Author Topic: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?  (Read 8138 times)

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Offline rickt300

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What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« on: August 19, 2006, 05:57:14 PM »
I just got a good deal on a nice older Remington in the cartridge and noticed that the board is void of recent topics concerning it. I'm looking for the powder that gives the highest velocities with the 175 grain bullet, hoping to pass  2900 fps or at least get near it.
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2006, 07:19:31 AM »


Nothing happpend to it...it's still around and doing just fine...After all the hub-bub over magnums..http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,95545.0.html...It's no wonder they aren't being discussed... ;)

Mac
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Offline poncaguy

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2006, 10:41:58 AM »
I just liked my 270 WSM more than I did the 7 Rem Mag..............My Winchester 270 WSM Super Shadow was more accurate and less recoil than my synthetic skeleton stocked Ruger 77 and a Savage 7 Mag. I'll stick with the 270, 270 WSM, and probably get a 280 some day.......

Offline Chuck White

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2006, 01:55:24 PM »
rickt300
My old Speer manual #10 lists 68.0 grains of IMR 4831 as the MAX IMR load at 2935 fps, and 70 grains of H450 as the MAX Hodgdon load at 2948 fps!

My 1973 Hornady also lists several loads at 2900 fps!

Myself, I think these loads are pushing it a little, but that's what's listed!

Work your way up slowly!
Chuck White
USAF Retired, Life Member, NRA & NAHC
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just get good with it!

Offline kombi1976

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2006, 03:35:15 PM »
I just got a good deal on a nice older Remington in the cartridge and noticed that the board is void of recent topics concerning it. I'm looking for the powder that gives the highest velocities with the 175 grain bullet, hoping to pass  2900 fps or at least get near it.
I don't know about anyone else, but people have banged on about the 7mm Rem Mag so much that I'm surprised you can't find some sort of thread on it.
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline Grumulkin

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2006, 02:10:36 AM »
I recently bought a 7mm Rem. Mag. barrel for my Encore.  It has a muzzel brake; not because I wanted one but the price was too good to pass up.  The barrel is fantastic with minimal recoil and great accuracy.  I'm shooting 160 grain Hornady A-Max bullets over RL-22 with CCI BR-2 primers.

Offline BloomGrad

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2006, 06:30:04 AM »
I've always used IMR-4831 in my 7 Rem Mag. but have switched to H4831sc.  It meters better through my powder measure.

I tried that load mentioned as a max by rickt300 of 68.0 grns of IMR-4831 ONCE.  When it is listed as a max load they were not kidding.  Flattend and flowing primers and an almost stuck closed bolt.  I stopped shooting and pulled all of the remaining bullets out of self preservation.  Every gun is different so each must go SLOW in working up loads for their own rifle.

Try 8700 or H870 for the heavy 175gr bullets.  I don't have to shoot that heavy a bullet so I don't have any extensive range notes on them.

Go Slow and Shoot SAFE.
Just my 2 cents

DAVE

Offline rickt300

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2006, 06:53:20 AM »
I always felt the reason for mag cases was to push the heavier bullets faster. By the way I didn't list that max loading. I have some of the original H4831 I could work up with, some AA3100, IMR 4350, and some 7828. Ihave noticed that many manuals are soft loading the 7 Rem mag lately and it is due to the great variation in chambers. The early rifles often had big chambers and were actually figuring on headspacing on the belt just like the 300 H&H or the 375 H&H. So using old data in a newer tight chambered gun could causetrouble.
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Offline BloomGrad

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2006, 07:36:10 AM »
Sorry, rickt300

My typing was going faster than my brain.  My appologies.  I don't know haow to correct a previous post or I would.  I should have mentioned Speer #10 manual.

I think you and everyone agree that to load for a rifle can be a delicate process to keep from getting hurt or causing damage.  This is the point I tried to get across.

When I had my problem it was years ago with a brand new Hornady book and a brand new can of IMR4831.  This was over 25 years ago.  I was new to reloading.  Reading magazines back then it was all the rage to push it to the max and many times recomenations flowed to use the max in books as a suggestion.  If your rifle could take it use it and not worry about things like temperature and conditions.  These were the days before barrel strain guages and piezo pressure sensors for computers.

Now I just load enough to keep the load matched to the game I'll go after.  I may load down for deer in the woods in my .35 Whelen to .358 Win speeds or maybe hair below.  If going for moose the fullhouse is the order of the day.  If Paper targets and plinking then I'll load down to save my shoulder and have a longer fun time at the range.  Or put up some match bullets for small holes regardless of the powder charge.

