Author Topic: RANGE OF A 30/30? (Read 5568 times)

FATTTTDADDY · « **on:** August 30, 2006, 11:40:33 AM »

TODAY I SOLD my bull barell 243 last year i used a 270 and so on , while looking at my hunting lease this weekend i think a 200 yrd shot would be the longest safe shot i could make is the 30/30 up for this range ?

Keith L · « **Reply #1 on:** August 30, 2006, 12:04:32 PM »

I wouldn't with factory ammo.

.308 Win. · « **Reply #2 on:** August 30, 2006, 04:15:30 PM »

I'd get the Hornady LEVERevolution round and would be able to range to around 275-300 in this caliber. I used to hunt with the .30-30 exclusively and I've killed quite a few head with the Winchester 150 grain hollow points. Most dropped in their tracks with one rolling down a hillside to stop at my feet. I know many people wouldn't shoot to 200 yards with factory ammunition but if you are extraordinarily familiar with the gun and your loads, then take the shot and fire up the smoker!! Nothing like backstrap smoked with apple wood. If God made anything better, he kept it for Himself.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #3 on:** August 31, 2006, 01:45:32 PM »

buddy took an antelope with a 3030 at 245 yards and dropped it but me myself id have to say 200 is about it.

S.S. · « **Reply #4 on:** September 13, 2006, 08:24:54 AM »

Set your scope 2 inches high at 100 yards and you should be fine
if you aim half way up behind the shoulder. I am asuming that you are hunting
Whitetail? Use 150 grain instead of 170s.
I have 3 different 30-30's and would take a 200 Yd shot with any of them.
Same goes for my .35 Rem.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #5 on:** September 13, 2006, 06:23:58 PM »

A Speer 170g can easily be driven to 2200fps. Sighted for Maximum Point Plank Range for a 6" diameter target (the bullet is never more than 3" above or below line of sight), the bullet is 3.0" high at 100 yards, Zero Point is 182 yards and MPBR is 213 yards.

But that is not the end of its effectiveness. At 250 yards it is down only 8" and still carries 987fpe, just shy of the 1,000fpe often touted as adequate for deer.

The 130g and 150g loads fall short in the energy department, although the 150 at 2350fps would be adequate.

Sixgun · « **Reply #6 on:** September 14, 2006, 11:02:33 AM »

The guys shooting Cowboy Rifle Silhouette shoot 200 meter rams with 30-30s all the time. 200 meters is roughley 220 yards. By the way, they do it off hand with iron sights and they have to place their bullets so they dont just hit but knock down the ram.

If they can do it, anyone that is willing to do a little practice, can also. I tend to lean toward bullets on the heavy side. They have a higher sectional density and will still have enough energy at 200 meters to penetrate the animal you are hunting.

I use a 180gr fp from a RCBS mold. With the gas check it weighs about 193gr. I power it with 34 gr of IMR 4831 and a CCI Std rifle primer. Velocity is only about 1860 fps but it will have much more energy at that distance than a 150 gr going 2200 fps at the muzzle

Sixgun

haroldclark · « **Reply #7 on:** September 15, 2006, 06:08:02 PM »

Sixgun declares that Cowboy Shooters shoot out to 200 meters and that is very true. I have three 30-30 rifles and two Contenders in 30-30. Our club has a 500 meter Silhouette range that is my main playground. Last week, I shot the 40 round course with a 30-30 Contender with a 16.25" barrel and a 150 grain Cast Bullet moving out at 1496 feet per second.

I scored 24 targets down out of 40. I had a horrible time at the 220 yard Chickens. I only hit 5 out of 10. I took 9 out of 10 pigs at 330 yards and it just hammers them.

We set the 55 pound Rams back off the Rail so they will fall over with handgun(contenders, Encores and XP types) velocities.

I took 6 Rams and rang 2 (they didn't fall over). The 421 yard Turkeys were dancing in the wind and mirage and I only took 4 out of 10.
I'm going to work on my chicken load before next month.

Picture the velocity at 1500 fps getting to 500 meter Rams with a degree of accuracy. Just speed it up a to 1900 to 2000 fps and it should be a 200 meter shooter on animals.

308Win · « **Reply #8 on:** October 01, 2006, 01:38:28 AM »

As all the writing about the 30-30 Winchester says keep shots at game limited to 150yds.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #9 on:** October 01, 2006, 02:55:39 AM »

Quote from: 308Win on October 01, 2006, 01:38:28 AM

As all the writing about the 30-30 Winchester says keep shots at game limited to 150yds.

Which is one good reason not to believe everything you read. Limiting a .30-30 to 150 yards is just foolishness if you’re hunting deer or antelope. Consider that a .30-30 pushing a Speer 170g bullet to 2200fps has more energy at 150 yards (1271fpe) than a .44 Mag pushing a 240g Speer JSP to 1513fps has at the muzzle (1220fpe). At 250 yards the .30-30 has more energy (987fpe) than the .44 Mag load has at 50 yards (964fpe). If the .30-30 is limited to 150 yards should we then conclude the .44 Mag is limited to spitting distance? I don’t think so!

