Author Topic: Best Sporter Conversion for the Money (Read 1981 times)

goodconcretecolor · « **on:** August 30, 2006, 10:22:15 AM »

Which MilSurp rifle makes the best sporter for the lowest total cost? It will be used for deer and black bear.

S.S. · « **Reply #1 on:** August 30, 2006, 10:40:56 AM »

The best looking sporter I have ever seen was a Swedish Mauser.
But to be honest, You can probably buy a decent modern rifle for what you
will end up paying for a nice conversion to a sporter.
Unless you let Bubba do it - AAAh! the miracles he has performed with a hacksaw and
some wood putty

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #2 on:** August 30, 2006, 10:56:45 AM »

Quote

Which MilSurp rifle makes the best sporter for the lowest total cost?

A stevens model 200 or a used savage 110 in 30-06.

jack19512 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 30, 2006, 04:34:02 PM »

Mosin Nagant M38. Just yesterday I completely removed all traces of rear sight and mine had been counterbored so I chucked the barrel in my lathe and cut the barrel back removing the front sight and cutting a new crown.

And don't think it is a bubba and won't shoot.

USMC0332 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2006, 05:41:14 PM »

A person with wood/metal working skills and information can make a very nice sporter themselves. You don't have to pay to have a nice rifle if you are capable of doing the work yourself. A hack is still a hack. Just as not everyone is capable of trimming a window, not everyone is capable of building a sporter. Those people should often hire/trade work done, unless they don't mind an ugly outcome. I built a Turk Mauser sporter with basic procedures and no special tools, and I am very proud of how it turned out.

351 power · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2006, 05:57:13 PM »

I bought a .303 lee enfield. ramline stock and ATI scope mount(about 100$ and no gunsmithing for the changes. Try to find a longbranch #4 mk1 enfield.

RaySendero · « **Reply #6 on:** August 31, 2006, 02:06:28 PM »

Swiss K-31s and Vz-24 Mausers make a good deer and hog rifles.

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #7 on:** September 01, 2006, 02:09:18 AM »

I would think that for the criteria you asked ( ...best sporter for the lowest total cost...) the Mauser would be the best choice. The action is second to none. They are many various versions: K-98, 24/47, Turkish M38, Swede, etc. There are probably more sporter parts available than any other mil surp and most experienced gunsmiths have the tooling and other equipment needed to customize/sporterize them.

The British Enfields rank up there as easy to sporterize, but there are not as many custom parts available as for the Mauser. The Enfields already have a bent bolt and the issue stocks can be used minus the upper forend pieces and a cut down lower forend. I've seen cut down forends available from some of the supply houses and at gun shows. Weaver used to make a one piece scope mount for the #4 ( TO-01, I believe) that can still be found at gun shows and older gun shops. Boyds had two piece walnut stock sets available the last time I checked. .303 ammo is still manufactured by Rem and Win and is avaiable at gun shows.

EVOC ONE

jack19512 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 01, 2006, 09:42:53 AM »

Quote from: EVOC ONE on September 01, 2006, 02:09:18 AM

I would think that for the criteria you asked ( ...best sporter for the lowest total cost...) the Mauser would be the best choice.

That would be a very good choice. I love my 8mm Mauser rifles. You can generally get a M/N for less money though. My M38 is a real shooter and I havn't got much money tied up in it at all.

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #9 on:** September 01, 2006, 04:12:28 PM »

Jack19512: Nice job on the M38. I have been planning a M38 project and have accumulated misc. parts for the converstion. So far, I have a Boyds Walnut stock and have obtained an old Weaver side mount and rings for the scope. I also ordered a generic bolt handle from Brownells. The side mount requires some modifying of the stock and I'm still looking at how the bolt handle will be mounted. I also need to find a m38 that I wont feel bad about cutting up. I do like how yours look, though.

EVOC ONE

jack19512 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 01, 2006, 04:43:09 PM »

The wood on mine was in bad shape so I really didn't lose anything by doing what I did to mine. On your bolt handle, is it a replacement bent bolt or is it one of the bent bolts like I used that you have to cut your original bolt and install ?

My bolt handle works good but if I do another(91/30) I will use a regular bent bolt. Don't you like the top mount for your scope? It is made of aluminum but is easy to install and it seems to work fine.

I wish I had a camera that would take good close-ups I would post a pic of the new crown I cut on my metal lathe. It looks real good.

Roudy · « **Reply #11 on:** September 01, 2006, 04:54:04 PM »

The best for the money?

Whatever your skill/pocketbook will allow and what you find pleasing! I've modified an 1893 Spanish Mauser, a couple Mosins, and an Ishapore Enfield. The one I like the best is the Ishapore Enfield; it is not the prettiest nor does it shoot the best, but I just love the action. It is chambered for the 7.62 NATO, and when I got it the metal was painted black and the stock ugly as sin. Wired brushed all the paint off, removed the rear sight, added a new fiberglass stock and Williams apperature rear sight. The rifle is still ugly and has only about 50% of the original bluing, and resides in my truck.

