Author Topic: more: quill (Read 11506 times)

Victor3 · « **Reply #30 on:** January 18, 2009, 08:24:05 PM »

Quote from: Terry C. on January 18, 2009, 06:01:43 AM

Quote from: Double D on January 18, 2009, 04:00:20 AM
I'm laughing with you not at you...

You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!

I meant to mention in my previous post: I've made up some of the DUCO/acetone mix, but I haven't had a chance to test it yet.

Harhar.... I have a Rodney Dangerfield joke coming to mind

I think you'll like the Duco. By all means, test it out. All you do is dip your finger in the stuff, and with a lighter in your other hand, you........

and7barton · « **Reply #31 on:** January 19, 2009, 01:15:49 AM »

Quote from: Rickk on August 02, 2006, 03:15:28 PM

If you want to be sure you can light the fuse and run far away, make sure that when it sticks out the fuse hole it is bent away from it. If not, the sparks from the fuse could concievably spark down the hole, bypass the fuse, and go off instantly.

I make a point of NEVER RUNNING.
Get to know your fuse.......
Then when you light it, start counting silently.......stroll noncholantly away.
Whistling between your teeth and clicking your fingers is even more impressive.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #32 on:** January 19, 2009, 03:41:33 AM »

There is a thread in the "stickies" concerning making quills from Post-It Notes.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums//index.php/topic,59198.0.html

They have been working really well for me over the past couple of years. One modification that I am currently making is to stick a 3/4" or 1" long piece of fuse in the end of the quill. That will give me about 2 seconds to walk away once it is lit off with a linstock.

Double D · « **Reply #33 on:** January 19, 2009, 07:43:20 AM »

As promised here is the the video of the quill with about 1 1/2 inches of powdered tape exposed. Compare ignition time with the previous tests. I made sure the slow match went under the powdered tape.

Click on picture.

Also notice the smoking hole left in the snow.

Double D · « **Reply #34 on:** January 31, 2009, 11:46:24 AM »

History International Channel has a program on called Pirate Tech. Lots of interesting information about pirates and their weapons in general but especially about Cannon's. The three pounder they fire is a neat little gun. They even use my design of a quill, leaving about an inch of powder impregnated tape exposed to be ignited by the linstock.

dynomike · « **Reply #35 on:** February 01, 2009, 05:15:49 AM »

This might be a dumb question to somebody. When cooking corn starch in the oven is that with water of without?

Double D · « **Reply #36 on:** February 20, 2009, 03:34:18 PM »

Dynomike,

I don't have answer to you question but maybe somebody will see it now and answer.

While waiting the day out for Matt to get the server back up and running I decide to make some quill and document it. I posted this over on Rick Neff's cannon board and now that we are bck on line I am adding it here.

The straws I have are 16 inches long. A piece of straw 4 inches long will go in the vent of my Dictator mortar and reach clear across the chamber and still leave about an inch sticking out of the vent. I have only been able to find 1/2 inch double sided sticky tape. I pulled off about 5 inches of the tape and ran it through a bowl of loose FFFFg powder and coated the tape in powder. Then I cut the tape lengthwise giving me two 1/4 wide by 5 inch long powder tapes

Then I folded double the end of the tape and fed it in the straw.

Here's the results.

Here's a video of how it works

http://www.fototime.com/288B9F31178377D/conv.wmv

You will need to make a linstock to fire these quills. If used in a mortar you may need a shield to stop the flingy debris. Head up if used in a cannon.

Next week I hope to have a report on actual use in the mortar.

Rickk · « **Reply #37 on:** February 21, 2009, 11:01:05 AM »

Cooking Cornstarch to make Dextrin - no water.

Rick

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #38 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:07:09 PM »

Never paid much attention to quills until now, we have a need for a quicker ignition sequence due to increased use of the high plains 90 miles north-east of Denver, Colorado. More mushroom pickers, hikers, bicyclists, etc. are showing up in the middle of nowhere due to lower gas prices. Because any of these recreationists can show up off road in any area, at any time, it behooves the artillerist to shoot immediately after assuring that the area down range is clear. For years and years we used a simple black match for my 1/2 scale 8" 1797 SBR Mortar, just like Rick uses inside his straws. We did not use straws and found that with two inches outside the vent opening, the ignition was very positive and 100% sure for hundreds of shots. It was faster that green cannon fuse, but not nearly as fast as these quills. It probably was too large in diameter to allow the superheated gas to go forward easily and preheat the fuse ahead of the flame.

