wow, i just had to log in on this one, great thread! two stories that changed my opinion of guns and calibers for ever, and i quit buying guns and ammo anymore. a little background. i've always been very interested in guns, bows, and hunting, but my dad never hunted and growing up in innercity chicago never presented an opportunity to hunt with someone that knew what they were doing but i did maintain a guns and ammo subscription from about age 8 on up. i had this idea from just reading it that i really needed a 7mm or 300 mag to hunt anything out there. i met my bud gary as he was my hunter safety education instructor and before long i was on my way to hunt cow elk with him 3 months later for my first big game hunt!!!!! it was awesome.
gary is a phenomenal shot and about the most knowledgeable firearms person i've ever met, despite having a couple hundred relatives in texas with years upon years of experience. he knows not only how to shoot but a lot about bullet reloading and construction. i was gonna buy a 300 mag but his rec. was to get a 3006, so i did. anyway, he was also one of the few knowledgeable enough to recommend the savage bull barreled 112, but that's another topic. anyway, he had constructed a bunch of barnes x handloads so it was off to the range to learn to shoot. i felt quite confident after the sandbag range session on sighting in and definitely not so with the off hand practice. he went to the truck and brought out a lever action 22. a few range days later with the .22 and i was shooting the .06 great off hand. good instruction had allowed me to skip years upon years of trial and error and bad form. just knowing how to shoot good makes the difference. anyway, according to the old energy requirements for elk i was limited to about 250 yards if i remember properly. anyway, i ended up shooting at a range finder verified 356 yards. as i squeezed off the round she turned towards me and the bullet hit straight on in the chest, actually just to the midline of the r front shoulder. my response in my head was "oh no, at that range that elk's not dead" and with the dash into the trees 5 yards away i felt badly it might not die and we might not recover it. when i lowered the rifle, gary said "good shot" can't do anything about the turn but she's dead. i was somewhat baffled, here the most experienced hunter i have met is telling me something the gun writers said was a bad situation. as we cover the distance in the meadow he was explaining why we shot the bullets we did, and how that bullet would hold together and the elk was done. we found her about 65 yards away, down in the trees and found that bullet had gone in the chest and came out just in front of the elk's rear L leg. never did find it. he then proceeded to explain how a .44 mag kills with such low energy figures and that the key is to be able to have a bullet hang together through some bone, which i hit, and continue onward. beyond that, he taught me one very very valuable lesson. the key is to have a bullet penetrate through bone should you hit it, and then, obviously hit the vitals. a bullet in the vitals kills, a bullet not in the vitals doesn't. the key is to have the marksmanship to hit the vitals and have a bullet that will penetrate.
next, we went to the whittington range in NM a couple years later and were at the sight in range, there was an ole'boy there with his wife shooting a .3030 offhand sitting at one of the benches. at the sight in range there's a couple of affixed silhouettes at very distant ranges. i believe the bear is at something around 600 yards. the guy with the lever action .30/30 was hitting the bear with .30/30 about 4/6 times with iron sights. it was unreal!!!!! i went to talk to the guy and he turned out to be a national champ in cowboy shooting. don't remeber his name but he was great and was sure nice. he gave both of us some tips on shooting with iron sights off hand and so i then began my quest to better my shooting with iron sights seeing what is possible. sure most can't, but at our local range most shooters are horrible, they are blown away when i hit the rams at 200 yards with my FA 83, well, it's not that hard when you know what to do and do it ALL THE TIME. now my oldest son is usually the talk of the range when he knocks down the little chicken silhouettes on the rimfire sil. range with iron sights at around 8/10 times. it's not that he's that great it's just that the average shooter is so dang horrible and that's where i believe these figures for what is appropriate at whatever distance comes from. for the average guy i see at the range a 200 yard shot with a .270 with a good scope from a resting position is a tough shot, most don't know what their round does out the barrel fps wise and have no idea what trajectory they're shooting beyond 100 yards. it's amazing to watch. just getting good instruction i have been able to hand out advice to family members at the range and when hunting and most have been doing it for a very very long time. would a .357 mag at 5 yards with a hardcast bullet penetrate through an elk shoulder, you betcha, and would a 30/30 at 300 yards do the same on a deer, absolutely. the wounded, non humane kills come from hits not in the vitals and i'd bet not a lazzeroni warbird would kill the others in the gut.
now, i sure don't have the exp. hunting deer and elk here some do, but what i do have is a lot of exp. hunting texas hogs on my cousins' farms. i would rate them as harder to kill than deer and the big ones about on par with cow elk. we've killed them at some extremely long ranges with .06's and 300 mags and i've got to see what a hardcast .454 will do at 150. no probs there, but watching my son hit one with a .30/30 from a resting position will at around 200 yards will tell you you certainly don't need 1000 ft/lbs of energy to kill a large hog at that range. the hardcasts he sends through them are leaving a lot of wasted energy in the dirt after they pass through.
