.357 Sig on Mule Deer/Black Bear using 125 gr Bonded Cores?

[AuProspector]

Does anyone have experience with the 125gr .357 Sig and the bonded core Remington/Speer handgun ammo on mule deer or black bear?   

Thanks

[Redhawk1]

If this is not a joke, you need to check your state laws on caliber and power needed. Personally I think it is not a good idea and rather foolish, but that is just my opinion. 

[Dusty Miller]

Does anybody have any experience with the Beeman pellet gun against a Cape buffalo? 

[wheelgun]

Does anybody have any experience with the Beeman pellet gun against a Cape buffalo? 

Yes, but shot placement is critical.

[Qaz]

 Redhawk if that isn't a joke, that problem will take care of itself.

 Dusty, I have some experience with this. You have to use the magnum pellets in 22 caliber to put them down quickly, or wait for them to laugh themselves to death using the 177 caliber pellets. Maybe it is, they will laugh them selves to death while watching the the pelletgun being removed from the poor saps bum. I know it is one of them!   

Qaz

[poncaguy]

Go for the eye..........then RUN!

[AuProspector]

Sorry Gents

But no, it's no joke.

I didn't say that I was using it as a primary hunting caliber/ammo combo.  But I am only interested in the cartridge's preformance on these animals. 

Back in the .357 mag era, these animals were taken regularly with the 158 gr bullet.  With premium bonded cores, you can go with a lighter bullet and still get penetration.

Commonly, I carry a G31 where I live in the Rocky Mtn West.  Mostly in urban areas, but upon occassion, I find myself in the mountains.

Not trying to cause strife or an arguement, but I see that there is a few ignorant responders to my post.  Very childish and disrepectful, computer keyboard warriors?  This is a truly powerful round but I have my own personal doubts about the 125grs in this caliber and its use on these animals, hence the question.

The question still stands,  "Does anyone have experience with the 125gr .357 Sig and the bonded core Remington/Speer handgun ammo on mule deer or black bear? "

[PaulS]

As I see it (and I could be wrong) the 357 Sig is slighly less potent than the 357 Maximum. The cartridge is adequate for mule deer at close range with heavy bullets. The same is true for black bear. By heavy bullets I mean a minimum weight of 158 grains and the maximum weight would be around 180 grain - due only to the space available for powder with the heavier bullet. The 125 grain bullet in my 357 maximum is unimpressive as far as accuracy is concerned and the velocity increase is out of proportion to the loss in weight. At 140 grains the numbers begin to get better but at 158 and 160 grains the Sig and maximum come into their own. For your use the 170 grain Sierra JHC would probably be best for feeding and terminal performance. You are limited in selection of the 180 grain bullets by magazine and feeding problems. The Speer and Hornady 180 grain FMJ is not legal for hunting in my state but yours may allow the use of "non-expanding" bullets.

[pastorp]

AUprospector, There is a thread on www.glocktalk.com in the357sig section discussing this subject. Several law inforcement officers responded relaying incidents of vlcious anmials or game hit by cars and having to be put down. You may find their experiences interesting. Regards, Byron

[Qaz]

 Au, I laughed because we have large black bears in our area and I have more respect for them than to use a small caliber and light bullet. Shooting a bear in a tree and one from a blind are two different ball games.
 The problem as I see it with questions like your is this: Fred(45) down the street goes bear hunting with his buddies. Once the dogs have the bear in the tree, Fred climbs up the tree and shoots the bear with a 22Mag. Bear falls to the ground dead as a door nail. Jimmy(13), who lives a couple of blocks up the street hears the story, all but the part about Fred climbing the tree. Jimmy has a 22mag and would love to kill a bear. Jimmy gets up saturday to hunt fox, he calls in a black bear and shoots him with a 22mag. The problem is, said bear came in hungry, got beaned in the head with a 40gr 22mag bullet, and Jimmy is the first thing he sees to take his frusrations out on. 
 If you think this is far fetched, don't, some thing very similar happened when I was a kid. The difference is Jimmy lived and learned from his mistake. The next Jimmy may not be so lucky!

  Alot of kids and people that just don't know any better read the posts to learn from others experiences before they go out and try it. Your question may be harmless, but someones answer may not be!

Qaz

[Mikey]

Au - please do not compare the 357 Sig and the 357 Magnum.  They are comparable with lightweight bullets at similar velocities, as are the 38 Super, the 9x23mm, the 357 Sig and the 357 Magnum - all with 125 gn bullets.  But the 357 Magnum made its name with heavier bullets in the 158 gn range and in that bullet weight range there is no comparison twixt the Sig and the Magnum. 

I have taken large cat in South America and Colorado using loads at the Sig power level (a Charles Askins load  - 115 gn hp at 1450'/sec) in the 38 Super, which is comparable to the 357 Sig, but cats have thin skins and bullets like that will penetrate on them if you put it through the chest.  No so with Bear.  With Bear the lightweight bullet will not have the same effect and you will find yourself in very deep stuff if you whizz off a Bear.  For Mulies it might work if you are close enough but I wouldn't opt for it if I had the chance. 

