Pipe stuffer/Smokeless Powder?

[Dusty Miller]

I saw an add today for a Savage Arms front loader that uses smokeless powder.  Is this something new?  I can see the traditional BP shooters turning up their collective nose at it but to me it looks pretty neat. 

[victorcharlie]

Several of the guys who post in the inline muzzle loader section are claiming near 2700 fps with a 250 grain bullet.......

I think Savages web page says 2300fps but might be a different bullet

I'm thinking that's near the power of a .35 Whelen.....

Some claim to shoot 300 yards with this gun.......

I haven't seen one yet, but seems like a real beast to me!

[Dusty Miller]

A 250 gr. bullet at 2700 fps makes more oomph than an '06.  If the recoil is under control it might just be the cat's meow. 

[KYsquirrelsniper]

The Savage ML and the newer MLII have been out for several years now.

To find out more about them, check out http://www.randywakeman.com/ and http://www.savageshooters.net/

However, be warned that some people out there are loading the Savage MLs waaayyy too hot, just like many reloaders load their ammo way too hot. If you check out the two sites above, you'll find out more about what the gun can really do and what's really safe to do with it.

[rickyp]

make sure you check your state regs very carefully some states will not allow the use of anything but black powder. In Maryland we can only use black powder or a black powder equivalent no smokeless powder

[kudzu]

rickyp, smokless IS blackpowder equivalent. Don't know what part of Md. you hunt in, but on the eastern shore we have used the MLII's for three years with smokless. Perfectly Legal my friend.

From the Md. Hunting and trapping guide: Muzzleloaders used for deer hunting must be at least .40cal. in size and use not less than 60 gr. of blackpowder(or a blackpowder equivalent).

This meaning any powder equivalent to at least 60grs. of blackpowder including smokeless mat be used.

Most states that do not allow smokeless will be specific in saying so.

[RandyWakeman]

I saw an add today for a Savage Arms front loader that uses smokeless powder.  Is this something new?  I can see the traditional BP shooters turning up their collective nose at it but to me it looks pretty neat. 

It is entering its 7th year of production.

[rickyp]

This meaning any powder equivalent to at least 60grs. of blackpowder including smokeless mat be used.

That is not what the gamewarden told me, he told me it applys to powders like tripple 7 pyrodex and the others that are ment to replace black powder. smokeless powders and black powder ( or replacements) are not close to each other.

[Flash]

rickyp, You are absolutely correct......partially. In a "Rifle" county, it is perfectly legal to use smokeless powder in the Savage smoker but not in a "Shotgun Only" county or during a specific muzzle loader season.
Dancoman, smokeless powder is NOT a blackpowder equivalent.  Did you ever think of what would happen to your favorite blackpowder revolver by using a smokeless pistol powder?  It would come apart like a cheap toy. Thecaveat on blackpowder canisters support this FACT! You are interpreting the law to your own benefit. The 60 grain weight isn't the common denominator for legal acceptance, the propellant is and all those in the same category like H777 and Pyrodex.

[kudzu]

I suppose it's all a play of words. Smokless IMO is blackpowder equivalent, but not a sub. for black powder.777 and others are what I concider BP sub. I was not and never would try to advocate the use of smokless in a blackpowder only firearm.
the 60grs of bp or equivalent goes back to the rifle restriction of at least 1200ft lbs(at muzzle)



Having said this, I still hold my position on smokeless ML being legal in MD.
Nowhere does it restrict the use smokeless in muzzleloaders. There is restrictions on where you can use (breech loaded rifles).

Flash, In some states as listed on other sites, your statement would be correct. That after the designated ML season, smokless may be used durning the modern firearm season.


Having been in wildlife law enforcement for 10 years and talking to wildlife personnal in MD., I feel that my interpretation of the law is correct. This being a common problem in a lot of states, very vage laws.
regards,DM

[Flash]

Dancoman, I hope for your sake, you never have reason to prove what you're using in your muzzleloader. Having lived in Md. for most of my adult life and hunted in several eastern shore counties, I can say that the Md.  DNR officers can be pretty unforgiving and dislike their words being twisted. My cousins lost two Remington 1100's for having a shell in the chamber after sunset and having them laying in the back seat.

[kudzu]

Flash, I'm not tring to twist words. Just by reading what's in black and white I get that as long as the rifle is loaded thru the muzzle and generates at least 1200ftlbs of energy at the  muzzle it would be legal. there's nothing written to contradict this. at least nothing that is availible to the public. That's a common problem in most states. there's the regulation booklet you get when you buy your license vs the law book that the DNR carry. Sometimes they differ and more times than that if you ask one DNR officer a  question, you will get a differant answer from another. then it goes to the head office for yet another interpretation.
I will be making some calls this week for a concrete answer, for it is not my intention to be in violation on purpose or otherwise.

[quote author
        My cousins lost  two Remington 1100's for having a shell in the chamber after sunset and having them laying in the back seat.

I can't comment on this due to lack of info. Where they riding down the road and got stopped, where they standing around after the hunt , where they out in a field, had they even been hunting, what where the actual charges they where charged with. In no way am I saying that this is the case but have had people say the same thing, come to find out that they didn't have their gun taken for being loaded in the back seat, but due to another violation. Kinda like saying I was arrested for "drinking a few beers" when I was actually arrested for driving drunk.
regards,DM




 

[Flash]

Charges were having a loaded gun in the field after sunset. They had been goose hunting and walked back to the cars with the birds and guns. Within a few minutes, the warden pulled up and asked to see the waterfoul stamps and the ammo. It just so happened that the guns were still loaded even though it was steel shot.

[kudzu]

Sounds kind of cheesey to me on the wardens behalf. That would be like giving a ticket to a deer hunter for being in a deer stand before legal shooting time and having his firearm loaded or a waterfowl hunter who loads his firearm before legal shooting hours in his blind or while laying out in a field goose hunting. (as long as no  shots were fired).

[Flash]

Kind of like giving a fine to someone who has a smokeless powder in a muzzle loader designed to handle it. Like I said........good luck!

[rickyp]

MD's hunting reg booklet is very hazy with a lot of things. one thing the book is clear on is you can not have a loaded weapon in a car this includes against it.you can not have a shell in the magazine. A few years ago I was hunting on state land with my ruger old army, I was deep in the land and when legal hunting hours where over I came out. When I started to approach the parking lot i removes all the caps. When I got to my truck a game warden came to me and looked over my handgun and made sure it was uncapped he was ready to give me a ticket infarct so much he was looking in HIS books to try and find something to get me on.

[kudzu]

OK BOYS. Here It Is.

Just got off the phone with Marylands DNR Wildlife and Heritage Office in Annapolis. A sweet young lady answered the the phone and I posed the question to her, "Is the use of smokeless powder in muzzleloaders   legal for hunting in MD."
Her reply was "YES, I remember hearing that". I asked if she was positive.
She said I sounding as if I needed a second opinion. She put me on hold and went to talk to her boss, who we will call "Bob". And 'Bob's" answer was that there was nothing in the MD Wildlife Regulations that prohibited the use of smokless powder in muzzleloaders that is was perfectly legal.

Yall use what ya want, But Dancoman's Staying SMOKELESS.

regards, DM

[rickyp]

OK ,the information was put out. I am going to lock this before it gets out of hand