Knife Fighting

[covertcowboy]

I originally posted this under self defence and concealed carry handguns and i realized this was a more appropriate place for it


What do y'all know (or not know) about nuetralizing the threat from a knife quickly, quietly, and effectivly? techniques?

what im looking for are ways to learn, instead of having to learn as i fight. cause even tho life sucks at times i'm not done with it yet.


p.s
ive already heard a gun is better, and avoiding a fight is better than that. so please don't tell me to get a gun. i'm 15. if i shoot somebody with a gun I'm carrying, I get screwed over in court BIG TIME.

[nabob]

As for defense, be realistic. If someone sneaks up on you with a knife, you are dead. No gun is going to save you. If you see the knife ahead of time, run. Why be a hero?

Assuming you are cornered, is this a mugging? If so, hand over your wallet. Can't spend money if you dead.

If the person is not after your money but is after you, the techniques are not easily describable in a forum such as this. I'd suggest a book that covers practical self-defense such as Attack Proof by John Perkins. In it, you'll learn that no technique exists in a vacuum. You need to think about balance, conditioning, situational awareness to AVOID problems, speed, having a game plan ahead of time that you've practiced, etc.

Many of the martial arts include techniques against various types of weapons. My experience with what are considered "martial arts" is that you need to consider very carefully just what your goal is. Realize that to become proficient in any one technique, to the point where you can defend yourself against weapons as opposed to just larger human being will take years. I don't say that to discourage you - that's just my experience. Also, consider that many of the martial arts are more oriented towards sport techniques than fighting to save your own life. They focus on scoring points and outlaw many of their own most effective techniques in an effort to stay safe. Nothing wrong with that. No one wants to come home from the dojo maimed. Some of their most spectacular techniques, though, are in my opinion not very useful in a street fight. For example, kicking above your head is emphasized in some schools. Doing that in a street fight is not as effective as taking out a knee joint, which involves kicking well below your head. This isn't to denigrate any martial art. It is just my opinion, that's all.

That's why I recommend a self-defense book rather than a true martial art. Put the opponent down hard and run like hell. The good thing about self-defense techniques is that it doesn't take years to learn them.

[Haywire Haywood]

It won't score you any macho points, but a swift kick in the ol nad sack will afford you ample time to get away from any one on one situation that doesn't involve a firearm.  It even works on girls, altho not as well.   Be aware that nobody gets away from a fight unscathed unless you outmatch your attacker by a pretty good amount.

Ian

[30-30man]

Yeah kid, take it from the rest of us.  Your better off running.  It is the oldest defense known.  I've lived about three of your lifetimes and I'll tell you; if you go looking for a fight, you'll find one.  Often one that you can't win. There is always someone bigger. Hang out in bad places and you will find yourself in these situations.  Pick good friends, hang out in respectable places, and you'll live a long time.  Some of the best friends I have met are at church and the women don't look bad either.  You'll find that the only ones you need to fight are the females.  They love a man who goes to church.

[victorcharlie]

Covert cowboy.......I sense you have trouble brewing.........maybe if you clue us in on the situation we might be able to give better advice.

15 is a tough age.......and there are things that can follow you the rest of your life.........

[covertcowboy]

nabob-
if i know they are coming for me ahead of time, i will make it a point to disapear...  quickly
cause like i said in the other one, "...lots of heros are dead."


Ian-
right on all accounts (especially when you wear boots most of the time)


30-30 man-
RE:
Yeah kid, take it from the rest of us.  Your better off running.  It is the oldest defense known.  I've lived about three of your lifetimes and I'll tell you; if you go looking for a fight, you'll find one.  Often one that you can't win. There is always someone bigger.
-yeah there is always someone out there (usually bigger and meaner) that is having a bad day/week/year/ect. and would love for me to give them an excuse to rearrange my bones.

RE:
Hang out in bad places and you will find yourself in these situations.  Pick good friends, hang out in respectable places, and you'll live a long time.  Some of the best friends I have met are at church
-trust me, i do my best to not let trouble find me but i know i'll slip up atleast once more in my life... probly more

RE:
and the women don't look bad either.  You'll find that the only ones you need to fight are the females.  They love a man who goes to church.
-they sure do. plus I live in Florida    so most of the females over 15 look VERY nice ALL the time. But the ladies out at the barn i work @ are usually 15-17, hottttttttttt, rich$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, and tend to be decent people. so in short i have it made
( looking like you're 17 when you're 15 is a wonderful thing!)

[nomosendero]

Now I know why you asked the question! 

I look 50, but I am 53,  someday you will want the age thing working the other way. 

