Author Topic: eastern coyotes larger then western?  (Read 1072 times)

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Offline kyote

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eastern coyotes larger then western?
« on: July 29, 2006, 05:02:05 PM »
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0806_020806_coyote.html

I have saw where it had been mentioned that eastern coyotes were a lot larger then thier western brothers.N.G. gives some great insite to it.
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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2006, 02:56:54 AM »
To do that you would need some insight in how the coyote migrated to the east coast.  They didn't migrate in a west to east movement but rather as the wolves were killed off in N. Dak and such the coyotes moved into the vacum.  Thense into Minn and upstate NY.  Then acrost to the east coast and down. 
When coyotes move into an area, they will breed with any canine that is available.  The same coyote that will kill and eat a domestic dog once they have an established a breeding population, will breed with it if that is all that's available.
Along their migration, they picked up genes from feral and domestic dogs and remnant wolves. 
I have hunted and trapped coyotes in Okla, Wy, Tenn, and WV.  The eastern coyote is bigger and, IMO, more agressive.  I'm not saying they are a peril but, when cornered, they will make a much more feroscious display.
When I lived in Tenn, Memphis State U was doing a study on the eastern coyote and I donated several carcasses to them. That's how I learned about the migration pattern.  :)

Offline onecoyote

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2006, 05:21:14 AM »
You got it all wrong man, they swam across the Mississippi and stowed away on boats crossing the big river. On the way they mated with the red wolf, thus such large eastern coyotes. That's the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. ;D ;)
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Offline kyote

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2006, 11:47:11 AM »
so much for N.Gs credibility..he he he..
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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2006, 12:24:44 PM »
I've had several beavers in my boat on the Mississippi but never a coyote.  Maybe even a couple of real dogs but.................  ;D

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2006, 04:55:24 AM »
bemanbeme
Are you old enough to remember the so called 100yr flood? Happened around 10years ago + -.

Those liberals were using boats to rescue coyotes out of tree's ::) :D :D
I really shouldn't say that. It did happen but could have been DNR or concerned citizens
Or those Liberals :D
I would have got those yotes out of the tree's if you know what I mean.

Kyote
I would rate N.G's credibility as being no better or no worse than other Biologist.
Some are open minded and are interested in more theory's while other's will tell you like
It is till you have to drag them to the field by the ear, or drop something on their doorstep
but then you will find that this is an exception.  ::)

Still makes for interesting reading.
Thanks

Offline onecoyote

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2006, 05:19:05 AM »
My story of coyotes swimming across the Mississippi is BS , but you'd be suprised how many people would believe it. Kinda proves how stories get started huh.
Nobody really knows for sure how coyotes got to the east, the northern idea sounds better then most, as does cross breeding with wolves and that's probably what really happend. But again, who can prove it.
I've even heard stories of the USF&W planting coyotes east of the Mississippi to control the deer population same with Mt lions, Could this be true? Who knows for sure, maybe I'm right, they did swim the Mississippi lol.
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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2006, 05:05:25 AM »
Glanceblamm, The flood I remember was quite a bit further back than 10 years --I was in Okla 10 years ago.  Regarding the big flood I remember (don't forget the Miss floods every years and its usually "business as usual"), it was said you could travel 100 miles into Ark by boat.  I went up on bluff overlooking the Miss and all you could see on the Ark side was water.  As far as you could see. 

Offline coyote trapper1928

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2006, 03:59:54 PM »
The Eastern Coyote is up to 80 to 85 % PURE WOLF!! DNA testing proved it!
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Offline onecoyote

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2006, 05:01:50 PM »
I don't think all the coyotes are 85% wolf, some of them look like real coyotes don't you think?
 Buy the way, all coyotes have wolf DNA in them as do all dogs. I could be wrong but I don't think so. Oh well, if I'm wrong it won't be the first time ;) ;D
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2006, 07:22:22 PM »
From every thing I have seen cold weather makes big Coyotes and hot weather makes small ones. Take a look at Arizona and Montana Yotes and see what you have, go up to Canada and they are even bigger.  Larry
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Offline kyote

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2006, 03:05:44 PM »
trotterlg
                   I agree with you northern animals are larger.bear white tail deer ect.I have friend in canada that e-mails me photos of thier kill of filthy coyotes and they are a lot larger then the ones I be shootin in the s west.
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Offline X-man

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2006, 08:12:08 PM »
...uh guys, the US isn't an island...believe it or not, Canada has coyotes...lots of 'em...what we don't have is the Mississippi River. ;) Coyotes are free to travel as far east, west or even south as they please! Coyotes are perhaps the most adaptable mamal on the planet and they really don't respect borders! In the last 100 years, they have colonized every part of North America, including my home province of Newfoundland...which actually is an island!  ;D(3 'yotes crossed over the Cabot Strait from Nova Scotia on the pack ice in 1986, followed by several additional animals in later years) In the last 20 years Newfoundland has gone from being totally coyote free to having an active hunting season for them. Rough population estimates puts them in the tens of thousands!

