Muzzleloading in the new era.

[Bear Rider]

Saying "get closer" does not apply to a deer standing 200yd from anything in the middle of a flat, open dirt field without cover for a mouse.

It sounds as though you need to work on your stalking skills.

[quickdtoo]

It sounds as though you need to work on your stalking skills.

[manofthe45]

When before I die and I have no guns because the Gov. has taken them and my grandchildren have never hunted in the woods because the anti's have won I know who will be to blame.

The archers who fight the crossbows.  The muzzleloaders who fight the in-line.  The hunters who refuse to support the trappers.  AND EVERY ONE THAT DOES NOT GET OUT AND VOTE IN EVERY ELECTION.

I have been reading this from the first post and I have to say "Wake up"  Unless we are united we LOSE.  End of story, final score, No second chance.

I shoot a long bow and recurve when I am still hunting the laurel.  If I am in a stand overlooking a food plot I have my compound.  If my bursistis is so flared up in my shoulder I can't move my arm I gently grab the crossbow.  Heres the problem many of you say thr longbow and recurve great,  the compound well ok,  you use a crossbow "burn in hell".  I have had hardcore archers tell me if I have to use a crossbow I shouldn't hunt.  Well thank god at least my doctor and the pa game commission don't agree with these threats to my heritage. 

Threats to my Heritage. YES.  Again we are either united or WE LOSE.

I shoot a flintlock, cap-lock, and God forbid that (*&^*&) inline.  And guess what I shoot all three in Muzzleloader season.  In flintlock season Guess what I shoot a flintlock only, but this is only again because of stuck in the mud bigots who would rather battle other hunters than protect our heritage.  Of couse here again we have to battle the archers because god forbid we intrude on their time.  If you want to call yourselves traditionlists send me a picture of you your deer and your MATCHLOCK.

At a local hunting expo at a speak out forum someone asked why no help was ever given to trappers by the other local groups.  He was actually told to sit down and shut up because trapping was out of date and not needed in todays world.  Excuse me but isn't that what Peta says about hunting.

This is all a mute point though unless we all get out in Nov to vote.  Loacl attempts meaning state wide to stop hunting and take our guns are annoying, but it will be on a national level that decides if we maintain our right to bear arms or if we will be left with only slingshots and butter knives to defend ourselves.

I personally will support any manner of hunting, any new season to hunt, and even those hunters who threaten my way of life.

It is not the hunter on tv saying that he just took his first muzzleloader deer carry the newest slick in-line that makes me ill.  It is the constant infighting and bickering between those that should be helping each other That Makes Me Want To Vomit!!!!!!

That was and will always be my two cents on the matter.  It will also be my last time reading this post as many of you are a constant, dangerous, and imminant threat to the saftey of the hunting heritage I hope to pass on to my children and my childrens children.

[captchee]

 oHHH bla bla bla

 you know it never stops amazing me  how this topic ends up with some modern shooter  saying , if we don’t stick together we lose . if you don’t allow “me , us “ use my gun when I want  in any season I want , your anti gun . Because you want to hold on to a set of specific laws governing a specific hunt you’re a stuck in the mud .
 Or  if your traditionalist then dig your own lead , make your own powder , use sticks

 *No one  that I know here or other is wanting to ban your rifle or any other . Only place it where it belongs just as we do with fishing ,  car racing  , other hunting sports  and guess what LIFE
* not one person here have a read or anywhere else is not standing behind the second amendment
* not one person here is anti hunting that I have seen.
*  I think we all can agree that the only way hunting will survive is  if the public see it as
 A)  a necessity 
 B) a  sport that contains a challenge for the individual partaking in it
 If they ever get the idea that hunting is  soul about “somes” joy of killing   and need to just take one more  animal  , its done

 What has gotten us where we are today is the publics perception of hunting  and their idea of the ethics of hunting  be that true or other .

 You want this sport to survive another 50 to 100 years  “which IMO it will not “ the you better start supporting the different disciplines of hunting  and that means their clear and concise  divisions and distinctions . Other wise once that all mighty general population discovers that  a season like muzzle loader isn’t about the  picture they have in their heads . That the rifles  becoming commonly used are  basically common center fire rifles  minus a notch or two to get then around the FFA , we are done .

 No longer are we a large  majority of the population . Keep in mind when  those that are the majority  take aim , there isn’t enough trees to stand behind .