I had a few scrapes, I am not bragging at all because as I got older I realize how some of those could have been prevented & as some have correctly said, your match and more is out there.

Good advise has already been given & fleeing is a wise consideration & for dang sure if a knife is involved. I also wonder why you are asking, if you think that someone or a gang has a grudge against you, keep your eyes open & don't allow yourself to be boxed in somewhere. Concerning the knife, most underestimate this weapon & defending against it is to be avoided, period!! If you are not aware of the 21' rule, here it is: For
example with a police officer with a holstered gun, if he encounters someone with a knife in his hand, the officer needs 21' space between him and the attacker, if not and this opponent is a physical person, the officer will get cut before he can draw his handgun. So, if you are carring a handgun concealed, forget it. Try this with a friend & you will see what I mean, this 21' rule is taught to many Law enforcement & tactical folks, you don't need an actual knife & a gun of course, but try this & you will see what I mean.

If you anticipate a problem, seek an adult you trust & respect & sort this out, please!!

[dukkillr]

That you're asking this question is more of a concern than the actual answer.  Normal 15 year old kids should not be worried about getting stabbed.  What's the rest of the story?

[powderman]

Lots of good advice here son. Nothing macho about getting cut, stabbed, or killed. Best thing is to avoid those situations. POWDERMAN. 

[WmRoy]

What's better than being 15 & looking 17?......How about, living to be 17..... intact and not facing prision time.................

Listen to the 'wise' old men here, and tell us what is going on that makes you ask such a question.

I know a few folks who have been in knife fights and nobody wins in a knife or gun fight.  Several of my high school friends have spent most of their lives in prision........ it's not a fun place!  I know one guy who killed a guy in a knife fight (claimed it was self defense) he's been in prision for what, 35 or so years now............. do you suppose he wishes he wouldn't have been so macho and just ran like the dickens........... you better believe he wishes he would have run...... The guy that washes the windows for me at my business killed a guy when he was 15 (beat the guy to death) the guy (who was older) was picking on him, he got to spend the rest of his teen age years and his early twenties in prision and still suffers from the experience of prision and the guilt of taking a human life.  Not to mention that he can't own a GUN and that many folks won't hire him once they find out he is an ex-felon.

Tell us what's up, before something that screws up your life happens..............

God Bless,
WmRoy

[covertcowboy]

what's up?

parents have problems, i side with mom, dad isn't "ok". don't think there will be a real problem with him tho... i have also pissed off a few dealers and thier "gangs" and when they go in for round two they tend to play rough (guns, knives, metal ball-bats)

so if push ever comes to shove and i can't get away (i sincerly hope it doesn't) i want to be able to shove back. and make a lasting impression

trust me i don't run with the gangs, and i ain't in THE trade, and i hope i never have to take a human life. EVER

[WmRoy]

Okay, what is the deal with the 'gangs'............. how is it that you had a run in with such types??

As far as for your Dad, are your parents together?  Either way, if there is abuse there your Mom should be getting a restraining order against him...........

We'll all pray that your situation improves.  But maybe you need to just remove yourself from the environment......... do you have any grandparents or aunts or uncles you can contact about moving in with???  I wouldn't suggest just 'running away' but hopefully you have some caring grandparents that are still alive and healthy...........

God Bless,
WmRoy

[covertcowboy]

i beat the crap out of a guy that tried to steal my bike and he has friends...
but even before that i was careful to pay attention to my surroundings (reading eyes, keeping tabs on cars that drive by slowly, how close people get, ways out of confined spaces, ect, ect, ect,)

yeah my parents are together, hopefully my "dad" will get a job and move to wherever it is. then my mom can start the legal process from a safe distance while he has a documentable income (ie alimony, child support). After she files he will have a R.O. (hope so atleast)

The nearest blood i have is a cousin in Orlando and that wouldn't work foreither of us. and i never knew my grandparents real well even when they were alive. don't really know any of my relatives. besides i don't cut and run when it gets harder. and my mom will need help, and i owe her big time. (she could have just dumped us on the state and left, but she didn't)

i've got a little brother too (12 years old)...

[30-30man]

My heart goes out to you young man.  I use to see this all time in my old line of work.  I use to be a special education teacher and I saw all the damage that crappy home situations caused young people.   They were so screwed up in school because their home situations were so messed up.  You hang in there, sometimes God takes His time revealing what He has in store for us.  I don't mean to preach to you man but in tough times that is all we have.  Your responses make me think you're a fellow believer.  If you are, then you are my brother.  I will pray for you young man.

