for it Lazz!
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Offline S.S.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2006, 07:05:27 AM »
To start this off, I must say that I have never really found a gun that was not fun to shoot!
Magnum or not, I am glad that companies are coming out with new things.
But I think the term MAGNUM or Tactical or X-treme or XXX-treme, (Well, you get the point)
are mostly sales gimmicks anyway. I do not think that anyone here could not agree that there are already a couple of cartridges that are perfectly suited to hunt every animal on earth in every terrain already. But does it hurt to have a wide variety of choices? (actually, I think too many choices killed the Win. 94 and M. 70 but that is a different story) I am actually one of those folks who like diversity.
Will I ever hunt anything anymore that my old 35 Remington will not kill? - Doubtful, But I still like
my 270 WSM and will probably keep it anyway. .22 Rf and .22 Mag fans really made fun of the little
17 HMR AND Mach2 but I now have them both. If someone comes out with a .14 Roach Killer Magnum, or a .12 Flea Blaster Magnum, Yep, I will probably be a sucker and get one.
I just like shooting, Magnum or not!
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline nomosendero

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2006, 09:17:51 AM »
Magnums have their place where they shine but it's been my experience that very few of the people who own one are using them in a way that warrents the extra power. Out to 300 yards there is little difference in the on game performance of a magnum vs some other standard caliber. It's only out past 300 yards that Magnum rounds start to seperate themselves in terms of retained energy and trajectory. But this leads to a sort of catch 22 because the extra recoil and muzzle blast of a magnum often diminishes a persons ability to shoot well out past 300 yards. Thus removing the primary advantage of a magnum in the first place.

Sounds good, doesn't it? And oh, only if it was the case we could cancel out the need for magnums. Only problem is that most people that shoot long range & do it well at least part of the time use magnums, so this doesn't pan out in my experience.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline longwinters

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3070
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2006, 11:42:11 AM »
The thing is that most Americans that own magnums never have or will hunt anything bigger than deer.  Personally I don't care what anyone shoots, but the gun manufactures only have a few options available to them if they want to sell more rifles.  They can take the ones they have and improve them (higher cost) and hope we will be willing to pay for the quality.  They can develope smaller calibers, bring in the European calibers etc... or develope bigger calibers.  Generally speaking people don't like to go smaller with much of anything so maybe this small caliber market is limited.  People who only hunt and don't do a lot of off season shooting probably don't want to spend more money for a rifle that, for them, won't shoot a deer any deader than what they already have.  The European calibers just confuse most common hunters so that leaves the magnums.  I think they are here to stay although at least some will fade into the twilite like the RUM's (just opinion here). 

Long

Life is short......eternity is long.

Offline TreyAzagthoth

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 149
  • Gender: Male
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2006, 01:24:10 PM »
I own both standard and Magnum rifles. There is a place for all of them. This question pops up every now and then, and in my opinion it is nothing but a loaded question and causes undue tension from the non-magnum supporters and magnum supporters. All cartridges have there place, you don't like them, don't use them. In the same token don't criticize other that make the choice to use them.  ;D
couldnt of said it better myself
I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?"
Well, to tell the truth I shoot a Springfield XD so it doesnt really matter.

Offline nomosendero

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2006, 01:58:10 PM »
I own both standard and Magnum rifles. There is a place for all of them. This question pops up every now and then, and in my opinion it is nothing but a loaded question and causes undue tension from the non-magnum supporters and magnum supporters. All cartridges have there place, you don't like them, don't use them. In the same token don't criticize other that make the choice to use them.  ;D
couldnt of said it better myself


+1
Yes, Redhawk has a unique ability to say a WHOLE LOT in a brief paragraph.

When someone asks me what time it is, I have to build them a dang watch!!   ???
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2006, 03:27:57 AM »
I think the magnum trend is a way to sell guns nothing more nothing less.  Once you have a 30-30, .270, 30-06 or 300Mag why would you  need anything else.  The gun manufactures are stupid and don't want to to out of business so they come up with magnums. …

Why such a long list?  Just get a 22” .308Win and know you’re covered for 99+% of the shots you are likely to take.  (In my 25 years of hunting Colorado’s big game, it would be 100%, the longest shot being 350 yards for a nice 6x5 bull elk.)

For that matter, a .30-30 and factory loaded 170g bullets, zeroed for 150 yards, will do most of what needs doing – at 200 yards its down less than 5” and still carries almost 1,000fpe.  Hand loads, of course, will do a bit better.  Using the WW 170g Power Point loads I can ring the gong at 300 yards almost every time, even with a good crosswind.   If a .357 Magnum handgun is adequate for whitetails, then a .30-30 loaded with 130g Speer bullets at a nominal 2500fps (Hodgdon 2004 Annual Manual @ 2496fps) is a 300 yard antelope and whitetail rifle – and that’s only because the bullet drop is about 13” at that range, as energy levels don’t fall to the that of a 158g .357 at the muzzle until 435 yards!  Or take a Speer 170g FN and push it to 2250fps – at 300 yards it still carries 915fpe and is down less than 17”.   Can’t kill a deer at 300 yards with that load?  Why the heck not?  (It sure isn’t the cartridge’s fault!)

So who needs more than a good old .30-30?  Maybe a .270 or .30-06 is just an excuse for, in Mr. Joe’s words, a “poor shot or a slob hunter”?  (As if a more powerful rifle will correct for a poor shot or a non-magnum will turn a ‘slob hunter’ into something else – ain’t neither one going to happen.) 

The anti-magnum people often complain that there is no need for magnums and that hunters just need to ‘get closer’ and/or learn to shoot their non-magnum rifles.  To them I say, “Get a .30-30”.  But I have news for them – getting closer is not always possible and many people shoot their magnums just fine.

As to the new magnums, I welcome them!  (And not just the magnums, but cartridges like the new .338 Federal.)  While I have no personal use for many of them, I say let the market sort them out – in time there will be winners and losers and the winners will be winners for good reason.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline kx90

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 43
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2006, 03:42:44 AM »
My uncle asked me last Thanksgiving "Why did you buy a .338 RUM?  You'll never need anything more than your 30.06."  I started to try and justify a 'need' for it when he stops me and says "The same reason I have a .338 Lapua, because you wanted one" and then he just smiled and I basically just shook my head in agreement.  Then I went and said "I just figured if I never get to get another rifle I wanted something unique and powerful..." he then laughed and said "Yeah, like that'll be your last rifle!".  He's right you know, I've already begun research on my next TWO rifles :D

If I only bought what I needed and nothing more then I would have just kept using the 30-30 Marlin my great-grandfather gave me.

Nobody in the lower 48 needs to go hunting to survive anymore, so that is a choice also. 
Remington 7600 - 30.06Sprg, currently topless.
Remington 700XCR - .338RUM, Burris Fullfield II 3-9x/40, Burris Dovetail rings and base mounts.

SigPro 2022 - .40S&W
Glock 26 O.D.

Offline Mac11700

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6875
Re: What do you all think about the magnum trend?
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2006, 04:41:23 AM »
Quote
The thing is that most Americans that own magnums never have or will hunt anything bigger than deer.

I don't think your correct in this assumption...While many folks certainly use their magnums just for deer...I would bet a fair amount of them regularly use them on larger game too...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...