 Once again remember hunting is not  a right  for most of you . it’s a privilege. A privilege that can be taken at any time   from the general population .
 As to a match lock ?  Fine  I could agree with that .   If you want to toe a hard line then lets toe it but remember there was less the 5,000 of you folks in this country at the time of its use .
So basically any person not  of a card carrying American Indian nation would have to  put in for a nation wide lottery to hunt .
  We would of course only use bows , spears , blow guns of course but then you would only be able to hunt on the east coast  pretty much .
 So you see if you want to go back to far , you cant hunt at all can ya !LMAO
 dont give me  your suposed traditional  reasoning  for you will not like the out come



folks need  wake up and look around . the old days of hunting are gone , things have changed . strap that deer across your hood and you libel to get a ticket . take only the choice cuts and  get caught  its going to cost ya ..  Take a second and look back , the whole being for hunting has change   without most even noticing it .
 The only way hunting is going to survive is  as I said
1) game management : which can also mean very controlled about who hunts and when
2)  sport : and that means challenge  and family traditions . Need I say this is also the  one with the weakest footing in today’s world.

So continue not supporting those who wish to  keep a defined reason in at least a small section of that sport  . Continue demanding acceptance  of  your views of hunt anywhere any time with what ever you like .
 For each time the public gets a little more eye full and once they catch on the only thing left will be management .
  My children and grand children will still be hunting ,,, will yours ?

 I think one needs to step back and take a long hard look
 

[Bear Rider]

Quickdtoo,

I was taught to hunt by a man who kept his family in food and some cash during the depression by his skill as a hunter. His idea of sportsmanship was to stick the muzzle in the animal's ear and pull the trigger. He took very few shots over 100 yards in his 70+ years of hunting.

I long ago lost count of the number of times that I have WALKED to within 50 FEET of deer in a pasture. Deer are not all that hard to stalk. The problem with most of our current crop of so called "hunters" is that generally they haven't a clue, and even if they did, they lack the patience required.

[sharps4590]

Bear Rider hit on what is truly the crux of the matter.  Andy is about killing deer, not hunting.  His statement about anyone not being able to kill a deer within 40 yards is out of touch with reality in many areas.  Where I live and where I used to live it is entirely possible to not be able to see a deer, or an elk, within 20 yards.  And if you can see a patch of brown, what part of the animal is that patch of brown?   40 yards can be a long shot.  No, I don't live in an eastern corn belt state where rifles aren't allowed and driving thru is boring.

I can appreciate Andy's thinning the deer herd in his area.  I've done the same for row croppers as regards beaver.  Yes, I trap and love it.  The truth of that matter is that even tho both animals can do a lot of damage no one is going to lose the farm because of them.  Grasshoppers and locusts can do a lot more damage than either.  I spent 40 of my 53 years on the farm so I'm not just blowing smoke.

So many deer shooters today are just that, whether it be with a compound, crossbow or inline.  It's all about "getting a deer".  I believe a lot of captchee's point is that for so many it isn't about the hunt, the outdoors, learning, experienceing or getting better at getting close.  It's simply about killing another deer.  Well...that ain't huntin', it's killin'.  It isn't about experiencing the way our forefathers hunted or keeping an old skill alive, whether that be stalking close in a dry woods or using a firearm all too many consider obsolete.....(and Andy, traditionalists have been attacked, and repeatedly, on web sites and in publications.  You need to expand your information base.)  I wonder how many can name more than two or three different trees or correctly identify the underbrush and whether or not deer find it palatable.  What about telling the difference between the call of a Barred Owl and a Great Horned Owl?   What do the different sounds a squirrel makes mean?  Can they identify the call of a summer tanager or even recognize the bird?  Then there's the good ol' Banded Kingfisher.....what can that bird tell you?  Which acorns can you eat and which are desireable?  Which ones less so and why?  Mushrooms?....know which ones are edible in your area and when and where they're likely to be found?  You see what I mean?  Our forefathers knew all those things and more.....and my experience strongly indicates that those who choose the most modern weapons, those with more gadgets and gizmo's than a James Bond Aston-Martin, don't know 1/10 of 1% of what goes on in the wilds.  They can kill a deer as long as there are inflated game numbers.....but don't insult the name "hunter" by calling them hunters.  So much for the heritage someone wanted to pass on.....it's evidently a heritage of just killin' deer....no matter the means or the experience. 

Andy, come on down here in the Ozarks and go huntin' instead of sittin' in a tree to kill deer.  Learning how to stalk a bedded deer in freshly fallen, dead, dry leaves might be a good thing for you.

For the poster who wanted to back up to the matchlock......well, you ain't goin' far enough back to make a point....that dog won't hunt.

Now, having held forth and attacked just about everyone who's posted on this thread, I don't care what you hunt with as long as it's legal.  I have my rules on my property and they are unalterable.  If it's legal where you are, more power to you and enjoy yourself.  But don't tell me a person who is just about killing another deer with whatever happens to be legal at the time is a hunter.  Just ain't so.

Vic