[WmRoy]

I will continue to pray for your family.  Has your family attended any local churches?  If not are there any near your home?  At this point I wouldn't be too worried about the denomination, whether it be Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist or Catholic they should have/be able to offer you some assistance.  If nothing else the Pastor would be willing to hear your story.

God Bless,
WmRoy

[covertcowboy]

my Mom is involved in a local non-denomination (sp?) church
my dad goes but im pretty sure its for the wrong reasons.
the church has a thing called "celebrate recovery" for porn and sex addicts (dad), cheated spouses (Mom), and single folks who know somethin is wrong with thier day-to-day "routine"

i usually go with them on sunday mornings,
and i go to a differnt church wensday nights for a youth group, i've got two families from there that will let me come over any time i need to cool off for a while


thanx for all the prayers.
 just remember:
"...some of God's greatest gifts, are unanswered prayers..."
-Garth Brooks

[victorcharlie]

Covert Cowboy........Mom and Dad are people.....they make mistakes......and from what you say (that they're in church) means they're looking for a way to turn there lives around.

What ever reason they're in church is there own.  You, as there son, can work to drive a wedge between them, or you can work to bring them back togather.  If your in church then I think you know what god wants.

In your life you will face many trials and tribulations.......don't be concerned about things of this world as they just won't last.  Focus on pleasing god.....focus on improving your relationship with your mother and father (remember the commandment to honor your father and your mother?)  Forgive those who wrong you if you expect to be forgiven.........work to improve your family not tear it apart.

I've never dealt with a gang.......have no experience with them......so I would hope some of the other fellows can give you sound advice on how to handle that one.......and it's sure a tough one to have.....

Hang in there and try to do what's just, right and good.......VC....

[covertcowboy]

vc-

RE:
Covert Cowboy........Mom and Dad are people.....they make mistakes......and from what you say (that they're in church) means they're looking for a way to turn there lives around.

What ever reason they're in church is there own.  You, as there son, can work to drive a wedge between them, or you can work to bring them back togather.  If your in church then I think you know what god wants.

- none of this is my Mom's fault. my dad is the one that committed adultery AND went to those chat rooms and websites. my mom spent a YEAR trying to make it work.... a WHOLE YEAR!
meanwhile he has lied to us NUMEROUS times (not little stuff), lost i think 3 jobs (but OF COURSE it was never his fault ), and was NEVER there for either of his sons.
but what takes away any respect i might have had for him is that he never has the balls to say it was his fault. in that aspect i am a better man at 15, than he is at 50

the bible says adultery and death are the only things that should end marriage, so i guess this one's dead...


RE:
In your life you will face many trials and tribulations.......don't be concerned about things of this world as they just won't last.  Focus on pleasing god.....focus on improving your relationship with your mother and father (remember the commandment to honor your father and your mother?)  Forgive those who wrong you if you expect to be forgiven.........work to improve your family not tear it apart.

"thou shalt not commit adultery."

i forgave him the first time and then he turned around and did the same thing over again... i won't forgive someone that won't change thier behavior or take responsibility for what they did


atleast i can look at his life and know not to do with mine...

[victorcharlie]

Adultry and death.......I think you need to look again

1 Corinthians 7:10

10. And unto the married I command, not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11  But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled toher husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. 12  But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 13  And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14  For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Either way, while you don't like the sin, god wants us to love the sinner.  All men are sinners. 

Your mother and fathers relationship is their own business, not yours.

A house divided soon falls.  If you want the house to fall then continue to be bitter, but understand that the devil is the one who lies, cheats and confuses and works to destroy people and families.  This bitterness is not inspired by god but of the devil.

Work for your own salvation.  Lift up your spirit by searching your own heart.  Cast out those thoughts that are not inspired by the light.  Love those things which are good and inspired by god .

You wake up in the morning you choose to be happy or sad.........it's up to you brother.....it's your life......but the wrong choice leads to destruction.

[WmRoy]

Victorcharlie's advice is very good and you will do well to consider it carefully,

The fact that your Mom and Dad are going to Church means they are trying and therefore deserve your support.  The path you end up walking in this life is completely of your own choosing.  You can either walk in hate and resentment or in forgiveness and love................... one brings you down the other lifts you up..............

God Bless and we'll keep praying for you!
WmRoy

ps: if your Church has a lending library see if they have the "Purpose Driven Life".  If not I'm sure you can find it at the regular library or talk to your Pastor or Youth Group Leader, I'm sure they can help you get your hands on a copy.

[flintman]

 Lordy,so much good advice here already,and i don't think anyone can do better than say "just lean on the LORD" ,which has already been said here by others.
 The replies here not only help you,but me as well,to think of how my children(ages 14 & 12) look at me.
 I hope things go well for you and yours.
 Jeff.

