Author Topic: Range Report!! (UPDATED!!) (Read 1649 times)

quickdtoo · « **on:** July 28, 2006, 01:18:48 PM »

Spent the morning at the range today, got off to a bad start when the RO informed me that the range was only open to the public on Wednesday and Sunday, they changed their policy since I was last there, but since I’m an ex-RO/Member, he let me shoot for nothing since he couldn’t collect money, which they’ve raised the fee to $15 which I kinda thought they would, it’s been steadily increasing for the last few years from $5 to $8, then $10, but at least they’re still open even tho there are several new homes in the area and more probably on the way.

Shot the .35 Remington Handi first with .359” 240gr WLNGC Mt Baldy cast bullets, got it on paper at 50yds, then moved to the 100yd range, set up my chrono and commenced to shooting there, best group was 1½”, velocity was 1925fps w/Varget.

Also shot some .359” 200gr FNGC Beartooth Bullets, best group was .935”, velocity was 2125fps, again with Varget.

Next up was the .35 Whelen RMEF Ultra w/ 250gr Speer Spitzers, after getting it on paper, moved to the 100yd range, best group was .845” w/BL-C2, velocity was 2590fps, who ever said the 1:16” twist rate in the .35 Whelen wouldn’t stabilize 250gr spitzers is all wet!! Recoil was healthy, but very tolerable, but I was wearing a Past magnum shoulder pad!!

I also shot the .405 Winchester Target with 350gr Barnes XFB, bad news here, start loads were only 1350 fps or so, I worked up to 50gr of H4895 at 1580fps and accuracy was terrible, need to do some more work with that, Hodgdon’s data shows the 400gr Woodleigh RNSP at 1945fps with 51.5grs in a 24” barrel, you would think that the 28” barrel would give better velocity than that with a lighter bullet. I’ll have to try seating deeper and a crimp, dunno. One thing I’m thinking is maybe the solid copper bullet doesn’t fill the bore as much as a lead core jacketed bullet, so there’s not as good a seal. Didn’t get any significant copper fouling tho, so I’m really scratching my head on what’s up with the poor velocity and accuracy. Even with the 300gr Hornady factory semi-spitzers, and the longer jump to the lands, velocity was right at 2150fps and accuracy was excellent.

Shot my .338-06 Ultra to see what kind of velocity I was getting with the 230gr Failsafes and H414, got 2610fps with that load.

More later,

Tim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2006, 04:44:08 PM »

Way to go Quick...

I'm looking forward to more detailed info on all of themmm

Mac

Paul5388 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2006, 07:22:27 PM »

Tim,

You might ask Ranch13 on handloads.com about the .405. I'm sure he has one and pretty sure he uses cast in it. It may be what he shot the Quigley Match with.

tanoose · « **Reply #3 on:** July 29, 2006, 03:02:13 AM »

Hi Quick , was the 35 whelen load at or near max with that powder? and is that a 22" or 24" barrel? Thanks Tanoose

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** July 29, 2006, 05:02:56 AM »

Hi Tanoose,

Hodgdon shows 59grs BL-C2 max for the 250gr Hornady SP at 2503 in a 24" barrel, this barrel is 26". COL is 3.5" which is .005" off the lands.

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** July 29, 2006, 07:14:38 AM »

Quote from: Paul5388 on July 28, 2006, 07:22:27 PM

Tim,

You might ask Ranch13 on handloads.com about the .405. I'm sure he has one and pretty sure he uses cast in it.

Paul, I'm puzzled by your suggestion, I don't shoot cast in the .405, are you saying maybe I should??

Tim

dodd3 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 29, 2006, 05:01:40 PM »

hey tim the Whelen RMEF looks a winer what sort of groups from the 405.
bernie

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** July 29, 2006, 05:11:21 PM »

Thanks Bernie! The .405 shot terrible, more of a pattern than a group!

Most shots weren't even on the 8½"x11" target paper, but it shoots the 300gr factory ammo inside an inch at 100yds.