The Sig cartridge is a good defense round against human targets, not wild predators the size of bear.  If you prefer a 357 Magnum class round then use that cartridge with heavy loads (180 - 200 gn slugs) or go to a heavier caliber. 

Oh yeah - guys c'mon - this was a serious question.  There are a lot fo folk out there who confuse the power levels of different cartridges with similar nomenclature and they look to the more experienced shooters for advice.  Geez............  Mikey.

[Redhawk1]

Au - please do not compare the 357 Sig and the 357 Magnum.  They are comparable with lightweight bullets at similar velocities, as are the 38 Super, the 9x23mm, the 357 Sig and the 357 Magnum - all with 125 gn bullets.  But the 357 Magnum made its name with heavier bullets in the 158 gn range and in that bullet weight range there is no comparison twixt the Sig and the Magnum. 

I have taken large cat in South America and Colorado using loads at the Sig power level (a Charles Askins load  - 115 gn hp at 1450'/sec) in the 38 Super, which is comparable to the 357 Sig, but cats have thin skins and bullets like that will penetrate on them if you put it through the chest.  No so with Bear.  With Bear the lightweight bullet will not have the same effect and you will find yourself in very deep stuff if you whizz off a Bear.  For Mulies it might work if you are close enough but I wouldn't opt for it if I had the chance. 

The Sig cartridge is a good defense round against human targets, not wild predators the size of bear.  If you prefer a 357 Magnum class round then use that cartridge with heavy loads (180 - 200 gn slugs) or go to a heavier caliber. 

Oh yeah - guys c'mon - this was a serious question.  There are a lot fo folk out there who confuse the power levels of different cartridges with similar nomenclature and they look to the more experienced shooters for advice.  Geez............  Mikey.

OK, for the sake of argument lets say he was serious, my answer was not childish and disrespectful, nor was I trying to be a computer keyboard warrior. I don't think  AuProspector is a novice in the hunting world, even though he is a newer member here. So I think people need to make good choices when they go hunting for something that can turn around and hunt you.  If you happen to be walking in the woods and a black bear attacks you, by all means use whatever you have at your disposal, but if you intend on using it for hunting, choose a better suitable cartridge.

[AuProspector]

I don't think  AuProspector is a novice in the hunting world, even though he is a newer member here. So I think people need to make good choices when they go hunting for something that can turn around and hunt you.  If you happen to be walking in the woods and a black bear attacks you, by all means use whatever you have at your disposal, but if you intend on using it for hunting, choose a better suitable cartridge.

Very astute Redhawk1.  I've been chewin' corn for long while.

There are times, when the Mrs. and I are out for a drive in the mountains, when she decides she wants to stop, go for a walk, and pick posies.   If I have fore knowledge of these endeavors, I am suitably attired, however, on spur of the moments, I'll usually have my G31 or G23 with me.  As a buddy once said to me, 'better than nothing.' 

I wasn't considering the .357 SIG for hunting, but I placed it (the question) in the handgun hunting section because I figure the knowledgeable folks here would help me understand my frivolity.

[dougk]

In my quest for an all around ranch gun I ended up with a 357 sig but this round was chosen for a specific application; to put injured deer down, to shoot coyote and raccoon.  Based on the poor performance of the .357 sig using Corbon 115gr @ 1500 fps on raccoon (which I understand are part of the bear family)  I would not use this round as backup for bear. 

Why use a 10mm or keep a 44 mag in the trunk lock box?

Doug

[Mikey]

Redhawk1:  Whoa Buddy - there was absolutely nothing untoward about your response to Auprospector, in any regard.

But, that being said there are times when some of the more experienced handgunners on these sites are, indeed, near murderously cruel in their responses (Dusty?).  Sometimes it makes for a good laugh but other times it makes me wonder how the folks who pose the questions actually take some of the responses.

And it is true that lots of folk confuse cartridge capabilities due to similar nomenclature (and if you think it is difficult for me to use that word so early in the morning, you're right...............) so I always try and take the question seriously.  As did you right up front when you said "if this is not a joke'.................

This is one of the reasons I enjoy your posts and responses and respect you as a moderator - you always look at things right.  Mikey. 

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk1:  Whoa Buddy - there was absolutely nothing untoward about your response to Auprospector, in any regard.

But, that being said there are times when some of the more experienced handgunners on these sites are, indeed, near murderously cruel in their responses (Dusty?).  Sometimes it makes for a good laugh but other times it makes me wonder how the folks who pose the questions actually take some of the responses.

And it is true that lots of folk confuse cartridge capabilities due to similar nomenclature (and if you think it is difficult for me to use that word so early in the morning, you're right...............) so I always try and take the question seriously.  As did you right up front when you said "if this is not a joke'.................

This is one of the reasons I enjoy your posts and responses and respect you as a moderator - you always look at things right.  Mikey. 

Mikey I try, but sometimes even I can get out there.   I also have a Sig in 375 Sig and I carry it with me. But my concern is not of the 4 legged kind. But if that was all I had and a black bear came at me. I sure would unload as many of the 12 shots I have into him. When I am on my land in West Virginia I carry a sub nose 38 with 2 rounds of bird shot cartridges for snakes and 3 rounds of 125 gr. HP. But that is not in a hunting situation, I would have my 460 Mag in that case.