[covertcowboy]

exodus 20:14
"Do not commit adulterty."

matthew19:8-9
and Jesus replied,"Moses permited divorce as a concession to your hard-hearted wickedness, but it was not what God had originally intended.         And I tell you this,a man who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery-  unless his wife has been unfaithfull."

(new living translation)


the ten commandments are for both men and women, why would these words be any different?
and all sin is equal, one or a million, a lie or a murder. it is enuf to keep you from heaven if you are not forgiven

and in my mind it is not right to look the other way when a person  is mistreated (physically, verbally, or emotionally) or betrayed. you owe it to them to help. cause i know i will have the odds against me one day and i hope someone will be there to help me dig my way out. if i look the other way today, what right do i have tommorow to ask others to help me if i didn't help them?

[WmRoy]

It seems to me that you need to consider what the Bible says about forgiveness.  I taught a Sunday School Class on the topic 2 sundays ago.

Here are a few verses for you to review and pray about.

I'm certainly not asking you to stand by and allow anyone to hurt another individual.  But you need to offer encouragement, support and guidance, perhaps you are more mature than your parents? 

Read these verses and think about them.............. we'll talk later.

God Bless,
WmRoy

Forgiveness of Others

Matthew 6:9-15 (The Lords Prayer)
9  "This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10  your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11  Give us today our daily bread.
12  Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13  And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one'

 14  For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15  But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."


Matthew 18:22-35 (The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant)
21  Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22  Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[f]
23  "Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24  As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25  Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt. 26  "The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27  The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28  "But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded. 29  "His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.' 30  "But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31  When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32  "Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33  Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34  In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. 35  "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."


Mark 11:25-26
25  And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."
26  But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your sins.
(Most manuscripts do not have verse 26)

Luke 6:37
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Luke 11:1-4 (The Lords Prayer)
1 One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, "Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples."
2  He said to them, "When you pray, say:
" 'Father,[a]
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.
3  Give us each day our daily bread.
4  Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.[c]
And lead us not into temptation.[d]' "


Luke 17:3
3  So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. 4If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."


Colossians 3:13
13  Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

[victorcharlie]

Thank you WmRoy for that fine input.

Covert Cowboy, god entered into several covenents with man.  While a covenent is an unbreakable contract, the new covenent is that of sanctification thru grace.  Your eye for an eye view is old law or the law of Moses that people of the day lived under before Christ died, decended into hell, was raised and assended into heaven.  As the covenent is unbreakable, old law still has relavence, but the new law is where you should focus.

King Soloman, the wisest man in the world, was brought down by his lust for foreign women.  When god passed the kingdom to Soloman, Soloman found favor from god by asking for the wisdom to judge his people fairly.  God granted him wisdom but required Soloman to only marry with in his tribe.........300+ wives and 900+ concubines later he fell from grace after having knowledge with several women outside his tribe.

The point being.........

Your dad isn't the first man to commit a sin "of the flesh", and he won't be the last.  You will soon be of the age to fall for the same trap.  You see the despair it brings, and your a victum of the sin as well... but watch out or you will become what you despise or consumed by your fathers sin and thus live in the sin as well.

If you want to move forward and be pleasing in the eyes of god you must find a way to put away the hate, distrust, and bitterness the sin has caused.  It's the devil who is pleased by your hate.

The three greatest things in the world are faith, hope and love.

Have faith in the lord and faith in your father.  Hope his faith is real and he does want to change.  Love is the greatest because "God is Love".  New covent law requires us to love our neighbor as we love ourselved.  As god is love, by loving, we become closer to god.

Just as god is love, then hate is the devil.  Hate on your heart draws you toward that which is dark.

Let he who is without fault cast the first stone........

Hang in there young man.......Soloman says "Oh young man rejoice in thy youth".  Don't let the days of your youth waste away by concerning yourself with things of this world.  Be happy and enjoy your youth because it will soon be gone.

Live each day in the present as living in the past won't allow you to enjoy the present.

Don't live in the future because you know not the time, nor the place and death comes like a thief in the night.

Get up each moring and fill your heart with joy.  Go forward each day with joy on your heart because today might be your last.

Live your life with love in your heart and you will find favor in the eyes of the lord.

[covertcowboy]

lots of stuff to think about here i'll try to disect it later

[covertcowboy]

BIG NEWS Y'ALL

my dad will probaly be in  north carolina by this time next week so i won't have to deal with him at all!

things are getting set in motion...

[WmRoy]

We'll all continue to pray that your situation continues to improve.

God Bless,
WmRoy