So we will see what quills are all about in the next few weeks. We will try DD version too. They seem extremely easy to make and we like easy stuff.

One question for you guys familiar with quills; do you have any difficulty knowing when the quill is inside the powder cartridge slightly? Can you feel a connection between the quill and the powder charge?

Thanks for all the good info and nice photos!

Mike and Tracy

Victor3 · « **Reply #39 on:** February 21, 2009, 09:50:59 PM »

Someone I know who's into giant model rockets recently told me it may be illegal to make/possess devices like quills in CA

He says black match is now classified as an explosive here. I'll look into it further, but I may have to stick with other ignition methods.

Start of a simple to make quill I've heard about...

If one were to (where legal) sprinkle powder on the lower glue section and roll up the paper around a stiff wire, it would work well. I understand they go off with a solid whoosh-bang.

I made a paper tube using an UHU glue stick just to see how easily it rolled up and held together. Same could be done with Duco or other cellulouse glue, and some could be smeared on the end and dipped in powder to aid ignition.

Double D · « **Reply #40 on:** February 27, 2009, 05:49:08 PM »

Well, things are slow tonight...

I have 1800 16 inch Artstraws. Each quill I am making is 4 inches long, so I can make 7200 quills from these straws. It takes 6.8 grain of FFFFg to powder each 5 inch piece sticky tape I use. So that means I need 48,960 grains of powder (just under 7 pounds) and 36000 inches of tape (90 400 inch long rolls}

Yep I have entirely to much free time.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #41 on:** March 01, 2009, 01:09:49 AM »

With 7200 quils in a row, would that give you time to step back and take a picture?

Double D · « **Reply #42 on:** March 01, 2009, 06:21:13 AM »

http://www.fototime.com/62D5947FB3F7F02/conv.wmv

We tested the quill yesterday by firing a blank round. After firing there was no exposed burned out quill on the outside of the tube nor was any burned out quill visable in the powder chamber. When I wormed the vent I found the burned out quill was still full length inside the vent. Be sure you worm the vent as part of the cleaning process before loading.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #43 on:** March 02, 2009, 04:27:20 PM »

That's a hard act to follow, Double D! But, while our info and pictures have no comedic content, they can provide an ignition answer for the person with a smaller cannon like the ones Mike and I make or smaller. Sometimes you look at a vent and ask yourself, "Do I really need a vent that big on a cannon this small?" Our vents are .075" in diameter and the 1/16th inch fuse available is tight. Our form of quill is very small in dia. and very fast and easy to light. The photos pretty much tell the story of how we make them. Instead of a straw, we use the tube shape of the vent, itself to preheat the powder ahead of the flame, accelerate the rate of burn. The secret here is to make sure that your powder covered, quill "core piece" is only 2/3rds the diameter of the vent or LESS.

Nano quills are fast! Vents up to two inches long were used during our tests.

Mike and Tracy

We tried some .020" dia stiff spring stock wire during our tests, but the thought of a red hot wire coming down on someone made us turn to broomstraw. One $8.99 broom will provide at least a 20 year supply of the small dia. broomstraws we use.

We cut the straws to 4" which gives us a 3.5" useable, powder covered length. The frame has masking tape facing up which is held down by section dividing strips. Once 10 or 12 straws are pressed down, a covering tape is laid over the ends of each section.

Two passes about 8 or 9 inches away with a photo spray adhesive prepares the first side of a section for the fine, FFFFFg powder.

We wear gloves and safety glasses when we gently press the sticky straws into the 5Fg powder. Repeat process on the other side.

This is what they look like all powdered and ready for the two day air dry. The ends are then snipped off with scissors and the finished quill cores are put in a special Quill Box made from a bandaid container fitted with small dia. mixed drink stirring straws.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #44 on:** March 02, 2009, 09:34:17 PM »

Quote from: Double D on March 01, 2009, 06:21:13 AM

We tested the quill yesterday by firing a blank round. After firing there was no exposed burned out quill on the outside of the tube nor was any burned out quill visable in the powder chamber. before loading.When I wormed the vent I found the burned out quill was still full length inside the vent. Be sure you worm the vent as part of the cleaning process

DD,
Was there any hard melted plastic residue left in the vent from the transparent tape, or was it all consumed in the burning?