Tim

Paul5388 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 29, 2006, 06:01:32 PM »

Tim,

It might not be a bad idea with the "pattern" you got with jacketed. However, I missed what bullet you were using and just looked at the velocity. I guess that velocity was what triggered thoughts of cast in the .405.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** July 29, 2006, 06:14:35 PM »

Paul, it shoots the 300gr factory jacketed ammo excellent, the 2 groups in the pic are both 3 shot 100yd groups!! I could understand it not liking the extra long XBT, but the velocity loss on top of the inaccuracy really has me baffled!

Tim

nomosendero · « **Reply #10 on:** July 29, 2006, 08:21:14 PM »

It sure likes that 300 gr. fact. load, & it sure shows potential for other loads, but what?

Paul5388 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 29, 2006, 08:24:08 PM »

Tim,

There certainly isn't anything wrong with those groups!

I'm remembering the .405 isn't something you would want to shoot factory loads out of all the time due to cost, so I think I'd see about handloading some Hornady bullets and see if they will do anything close to factory loads. WOW, I just looked at Midway's prices for bullets and it convinced me the Hornady is the only way to go with jacketed bullets! These are half the price of Hornady jacketed bullets and I get good results with Hunters Supply in my .45-70. The Meisters look like they would be too small in diameter at .410".

dodd3 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2006, 04:21:13 AM »

tim what rate of twist is the 405 and what weight is the long bullet you mentiond.
bernie

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2006, 11:57:29 AM »

Well, if I can't get the 350gr Barnes XFB to shoot good, I might just have to stick with the Hornady Interlock soft points, I have a box, but I have 2 boxes of the Barnes bullets cuz they're still available as a discontinued item at Barnes. Twist rate is the standard 1:14" for the .405 Win. The XBT is a long bullet at 1.425" long, so maybe it just won't stabilize in that twist, but that doesn't explain the velocity deficit, but being all copper, maybe they just don't upset in the bore enough for a good seal.

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=138446

http://www.storesonline.com/site/448423/product/X-41185

Fred M · « **Reply #14 on:** July 30, 2006, 02:38:51 PM »

Tim.
At 3.66 FS and 1350 ft the barnes bullet is plenty stabilized. Just be sure the bullet is the same as the bore diameter and do not load to the lands stay away at leasst 20 thou.
I found that Barnes bullets shoot best at smoking velocities.

You should be able to load this bullet to 50k+ and 1800 ft. Jacketed or solid copper bullets don't upset in the bore. These bullets should fit the bore. Though I think a bit slower powder with some compression would work better?

Just remember solid brass or copper bullets will increase chamber pressure by 7200 psi from ordinary bullets with lead cores.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2006, 02:51:28 PM »

The diameter may be the problem, but they measure the same as the 300gr Hornady bullets that shoot excellect which are also supposed to be .411", but measure .410" with my calipers, don't have a micrometer. I'm loaded well off the lands, loads aren't compressed, tho. I have some Varget which is slower than the H4895, will load some up with a shorter COL and see how that goes.

Thanks Fred!

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** August 02, 2006, 12:19:23 PM »

Made another range trip today, shot the .405 Winchester Target, .338-06 Ultra, SS 30-06 and .22-250 Fluted Ultra Varmint.

The .405 just doesn’t like the 350gr XFB, they aren’t accurate and velocity is way below what would be expected, using Fred’s suggested loads from QL, I got at least 200fps less velocity and shotgun patterns, so that ends the quest for using those bullets.

The 300gr Hornady SP was a different matter, those shoot great, typical H&R accuracy, at 100yds 2 shots touching or closer and the 3rd a bit of a flyer when shot back to back, if I let it cool after the 2nd shot, they'd all be together. Best group was .675" with the first 2 almost in one hole using 56.5gr of Benchmark, runner up was 1.195" w/56grs. Velocity was right at 2420fps, 57gr caused them to stick just enough that the ejector wouldn’t kick em out, in fact the first one that stuck, ejected while I was sticking a rod in the muzzle. The primers also started flattening a little.