Variety.  This is what reloading does for me.  And save me money to boot.

my 2 cents.   
Just my 2 cents

DAVE

Offline rickt300

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2006, 08:54:19 PM »
When I was much younger I used to load really hot. The way I could tell if the case was worn out it had 4 bright spots on it's head from the ejector of my old Remington 270.  Man was I lucky. I still work up, generally ignoring the primer till I see the slightest deformation of the case head from any unsupported part of the case head and back off one grain. The truth is as far as effect on game if the bullet is well placed I can't see any. If the bullet is poorly placed I notice a lot of difference but it has little to do with any particular cartridge. The reason I seldom mention my heavier loads is that Mine are generally only good in my rifle. I always work up from at least 4 grains below any load I see listed.
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Offline BloomGrad

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2006, 03:52:19 AM »
rickt300 -

Man reading your last post was like reading a page from my own notes.  Very much including your thoughts on game reaction.

Wow -  Great like minds think the same huh?
Just my 2 cents

DAVE

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2006, 08:09:02 AM »
I am currently loading the 7 Rem. Magnum with three different powders.  All three powders produce good accuracy.  I have used H870 and AA8700 for 175-grain bullets.  I will continue to use these two powders because they do the job and I have it on hand.

I like H4831 for 145 and 160-grain bullets.  I will try burning up some AA8700 to push 160-grain bullets.  The cases are setting on the bench waiting for me.

In the unlikely case that I find a need for additional powder for the 7 Mag., I will consider MagPro.  In its latest manual Accurate has dropped it’s recommendation for AA8700 and now recommends MagPro.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/reloading.htm
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Offline Lives2hunt

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2006, 04:54:12 PM »
My 7MM Rem. Mag. rifle shoots better than I can.. It will shoot 5 rounds inside 1.4" which works for whatever I hunt with it. My load is 162 gr. Hornady BTSP from 59 grs. of IMR 4831 (about 2,900 fps) and it has made one shot kills on evertyhing I've ever shot with it including elk. I have no doubt that if I wee to shoot a grizzly with it that that grizzly wouldn't live very many seconds. The damage that bullet has done on the game I've shot with it, dies of shock & internal hemoraging right away. I love it!!
Will hunt for food.

Offline rickt300

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2006, 08:29:19 PM »
I'm waiting for the weather to ease out of the 100's and then I will do some shooting with it. People say the 7 Rem mag isn't any better than the 270 but the 7 mag can do at a leisurly pace what the 270 does loded to the gills.
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Offline Don Fischer

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2006, 03:25:27 AM »
What the 7mm mag does that the 270 doesn't is handle 160gr+ bullets very well.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline rickt300

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2006, 07:41:54 AM »
It will also push 150-160 grain bullets to the same velocities the 270 can at a more relaxed pressure level.
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Offline kombi1976

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2006, 01:29:09 PM »
It will also push 150-160 grain bullets to the same velocities the 270 can at a more relaxed pressure level.
Small wonder the 270 isn't ideal for 160gn bullets.
The magic load for the 270 is with 130gn bullets.
And the reason the 7mm Mag can push 160gn pills with less pressure is because of the superior powder space and the larger bore.
8)

Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline Jim n Iowa

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2006, 01:32:57 PM »
To me 175 g in a 7mm mag is a Elk bullet. My 7mm likes the 160 g area with IMR 4831 or IMR 7828 loaded to around 2900 fps, which will do fine for most hunting. I have not had a satisfactory group from the 175, 1.75" best at 100 from a bench. For bigger game I use a .338.
Jim

Offline jro45

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2006, 11:11:15 AM »
I use H4831 for other then large bullets  in my Rem 7mm Mag.

Offline Jaydub in Wi

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2006, 12:34:16 PM »
I loaded 175s for a friend using RL 25. very good results. H 1000 ,IMR 7828 or ramshot's magnum may be worth a try.

Offline jro45

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2006, 02:49:16 AM »
For my 160 and 175 gr bullets I use H1000. The 160s go about 3100 fps and the 175 go about 2950 fps.

Offline Don Fischer

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2006, 04:44:46 PM »
The way I could tell if the case was worn out it had 4 bright spots on it's head from the ejector of my old Remington 270.  Man was I lucky.


That might be a good way to keep track of how many firing's you made with the cases! ::)
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline rickt300

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2006, 06:34:49 AM »
Well I am done weathersealing and bedding the stock. The trigger is fine as is and I have a new 3x9 Nikon Buckmaster scope to put on it. Gun range next week. Worked up two loads using the 150 grain Sierra BTSP and the 175 Hornady Interlok, AA3100for the former and surplus 4831 for the latter.
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2006, 06:41:47 PM »
All but one of my elk have fallen to a 160 or 162g bullet from my 7mm Rem Mag.   The other fell to my .45-70.

A 160g North Fork is my current choice, over H1000.  The grooves in the body let me break 3000fps with no pressure signs.

