Civil War Ballard (Spencer 56-50)??

[Dai.S.Loe]

OK here I am asking questions again.

I have, this weekend, been to see the owner of an original Ballard carbine in 56-50 caliber.

I didnt know much about the rifle before going other than it was a Ballard. I was interested in purchasong it to do up to use in  long range competition shooting.

After viewing the rifle and talkng to the current owner (in his 70's) I was offered the rifle for US$620.

It needs restoring. It needs lots of TLC. It needs to be shot again. What a wonderful rifle.

The old man explained to me that his grandfather purchased the rifle from an American who came to New Zealand in 1866-67.

When he bought it the American took it out of his trunk where it was stored with his military uniform. Aparrently this member of your country had had enough of war and came to NZ and set himself up in business as a SHOEMAKER.

The old man I spoke to today told me that his grandfather had pased the rifle on to him when he was a very young boy.

The woodwork shows its age, all battered and worn. The action has a light rust all over but the action stil opens and the manual extractor is still working fine,

The barrel has lost all blueing and has patches of pitting, its bore is dirty but I can definitely see rifling down there. Needs a damm good clean.

There is a written family history with the rifle including the name of the American who brought it to this country. The current owner will dig it out for me.

I have just tonight sold one of my motorbikes to pay for the rifle. I am enmaoured of it and its history.

Now for my reason for posting in this group.

It is chambered for the Spencer caliber 56-50. If I can restore this rifle I would love to shoot it but know absolutely nothing about the caliber. Where can I get brass?

Where can I get moulds for this calibers projectiles? What sort of loading in BP should I be able to use? How accurate is this caliber and to what range?

I told you I am a complete novice. To this caliber not to shooting or BP, so all you Spencer shooters help me with your advice. Tell me about the 56-50 round.

I have been talking to a machinist today and he thinks he will be able to take the original and use it as a template with which to mill a new receiver for me. He wll do it for cost of the material as he is as intrigued bymyself with it. I will try and input the dimensions into CAD to see how it will go there. Do I sound excited. I should.

Dai

[jeff]

Perhaps you might find this helpful and interesting...

http://www.buffaloarms.com/search.htm?step=2&viewfrom=1&numresults=10&searchterm=56-50

jeff

[zipperzap]

Wow! How exciting!

Had I read your post a year or so ago, I would have yawned a big one and moved on!

No more!

We bought a repro because we like CW and other historical lever guns and because I
got my hands on one at the local range for a few minutes one day!

The Spencer absolutely blew my doors off for accuracy and fun shooting!

The downside - and there is always a downside - is the cost of factory ammo. You don't even want to know what it is in smokeless! As a BP shooter you are going to be immune to that!

... but, we reload ... and reload we have! We buy our components at Midway.

Two other things I noticed right away was that it leaves mighty big holes in the paper AND everybody (worth his salt) wants to be your range buddy - they actually fall all over themselves to be nice and friendly - so they can get to try yours out! The Civil War mystique plus the 'strange' and unusual caliber makes it  a pretty unique shooter! ... and shoot it they want! (as Yoda would say!)

Your project sounds fascinating! Your results should be more than rewarding!

I'd like to hear how it comes out.!

[marlinman93]

Wow! How exciting!

Had I read your post a year or so ago, I would have yawned a big one and moved on!

No more!

We bought a repro because we like CW and other historical lever guns and because I
got my hands on one at the local range for a few minutes one day!

The Spencer absolutely blew my doors off for accuracy and fun shooting!

The downside - and there is always a downside - is the cost of factory ammo. You don't even want to know what it is in smokeless! As a BP shooter you are going to be immune to that!

... but, we reload ... and reload we have! We buy our components at Midway.

Two other things I noticed right away was that it leaves mighty big holes in the paper AND everybody (worth his salt) wants to be your range buddy - they actually fall all over themselves to be nice and friendly - so they can get to try yours out! The Civil War mystique plus the 'strange' and unusual caliber makes it  a pretty unique shooter! ... and shoot it they want! (as Yoda would say!)