And yes, the Eastern Coyote is a monster compared to the Western Coyote. As an earlier poster mentioned, DNA testing has proven that our Eastern Coyote has a great deal of Gray or Timber Wolf in them, along with a little domestic dog. Here in Newfoundland they have come to fill the ecological niche left vacant by the now extinct Newfoundland Wolf. They regularly hunt in packs  and are quite successful in bringing down adult Caribou and even Moose! Calf mortality rates for some hunting areas have really hurt those local Caribou/Moose populations, so much so that our Dept. of Wildlife has had to reduce the number of hunting licences issued for those areas, especially in central Newfoundland. At the same time, they've actively been trying to recruit coyote hunters into the sport over the past couple of years following the inauguration or an actual coyote hunting season.

To give you some idea of the size of our coyotes. I've taken 'yotes as heavy as 56lbs, with 40-45lbs being average. I've seen pictures and spoken with hunters/trappers who have taken larger.
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Offline The Sodbuster

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2006, 04:13:11 AM »
I'm very skeptical of gray wolf blood in coyotes.  Wolves and coyotes get along about as well as cats and dogs.  Where their ranges overlap wolves are much more likely to kill coyotes than to breed with them.  I do know coyotes will interbreed with red wolves; but, red wolves are so rare that this is insignificant. 

However, in his book Mammals of Illinois, a U of I professor observed that 11% of coyote specimens he studies were coydogs (coyote-dog hybrids).  This determination was based on bone & skull measurements and not DNA testing.  I've also hear statements that all eastern coyotes have some dog blood in them.  Don't know how true this is.

Don't put too much stock in the Mississippi as a barrier to wildlife.  Coyotes can swim and also walk across bridges.  Here in central MO, if armadillos can make it across the Missouri River, coyotes can get across the Mississippi.

Other posters are correct about northern coyotes being larger than southern 'yotes.  In general, within a given species, the further north you go, the larger the individuals of that species.  This applies to deer, raccoons, bear, beaver, etc. as well as coyotes.

Coyotes may be filling a niche left vacant by extirpated wolves, but wolves are gradually reclaiming that niche.  In the midwest, wolves used to be restricted to northern Minnesota and Isle Royale, MI.  The've expanded their range in Minnesota and are found across parts of Michigan and Wisconsin too.  Dispersing males have been found in western Illinois and northern Missouri in the last 5 years.  I believe there was also a roadkilled wolf in Lake County, Illinois, north of Chicago a few years ago.  They're not the shy, wilderness creatures we were led to believe, but can get along quite well near humans in highly modified landscapes.  As this occurs, I think it more likely wolves will try to kill coyotes rather than breed with them.  But 'yotes are survivors.  If they can survive bounties, shooting and poisoning campaigns, they can persist sympatric with wolves, albeit at reduced densities.

Offline onecoyote

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Re: eastern coyotes larger then western?
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2006, 08:12:49 AM »
Red Wolf 40-70 lbs, this southern Wolf varies in color from reddish gray to nearly black. Small individuals in light color phase are difficult to distinguish from a coyote.
Red Wolves originally occurred from east Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi and? Several years ago Red Wolves were transplanted into North Carolina. They have found coyotes with Red Wolf DNA in recent years, that alone could explane many unanswered questions about large coyotes and black coyotes.
Coydogs are half domestic and would not always look like a 100% coyote, on the other hand a Red Wolf would. It is true a Gray Wolf would probably eat a coyote.
Is it impossible that a female wolf comes in heat and a male coyote would mate with her or vice-versa? Coyotes well mate with any female domestic dog, why not a wolf?
Sodbuster, I believe we have alot to learn about the coyote, Red Wolf and the Gray Wolf. The internet is a great place to talk about it and a great place to learn, thanks for your info. ;)
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