Shot the stainless .30-06 that I bought from Kufford last year, using 150gr Fusion ammo, was really excited when the first 2 rounds were almost touching and velocity was right at 3000fps, but the 3rd shot was almost 2" low and velocity dropped to 2940fps, if the velocity was consistent, they’d be great shooters, but that was the experience I got, most were right at 2999 to 3010 fps, but several were 50-60fps slower, I have a few left, gonna weight em and see if I can find a weight difference, dunno what’s up with that, maybe just a bad batch.

Shot the .22-250 with Rem UMC 50gr JHP factory ammo, my floating job on the forend seemed to make a difference, but the ammo just doesn’t shoot good, velocity was good at around 3800fps, but again inconsistent, some were considerably less than that, when the velocity was closer, they grouped good. I’ll have to work up some 50gr Vmax loads before another range trip.

Also shot some 200gr CT Ballistic Silvertips and BL-C2 in the .338-06, best accuracy was w/56gr at 2675fps with 2 shots almost in the same hole and 3rd about an inch away, but velocity was close, maybe I pulled that one or the barrel was just too hot, 56.5grs put 2 holes touching and another away from the group for a 1.1” group, again velocity was consistent at about 2690fps. Even hotter loads provided acceptable accuracy at about 1½” with 58.5gr at 2875fps, which is pretty good considering the barrel is throated for 250gr bullets. Cases started sticking at 58.5gr even tho primers looked good.

Had a bit of excitement when I was shooting the .30-06, velocity had been running 2940-3010fps, then one shot was 3249fps!!! WHAT!!!! Couldn’t figure that one out, brass ejected fine, looked good, and this was factory ammo!! Then I noticed one of the sky screens on the chrono had popped off the rod and was hanging off to one side!! Put it back together at the next cease fire, and I was back in business.

Tim

dodd3 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 02, 2006, 02:01:36 PM »

tim have you tride any 400 grn bullets in it yet, the reason i ask is a friend of mine has a 444 marlin that wont shoot 265 grn bullets, but loves 300 grn bullets try and figger that one. may be yours is just fussy the same as his about what it likes to shoot.keep us posted and good luck.
bernie

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** August 02, 2006, 02:20:29 PM »

I'd love to Bernie, but no one makes 400gr spitzers, just solids or round nose. Northfork is working on a 360gr, but it's still in development.

Tim

Norseman112 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 02, 2006, 04:25:33 PM »

Thanks for the report Tim, very enjoyable to read. Your .338-06 has always peaked my interest, I remember when you and Mac got them. Seems like that worked out pretty good for both of you. Have you had a chance to take it hunting? Just curious

John

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** August 02, 2006, 04:32:23 PM »

No John, not yet, last year was a bust for hunting, neither me nor my huntin partner were healthy enough to hunt, but this year will be different, we've already bought our deer tags and will definitely be hunting.....the big problem is just which rifle to hunt with!!!

Tim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 02, 2006, 06:32:41 PM »

Looking Good Tim:

I can't wait fpr a break from the 100 + tempreatures here,so I can get out and start shooting again. I appreciate you loading those SBT up and shooting them..I'll let you know what OAL I get off of them and how far up the ladder I can go with them...since mine isn't throated for the 250's...

Mac

Paul5388 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 02, 2006, 07:01:03 PM »

Mac,

I was talking to my aunt, who lives in Arnold, last week to see if she had electricity. She said it had just come back on after about 4 days of being off and it sure had been hot without A/C. That's when I reminded her of the heat we had in the middle '50s that buckled the brick streets ( my grandparents lived on Oregon that was brick) and we didn't have A/C back then!

She said she wasn't 71 back then and I wasn't 62 then either!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 03, 2006, 04:56:44 AM »

Paul:

It's hot 4-sure...We are supposed to get a little cool down with a front moving thru tonite..it should drop all the way down to 92-95 with 85-95% humidity

I took a temp reading on the outwalls at work lastnite on the 18th floor...it was 116 degree's at 7pm...maybe not hot enough to warp bricks.....but sheeeeeeeese...I wish it would rain for a couple days.........to cool things off..

Mac