The rifle will shoot within 3 inches at 100 yards (with iron sights) but I can 'easily' cycle the action without ever taking the rifle out of my shoulder.

Unless you are converting military rifles to sporters as a business the better term would probably be to "Personalize" a rifle, because the things that you do to it should be the things that YOU like. Just make sure you get a rifle with a good bore and chamber and in a caliber you can live with, then enjoy yourself!

Roudy

jack19512 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 01, 2006, 05:38:41 PM »

I should add that for anyone planning on scoping their M/N if you thought the safety wasn't very user friendly before wait till you scope it. I will have to modify mine if I want to use it. Scout scope doesn't apply here of course.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #13 on:** September 01, 2006, 06:22:51 PM »

OK when you talk sporters I think of rifles like these two examples from my collection. In my opinion if it involves the use of a saw at any point it's a bubba not a sporter.
Both of the pictured rifle were built in the 60's I paid well under $200 for each. But to build a similar rifle today for someone who isn't a gunsmith would easily cost $700+. Now compare that to a new Savage Stevens for less than $250 new that allows for easy scope mounting user friendly safteys and ammo that can be had at the local wally world and you can see why sporterizations make little sense these days

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #14 on:** September 02, 2006, 05:51:24 PM »

Jack 19512: The bolt handle I purchased resembles a Win M70 handle although it is generic. Brownells advertises it as popular for converstions. After playing with it against the bolt, it should not be hard to mount (for an experianced welder) I just have to figure out how I want to mount it. Regarding the side mount I have, it appears that it can be mounted in such a way as to position the scope over the center of the reciever, so long as I have a round receiver Mosin. I have looked at the mount you used (just looked at one today at Dunhams, as a matter of fact). It seems heavy and sturdy enough, but the two screw mounting has me a bit concerned. I know there are other that have used the same mount, but I cannot recall reading any comments about long term use. Perhaps I'm just being a bit over cautious. As far as the bolt handle you used, I have read where they have come loose and I've seen others resort to welding it on. My though has been that if there is the possiblity of having to weld it, I might as well start with a weld and have a typical looking handle. All this is guess work at this point. Fortunately I have not sunk a great deal of money into it, save for the Boyd stock. I believe the handle cost $7 and the Weaver side mount and rings were purchased at a shop going out of business for less than $20.

Krochus: You are correct, sir. The days of sporterizing a mil surp to the extent of the ones you pictured (which by the way are both very nice examples) and saving some dollars are long gone. It has to be a hobby for someone willing to put out the coin. The expense can be reduce if the hobbiest can do some of the work themselves or if the sporterizing is kept to a minimum, such as Jack19512's Mod 38. But, you are correct, with rifles such as the Stevens 200 and even the Mossberg ATR, not including the deals out there on good used rifles, sporterizing/customizing is not very cost effective any longer.

But it sure is fun!

EVOC ONE

Slamfire · « **Reply #15 on:** September 02, 2006, 06:01:38 PM »

I've seen several Japanese Arisaka type 38s that have been used by gunsmithing students. Most were rechambered for the 6.5-.257, a good cartridge but you'll need to handload, its a wildcat. Nowadays something like a .260 Remington would make a better choice. These generally go pretty cheap, but have some important features. They are the STRONGEST, bar none, military surplus actions. They have the BEST safety, the striker is rotated away from the trigger, and rests on a shoulder machined in the receiver. They handle escapeing gas from a split case better than most. There is however, no way to make them cock on opening, which don't bother me any.

USMC0332 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 06, 2006, 05:15:41 PM »

I built my Turk sporter pretty cheap.
$89 gun
$45 mounts and rings
$45 scope on sale at Fleet Farm (Alpen 1.5-4.5x32, I like it)
$18 sling and one QD stud
$22 low swing safety (on sale at Midway)
$15 bluing kit (used Birchwood-Casey, recommend Brownells oxpho blue)
plus sandpaper and time
This is a fun hobby. Like all hobbies you CAN spend a lot, or a little.
I have become a fan of the 8x57 as well as the 7.62x54r. I would like more money to work on more guns, but I like the projects I have undertaken so far.

gswagner.com has good sporterezing info. Kalinka makes a M-N sidemount I am interested in. I would like to build a 91-30 with a removable scope and Marbles peepsight with a 24" barrel.

Hawkster318 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 08, 2006, 01:08:37 AM »

My vote is for the K-31 as well.