There are a lot of newer rounds available, but the 7mm Mag sure knows how to dance.
Coyote Hunter
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Offline rickt300

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2006, 08:25:32 PM »
If the rifle shoots as well after being bedded properly as it did before then it's real use on my deer lease will be tha unusual longer shot. Which is no more than 350 yards. The heavier bullet will be used on hogs at close range after dark. hopefully the two loads will shoot pretty close together.
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2006, 04:42:47 AM »
rickt300 –

The 7mm Rem Mag has been my primary hunting rifle for 25 years.   My first elk fell to a 162g Hornady BTSP leaving the barrel at around 2900-3000fps (didn’t have a chrono back then).  That bullet hit a rib dead center, passed through the chest and ended up under the hid on the off side.  There was no significant rib damage on the far side, meaning the challenge to the bullet’s integrity was pretty minimal.  I’m looking at that bullet as I write and the note with it says it now weighs 77.2g for 47.7% weight retention.  I consider this bullet to have failed (what would have happened on a shoulder shot where much more bone was encountered?) and that the elk died regardless.  The next year I switched to 160g Grand Slam bullets and didn’t recover one for 20 years as all exited.  When I finally did recover one it was from a shoulder shot that took out both joints and some bone in-between.  Once again the bullet was recovered from under the hide on the off side.  The recovered Grand Slam weighed 113.7g (2.4x that of the Hornady Interlock) for 71.1% retained weight.  The challenge to the Grand Slam’s integrity was extreme but it performed much better than the Hornady.

I provide this info not because I am recommending the Grand Slam, as I am not.  I am recommending you step up to an even better bullet for hunting and develop a load that shoots to a similar point of aim for most of your practice work.  These days I shoot North Fork bullets and my hunting buddy has switched from Grand Slam to Speer Trophy Bonded.  Either one of these, or a Swift A-Frame, would be my recommendation.  The North Fork bullets have external grooves that reduce the bearing surface (friction) and allow an extra 100fps or so (like the grooves on the Barnes TSX).  The North Forks are also the most accurate bullets I have ever shot in my 7mm Mag.  (0.266” center-to-center at 100 yards, 3 shots.)  In several rifle and cartridge combinations the north Fork loads have proven to be extremely consistent and accurate, with single digit Standard Deviations common and single digit Extreme Spreads fairly common as well.

In your situation I would use a single load and would use the 160g bullets.  The higher weight retention of the bullets recommended will more than make up for the weight reduction from the Hornady 175g and with the North Forks you should be able to meet or beat the velocities you get with the Sierra 150g BTSP.  I run the 160g North Forks at 3048fps using H1000, Federal brass and CCI 250 primers.  (Remember the grooves reduce friction and hence pressure and velocity, so it takes more powder than for other bullets, just as it does with lubricated and other grooved bullets.  I tend to look at XLC data and back off a bit for the maximum powder charge when working up North Fork loads.  So far no signs of excess pressure have been seen with this load but I stopped any way.)

Just food for thought.  I have no use for standard cup-and-core bullets at velocities over around 2800fps except for paper and steel and other inanimate targets.




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Offline rickt300

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2006, 04:37:58 PM »
I don't expect my impact velocities to be even as high as 2800 fps and on these less than 200 pound deer I expect quick kills. Quick kills are how I judge a bullets performance not by exit holes. Not that I have anything against bullets exiting though. I will do my best to not hit the deer in a shoulder just to avoid needless meat loss.
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Offline Don Fischer

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2006, 05:28:00 PM »
I believe that quick kills are more a function of bullet placement than performance. I once shot a mule deer with a 75gr V-Max and it killed it like lighting. The bullet went between two ribs and blew up in the chest cavity. Had I hit a rib I doubt the shot would have been that dramatic. But it does demonstrate that good placement for the bullet used makes a bad cvhoice in bullets look awful good. I've never tried that again and never will. It was stupid and childish. :-[
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2006, 05:48:06 PM »
I don't expect my impact velocities to be even as high as 2800 fps and on these less than 200 pound deer I expect quick kills. Quick kills are how I judge a bullets performance not by exit holes. Not that I have anything against bullets exiting though. I will do my best to not hit the deer in a shoulder just to avoid needless meat loss.

Unfortunately you often don't know at what range you will be shooting.  First elk hunt I went on a guy shot an elk that was under the same pine tree.  Another time I had a mulie doe jump over my legs while I was sitting.  Figure impact velocities in the worst case will be very nearly muzzle velocity.  And don't count on a clean shot - stuff happens and you may have to put down a fleeing and wounded animal - from the south.  Do yourself a favor and at least use Partitions.

Just my 2 cents...



[edited to correct spelling of 'pine' and 'velocities']
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Offline Don Fischer

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Re: What happened to the 7MM Remington Mag?
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2006, 05:51:51 AM »
Coyote Hunter is right but the bottom line is, you NEVER have to take the shot; you always CHOOSE to!
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]