Double D · « **Reply #45 on:** March 03, 2009, 02:15:11 AM »

Only the blank round left any debris in the vent. That was the the paper straw. Apparently there wasn't enough back pressure to blow it out. All the quills fired with a round, blew out of the gun. When I look at he quills that blew out that I did not see any plastic residue.

I know 7 shots is not enough to information to draw a conclusion, but based on those seven shots the the paper straws protect the vent from the residue of plastic tape is not a issue.

Double D · « **Reply #46 on:** March 03, 2009, 05:01:55 AM »

Mike and Tracy,

A very good point you bring up when dealing with scale. The attention to detail you strive for in your guns doesn't quite fit in with a vent for a 4mm paper straw quill. Particularly since 4mm is pretty close to full scale vent diameter.

I've not noticed, but are you putting in removeable vents in your guns. You guys don't seem to miss any other details, I can't see you missing that one.

I don't know what demensions your vents might be, but could two vents be an option? A display vent and a firing vent for the straws.

There is a verious serious flaw in your instructions. The flaw is understandable since you are working in your shop. If you tried this at home you would see the error of your ways.

If I were to cut broom straws from the broom here in the house, or were to get caught attempting to cut broomstraws, I would be in extreme danger from the impact of the opposite end of the broom up side my head applied SWMBO...

. Off all the safety regulations the SWMBO rule can be the most serious if violated.

Seriously, I like your idea. "I found" a broom straw, just laying on floor and it has a nice square cut end.

. I tried it in the Parrot and Cairo gun. For those two guns I think I would be better suited opening up the vents for paper straw quills. For the SAMCC gun the broom straw quill would be be a much better option. I think the broom straw would be a far better option if you built that toy gun I sent you plans for.

That's what I like about this board sharing idea's. Thanks guys.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #47 on:** March 03, 2009, 06:59:22 PM »

The real issue here is there any reasonable way to ignite smaller cannon with close to scale vents. It's true, the toy cannon you sent us the plans for would be a good candidate for this small diameter vent ignition method, but so would thousands of others out there like the small brass guns and small steel tubes we see being made quite frequently. If some owners of smaller cannon would cover their vents with a piece of tape with a 1/16" hole in it, or maybe a 3/32" hole, Mike and I are quite certain that the "closer-to-scale" appearance would pleasantly surprise them. An added benefit of a small vent which we take very seriously is the increased retention of pressure per any given quantity of powder.

We have considered interchangeable vents, but we work very carefully to get a copper vent piece which does not leak any gas and if you screw these in and out a few times, they will start to leak. Also this switching vent pieces won't work for the vast majority of small vents which are simply drilled holes in the brass or steel of the tube. We do all the broom straw cutting at Mike's house where our shop is located. As he is not currently married he can pretty much clean carburator parts or cut broomstraw on the kitchen table without offending anyone. Mike's friend Bruce had 80 pounds of suspension parts for his '48 Willey's that he is rebuilding on that table and no one was offended, not even Gary, AKA RocklockI, and he offends real easy! So, everyone's situation is a little different and as for the SWMBO rule, I think I violated that one in my own driveway back in '89 when I set off a whole lunch bag of old gunpowder one 4th of July. I never heard this end of that one! My assertion that it was a mere swoosh, not a bang, didn't help at all. I was smart enough to get up at the crack of dawn the next day to scrub that huge black mark off the drive.

I might just build that cannon I now have plans for, thank you, but it's going to have to wait awhile as I have way too much on my plate right now.

Thanks for sharing your ideas!

Tracy and Mike

1Southpaw · « **Reply #48 on:** March 03, 2009, 07:50:42 PM »

Took a trip to Gt.Falls Mt. To day
Friend in Hospital with blood clots .
Had a few minutes to spare so went in to Scheels sporting goods to look for some BP .
They had Pirodex (sp) but no Black Powder . Asked a sales person on the floor about it , their reply was
" not allowed for sale in city limits!"
What is this country coming to ? Of Course Gt. Falls is an Air Force town .
A fellow in the isle said they had it in stores in Havre, Guess a visit to the sister is in order ......

Question : How long can you store BP in dry ,low himidity , cool temps ? got an old can from the 50's around here some where . Used to be $2 a can for us kids @ local sports shop. we used to make some good bangs.