The bottom rifle is my Deer Rifle. I went with the drill and tap mount from Swiss Products. Hornady has hunting rounds available if you don't roll your own. Remove the sling's quick disconnect buckle before heading out, it makes too much noise. Swiss rifles have never seen corrosive ammo, so bores are all good.

kiddekop · « **Reply #18 on:** September 09, 2006, 12:12:02 PM »

My choice is the m1 garand with the mini scope mount from www.amegasranges.com .I hunted mule deer with a garand in CO using iron sights, a redfield globe hooded post front sight and handloaded 165 Nos BT's,47.5gr of IMR 4895 and a Fed 210 primer in military/commercial brass the buck fell to a neck shot at 300 yards.Ammo load data was from an Am Rifleman article in the March 1986 issue which I still have and have made copies of that I've sent to several shooters in other states,the article data indicated accuracy using the data to 1,2 or 3 minutes of angle my garand was approx 1 .5 moa accurate enough.

jh45gun · « **Reply #19 on:** September 11, 2006, 06:58:11 PM »

For a sporter that ANYONE CAN DO that will turn out great I have to vote for the K31. Bores are great I really have not heard of a bad one yet. The triggers are great too K31's are known for their great triggers which of course helps their great accuracy. So no trigger job is needed. Scope mounts wether they be the ones that go on the rail or the scout mout ones are good mounts that anyone can install and they work. Other mounts are available that you drill and tap but why do so when the rail mounted ones work great as do the scout mount ones. So going to a gunsmith to have a scope mounted or trying to drill and tap a receiver is not neccessary with a K31. Stock work is what you want. Mine is a scout mounted gun and every thing else is left as is. It is still light enough to hunt with. If your handy with wood you can alter the origional or buy a replacement sporter stock. Inleting a stock can be a pain if you have never done it so altering the factory stock may be easier. Even the drop in stocks you buy normally need alterations in the inleting. The K31 is the easiest to scope and to make into a ACCURATE sporter. Other milsurps may or may not be as accurate with the acception of a Swedish Mauser they equal the Swiss gun as far as accuracy goes but they are harder to scope as you need to drill and tap and alter the bolt maybe. Oh that is an other thing the straight pull bolt of the Swiss gun does not need to be altered like many of the Mausers or Mosins do so you do not need a bolt job either.

Speaking of that I bought one of those Bolt Kits you see for Mausers that you see where you cut off the bolt and leave the stub and then drill and tap that for the bolt to fit on too. Well they work but they are made to go with the HIGH fitting stock made for the mausers so if you use the bolt kit with out the stock you need to buy some really high rings for the scope. Like over a inch. I was able to find some used ones at the gun shop but not every one may be able to find them or you may need to find some really high bases then high rings to get it to work.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 13, 2006, 05:22:20 PM »

I love my k98 and in reality the only Nth American game the 8x57JS won't take reliably are grizzly bears.
But for accurate, long range, low recoil, hard hitting and high penetration field capabilities in a reliable package there is no better rifle, IMO, than the M96/M38 Swedish Mausers in 6.5x55.
Here's my mates rifle complete with Tasco 6x40.

New single stage triggers, safeties, scout mounts, replacement peep sights/ghost rings are available without even cutting and welding the bolthandle.
Factory ammo is made by plenty of firms to and reloading possibilities are endless in terms of projectiles.
I consider this the best all round rifle for Australia and it's probably not far behind as an all round rifle for America too.

jh45gun · « **Reply #21 on:** September 15, 2006, 06:49:26 PM »

Nice looking rifle Kombi, the gist of my post was that a k31 any one can make into a sporter since the triggers are already good and the bolt does not need altering and the scope mounts bolt right on no matter which concept you use the rail mount or the scout mount. The rifle is already short so you do not have to cut it and the stock can be left alone like I left mine or modified into a sporter config like they used to do with the milsurps. That said any one that cannot do gunsmithing work could make a reasonable sporter out of one of these with no effort. A mauser on the other hand or a Enfield takes some work or money spent at the gunsmiths if a person cannot do it them selves. Sam3 goes for the mosins. One other thing about the K31 I have seen kits that alter the gun for left hand use with out screwing up the gun now try to do that with any other milsurp. LOL

kombi1976 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 15, 2006, 08:25:33 PM »

The beauty of getting a Swedish Mauser is that so many already have been sporterised i.e bolt handles bent, etc. so you can save yourself some money.
If you think the stock is rubbish, change it.
If the trigger is dogdy switch it over.
Want Leupold instead of a Bushnell? Be my guest.
I've seen everything from stock-as-a-rock military Swedes to all out bench rest rifles and all stages in between for sale usually for quite competitive prices.
When you consider that a Handirifle is the best part of $500, a Stevens 200 is over $650 and a Rem SPS is more than $700, my mate paying $450 for the above rifle with scope and softcase seems an excellent deal.
K31s are accurate for sure, but ammo isn't so easy to come by as are brass, at least here in Oz.
If you like the K31 then go for it.
Geez, I love sporterised Martini rifles!
But it wouldn't be the first project I encourage a new shooter to undertake.

BTW, krochus, what are the 2 rifles shown in your post? A Mosin? A Carcano?