Bullet questions

[victorcharlie]

Do the barnes, Hornady or other saboted bullets expand when shooting game at ranges varying from 25 to say 125 yards or even farther?  I'm thinking the velocity is high enough for expansion am I correct?

Also, what about ballistics?  Do the lighter bullets shoot much flatter and increase the distance that you would feel comfortable taking a shot at?

Up to what range would you feel comfortable shooting and with what bullet powder combination etc?

How's the accuracy of your equipment?

I've shot traditional 50 caliber patched round balls, used a few conicals but have no experience with inlines or sabots.....any advice or recommendations appreciated......

VC

[victorcharlie]

Ok....I spent a little time reading previous post and that answered a lot of my questions........I guess I was trying to get the short answer without spending the time to read.......

Anyway......comments and suggestions still appreciated....VC

[simonkenton]

Yes you can get good expansion with saboted bullets.
I am holding in my hand a Hornady 250 xtp, as you may know this is a hollow point. I shot a deer in the chest with this slug at 70 yards. The bullet went through part of the neck, through the right lung, and stopped just under the skin after passing all the way through the lung.
This bullet started at 250 grains, now weighs 182 grains. It is a perfect mushroom, max diameter 1 1/4 inches. It knocked the deer for a backflip, and it was dead right there.
Now, I am shooting a Savage and I am driving this slug at 2,300 fps. Other inlines that don't use smokeless will have a lower mv, and would not get as much mushrooming, but still would get good expansion with this slug.
You have asked a good question. Lots of guys have problems with saboted slugs not expanding, it depends what you shoot, and what speed. I have heard of the Hornady 300 SST not giving good expansion.
If you shoot the 250 XTP from the Savage, I guarantee you good accuracy, good expansion, and good retention of bullet weight.
I zero the 250 XTP dead on at 150 yards. This makes it 2 inches high at 100 yards. At 200 yards, it is about 5 inches low. I get 1 1/4 inch groups with this slug.
I can shoot the 250 SST and get better ballistics, 2 inches high at 100 and I would be 3 inches low at 200. The 250 SST is a proven deer killer, and will give expansion, but I prefer the XTP because it is a little more accurate, and gets a better mushroom, and it is cheap because you can buy it in bulk from Cabelas as a pistol slug.
I also know guys who have taken the high shoulder shot with this load, and gone right through the shoulder and cut the spine, no problem.
I would take a 200 yard shot with my rig, no problem. But, I would have to know the range, since I am 5 inches low at that range, if I know the deer is past 170 I have to elevate the aim point a few inches. I also would need no wind and a good rest. Two hundred yard shots with inlines are common.

[gt2003]

If you are shooting anything less than a magnum load, shoot the all lead, precision rifle dead center bullet.  I'll post a pic of a couple of bullets recovered from deer that I've shot with them.  They expand well and don't require massive amounts of powder for them to work right.  I used to shoot XTP's (300 grains) with 90 grains pyrodex RS.  I lost 3 deer due to poor or no expansion.  I could find blood for maybe 20 yds, then nothing.  I swore if I lost another deer I'd give up muzzleloading.  Thanks to the precision rifle bullets (  www.prbullet.com  ).  These things are incredible.  The bullet on the left was recovered from a small buck I shot at about 20 yds who dropped in his tracks (with 100 grains pyrodex rs), the one on the right was recovered from a doe I shot at about 50 yds. with only 80 grains of 777 powder.  This load is awesome and barely kicks compared to some loads.  The dead centers I'm shooting are 220 grains.  Give em a try, you'll love them.  Thanks, Greg

Here is the link   http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/gt2003/precisionrifle220graindeadcenters.jpg 

[gt2003]

Simonkenton, What powder and how many grains were you shooting with the XTP 250 grain bullet you talked about here

"Yes you can get good expansion with saboted bullets.
I am holding in my hand a Hornady 250 xtp, as you may know this is a hollow point. I shot a deer in the chest with this slug at 70 yards. The bullet went through part of the neck, through the right lung, and stopped just under the skin after passing all the way through the lung.
This bullet started at 250 grains, now weighs 182 grains. It is a perfect mushroom, max diameter 1 1/4 inches. It knocked the deer for a backflip, and it was dead right there."

I'm only guessing that I was not shooting a fast enough load to get good expansion from the bullets.  I could drive nails with them but their performance on live game was not good.  From what I have heard, the dead centers will also hold up to magnum loads as well.  Let us know about the load you were shooting.  Thanks, Greg

[simonkenton]

I am shooting VihtaVouri N110, 43 weighed grains.
Another classic load for the Savage is AA5744, 45 grains with the 250XTP, also gives about 2,300 fps.
All the Savage boys get good expansion with the 250 XTP, of course we are driving it at hypervelocity.  Some of the Savage maniacs are not happy unless they are getting 2,600 fps or more with a 250 gr. slug.  Call me a wimp, but my shoulder can't stand such a load.
Talk about expansion! On the chest shot I described above, I got a 4 inch ENTRANCE wound. . Never seen anything like it.

[gt2003]

Thanks for the update on the load.  I'm a pretty big guy but am not too much into pain.  Thats the reason I opted for the 80 grains of loose 777 and the decrease from the 300 grain XTP to the 220 grain dead center.  My muzzleloader is much more pleasant to shoot now.  Distance is not too much of an option since all my shots to date have been within 50 yds.  I don't ever see myself shooting over 100 yds in the area I hunt now.  If things change, I'll adjust accordingly.  Thanks again, Greg

[kudzu]

Be careful with the xtp's. Both the 250 and 300 comes in a MAG version and have thicker jackets. Had a buddy that killed everything he shot at with the 250 reg. XTP and didn't realize he got the XTP mags and things went south. Now he pays closer attention.

I at one time was getting great accuracy with 90 grs pyro. with 250 xtp but was not enough ump to make the bullet work. IMO  the reg. xtp works better from 110 grs and up.

I too also shoot a savage now and went with the SST for the higher BC. The xtps were accurate but most of the places I can muzzleload hunt can be up to a 200 yrd or better shot. At the savage speeds the 250 sst didn't hold. Getting great ''on game" performance from the 300SST.
Just for referance 69gr H4198 and 300sst around 2450MV.
Good luck, DM

[Biff Mayhem]

Be careful with the xtp's. Both the 250 and 300 comes in a MAG version and have thicker jackets. Had a buddy that killed everything he shot at with the 250 reg. XTP and didn't realize he got the XTP mags and things went south. Now he pays closer attention.

I at one time was getting great accuracy with 90 grs pyro. with 250 xtp but was not enough ump to make the bullet work. IMO  the reg. xtp works better from 110 grs and up.

I too also shoot a savage now and went with the SST for the higher BC. The xtps were accurate but most of the places I can muzzleload hunt can be up to a 200 yrd or better shot. At the savage speeds the 250 sst didn't hold. Getting great ''on game" performance from the 300SST.
Just for referance 69gr H4198 and 300sst around 2450MV.
Good luck, DM

The 250 XTP is a regular XTP -- not a Mag bullet. Check Hornady's website (handgun bullets) for information. You now prefer the 300s because that is a XTP Mag variation with a polymer tip. The 250 SST/Shockwave is a variation of a regular XTP with a polymer tip. So performance will be different.

That's the way I understand it. If I'm wrong, then please state where I'm mistaken.

[slave]

The 275gr Barnes XPB is a great bullet for the 50cal hunter who keeps his shots under 200yds. Althoug it was designed for the 460 s/w it  is a great shoter that penitrates like no other, expands at 1400 fps. If one bullet can do it all this may be the one.