Your project sounds fascinating! Your results should be more than rewarding!

I'd like to hear how it comes out.!

zipperzap,
 This is a Ballard that the poster is refering to, not a Spencer. It may be chambered in the Spencer cartridge, but thwey are different guns completely.

[marlinman93]

Dai S Loe,
 Replied to your post at ASSRA site, and here is a copy:

 "Might be a Dwight Chapin, Ball and Williams, or a R. Ball, but not a Merrimack if it was brought to NZ in 1866-67 time, as Merrimack didn't start until 1867 as a Ballard maker.
 I don't know whether to be concerned or excited about the Spencer caliber? I have never heard of, or seen a Ballard chambered for that caliber, and it's either rebored, very rare, or not that caliber. There was a .54 Ballrd cartridge, which was really a .52 Sharps & Hankins. The vast majority of these era Ballards were .46, .44, or .38 rimfires. 
 John Dutcher tells of one that was used by Winchester Repeating Arms Co. that was marked ".56-56", (.56-56 Spencer) but was only made for testing their ammo, and never left the factory.
 Look forward to hearing what maker is on your gun's barrel. I would strongly agree with Charlie on NOT modifying this gun's originality with restoration or permanent changes. It's seen far too much history to destroy it now with a complete restoration!"

 In addition, all Spencer cartridges were rimfires, so ammo is not available today. Some old guns were converted to centerfire, (and so might your's) and special ammo made to shoot in these guns. Try Buffalo Arms for brass, or closer to you, Bertram brass to see if they make it. First confirm it is that caliber, second that it is ceneterfire.
 Hope this helps,
 Vall

[Dai.S.Loe]

Dai S Loe,
 Replied to your post at ASSRA site, and here is a copy:

 "Might be a Dwight Chapin, Ball and Williams, or a R. Ball, but not a Merrimack if it was brought to NZ in 1866-67 time, as Merrimack didn't start until 1867 as a Ballard maker.
 I don't know whether to be concerned or excited about the Spencer caliber? I have never heard of, or seen a Ballard chambered for that caliber, and it's either rebored, very rare, or not that caliber. There was a .54 Ballrd cartridge, which was really a .52 Sharps & Hankins. The vast majority of these era Ballards were .46, .44, or .38 rimfires. 
 John Dutcher tells of one that was used by Winchester Repeating Arms Co. that was marked ".56-56", (.56-56 Spencer) but was only made for testing their ammo, and never left the factory.
 Look forward to hearing what maker is on your gun's barrel. I would strongly agree with Charlie on NOT modifying this gun's originality with restoration or permanent changes. It's seen far too much history to destroy it now with a complete restoration!"

 In addition, all Spencer cartridges were rimfires, so ammo is not available today. Some old guns were converted to centerfire, (and so might your's) and special ammo made to shoot in these guns. Try Buffalo Arms for brass, or closer to you, Bertram brass to see if they make it. First confirm it is that caliber, second that it is ceneterfire.
 Hope this helps,
 Vall

I am going to definitely confirm the caliber this week. Motorbike sold to raise the cash (spare bike not really needed). Restore back to functionality not back to factory spec. I agee too much history to fool with.

Hope to pick the carbine up this coming Saturday.

Can you tell I am really excited. My motorbikes are my second passion so to sell the one I have been rebuilding takes something special.

If I can get this back to a good enough condition to fire I will enter into the CAS long range shoots here. Long range CAS here is a maximum of 3-400 yards so it would be fun to take on those Italian replicas with an original carbine. Style points at least and a very very big grin on my face.

Dai.

[marlinman93]

 That would be a huge feat to compete in a 300-400 yd. match with a gun chambered in .56-50 Spencer!!!! That's a straight walled cartridge measuring .875" long! About the same velocity as a .22 short, but with a heavier bullet!