GGaskill · « **Reply #49 on:** March 03, 2009, 08:04:25 PM »

If stored away from moisture, black powder will last a very long time. There are some who believe it actually gets better with age because of molecular level migration of the components to an even more intimate state than as manufactured. It does not break down from heat exposure the way smokeless powders do.

paulj84003 · « **Reply #50 on:** March 04, 2009, 03:52:42 AM »

I had the ocassion to unload two Colt Navys in 1965 that had been loaded with black powder somewhere arround 1885. They were found in a tunnel under China Alley in Fresno. (China Town) The powder had turned grey green and was more powder than granulated. Not having time to try it out at the time I left it in a penutbutter jar lid, in the windowsill of my shop. Several months later while belt grinding a rifle barrel to conture a spark hit the powder and set it off with a big woosh sending burning powder all over setting several small fires. It was quite potent. Paul

Double D · « **Reply #51 on:** March 04, 2009, 04:14:18 AM »

Southpaw Powder inc will sell you powder in 5 pound lots. When you go to there website and see the price and realize it's the same as smokeless, think again. The priced you see includes shipping and hazmat fee.

RocklockI · « **Reply #52 on:** March 05, 2009, 02:05:52 PM »

Well ,I can vouch for the "broomstick quill" that Mike and Tracy have come up with .

It works very well ! One must be carefull not to shear the powder off while inserting into the vent .

For a larger size vent like my Parrot I'm thinking the DD straw method will be better . I got some of DD's craft straws to play with.

rocklockI

Double D · « **Reply #53 on:** March 05, 2009, 06:17:58 PM »

That's what I was going to do today, buy a broom. I realy think this broomstraw quill has merit for the small guns!!!

RocklockI · « **Reply #54 on:** March 06, 2009, 10:54:02 AM »

I tried DD's double sticky tape and craft straw idea ....!

Yikes thats fast !

I don't think you can beat the straw quill for small guns . They have to be handled very carefully .

The only issue I've had with sticky tape and straw is getting the tape slit without "going to war" with the stuff . But once it's cut and coated and in the straw ,it's durable . Yikes thats fast ....silly things were flying around the backyard like little rockets .It has a pop sound too .

Double D · « **Reply #55 on:** March 06, 2009, 12:23:19 PM »

RocklockI go back an read the instructions again. Coat the tape and then cut it.

This isn't my idea by the way several of the other guys who contribute here presented this idea a long time ago. I just revisited it.

RocklockI · « **Reply #56 on:** March 06, 2009, 01:42:07 PM »

Instructions !!!!

I've tried that too in the last hour or so .

Now I'm having trouble inserting the coated tape into the straw . I'll make a wire hook thingy and pull them thru .

I'm sittin here having a beer ...or so , I've got some ideas in my head .

I think I'll go get some kind of thick twine or string maybe even yarn , then spray it with adhesive and then drag it thru the bowl "O" powder. I 'll hang the stings or yarn with a weight on them .

When it sets up ,snip to length , insert into craft straw . I'm thinking I'll put a very short peice of viso fuse (as noted earlier in the post), to give me a second to move .

cause darn those things are fast !!!!

Double D · « **Reply #57 on:** March 06, 2009, 03:21:45 PM »

If you start you cut slightly off center so one end is wider that the other and do the same thing on the opposite side on the other end you can use the narrow end to start the tape. Also don't work the powder into the tape let it pick the powder up on it's own, then run your finger down the tape to knock the excess powder off.

I tried a darning needle and it didn't work. I found the holding a short section 1/8 inch close to the straw and feeding it in worked best.

I went looking for spray adhesive, thats stuff is expensive. Next time I go to the big city, I going to look for those glue sticks that are for making you own post it notes.

intoodeep · « **Reply #58 on:** March 06, 2009, 03:48:37 PM »

Ok, am I the only one that find this a bit funny?

The Seacoast guys using a broom for quills. Aren't they from Broomfield??

Oh, heck never mind. It's Friday....

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #59 on:** March 06, 2009, 05:59:01 PM »

When I moved to Broomfield in '77, I don't remember any fields of broomstraw, I guess that was common in the old days around here. But, I'll tell you what, I never saw so many rabbits in my life; they were everywhere, maybe not as bad as Australia in the fifties, but they were all over day and night.

Glad to see you guys experimenting a bit with these various ideas. That's the best way to determine what works for your particular cannon. For nano mortars and cannons, sometimes an even smaller fuse is necessary. About a year ago one of the fireworks places was selling 1.4MM dia. fuse in 4 or 5 inch lengths. We bought some and found it to be OK, but pretty weak compared to all the green fuse types.

Regards,

Tracy and Mike