Hornady claims the .30-30 is a 300-yard deer rifle with their new LeverEvolution ammunition. I don’t know that I would push it that hard with my laods unless everything was absolutely perfect, but tit is certainly doable and the energy would be 867fpe. I can tell you that I shoot at clay pigeons at 300 yards with my .30-30 and although I miss a lot, I rarely miss by much.

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #10 on:** October 02, 2006, 07:32:03 AM »

Coyote's right! There is NO reason the .30-30 cant take deer @ 200-300 yards! As with any firearm, good marksmanship is important.

.30-30's consistently take game well beyond "woods ranges".

LEO · « **Reply #11 on:** October 02, 2006, 01:51:20 PM »

I think the reason most people can't kill a deer at 200 yards with a 30-30 is the same reason that they can't kill it a 200 yards with a 300 super duper ultra magnum. They put to much emphasis on equipment and not enough emphasis on learning how to use the equipment they have. I think a 30-30 would be fine at 200 yards if you spend enough range time to be able to hit effectively at 200 yards from field postions. Most anyone can make a 200 yard shot from a sand bagged bench but when they are sitting against a tree many fall apart. Practice and have a good season.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #12 on:** October 02, 2006, 01:56:38 PM »

Echo4Lima –

Yesterday my brother-in-law (a non-hunter, non-shooter) and hunting buddy went to the range. We started out at 400 yards and after several hours moved up to the 300-yard position.

At 400 yards it only took 3-4 shots to hit the 12” steel gong, the big problem being the crosswind. At 300 yards clay pigeons had a life expectancy of 4-5 shots tops. The load was a 130g Speer at 2512fps – not a hunting load, just something I load for fun. I’ll stick with 170’s for hunting.

Of course, hitting a gong requires a lot less energy than killing a deer. I don’t recommend the .30-30 for 400-yard shots at live game. Nevertheless, it was fun to watch the onlookers when the gong rang again and again with followup shots.

308Win · « **Reply #13 on:** October 03, 2006, 02:24:35 AM »

It's not the range of the 30-30 that can kill a deer,it's the 1000 foot pounds the bullet must maintain,the 30-30 with it's flat nose sheds foot pounds fast.

Sixgun · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2006, 05:16:58 AM »

I just ran the figures on my ballistic calculator. With a flat nose bullet going 2200 fps, temp 65 degrees at an altitude of 5000 feet, which is where I usually hunt, I could attempt a shot out to 250 yards and still have sufficient energy to make a clean kill. With a 200 yard sight in, the bullet would be 8 inches high at 100 yards and 10 inches low at 250 yards. Velocity at 250 yards is 1602fps and energy is 969lbs.

Could I do this with confidence? You bet! I was the 2005 State Champion in Cowboy Rifle Silhouette in my state. I did that with my model 94 30-30. The range of the rams is 200 meters, which is about 220 yards. All shooting is done off hand with metallic sights. I regularly shoot 8 out of ten rams, in a match. I do it outside, in the wind, which can get pretty strong. The rams silhouette is smaller than a mule deer, more like a small spike buck.

From the looks of this, I should get rid of my 338, 308's, 30-06's, 243, and just pack my favorite packing carbine, my pre-64 model 94 30-30.

Sixgun

B_Koes · « **Reply #15 on:** October 03, 2006, 08:05:23 AM »

So you're saying you always hit the rams in the vitals??

I use the whole target from nose to tail and more than occasionally I manage to neuter a ram.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 03, 2006, 12:27:21 PM »

I have to agree with some of the other posters here. Just because you can hit something at 200 or 300 yards does not make it a 200 or 300 yard round. Does it have enough energy to make a humane kill and are you in the vitals 100% of the time. If you can't answer yes to either of these questions, no it is not good enough then. 200 yards for a 30-30 is pushing it's limit. JMHO.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #17 on:** October 03, 2006, 01:38:42 PM »

Quote from: Redhawk1 on October 03, 2006, 12:27:21 PM

I have to agree with some of the other posters here. Just because you can hit something at 200 or 300 yards does not make it a 200 or 300 yard round. Does it have enough energy to make a humane kill and are you in the vitals 100% of the time. If you can't answer yes to either of these questions, no it is not good enough then. 200 yards for a 30-30 is pushing it's limit. JMHO.

Redhawk1-

Just as a matter of comparison, my .30-30 load (170g Speer at 2260fps) delivers 1189fpe at 200 yards while my .44 Mag revolver (240g Speer JSP @ 1513fps) delivers 1220fpe at the muzzle and drops below 1189fpe at around the 6 yard line.

Hitting the vitals at 200 or 300 yards is a whole ‘nother ballgame – it has everything to do with an individual’s skill and nothing to do with the capability of the .30-30 itself.

For what it is worth, I would not attempt a 300-yard shot at game with the .30-30 unless everything was perfect – just as it would have to be with my .308 or any other rifle. Even then I would think long and hard before using the .30-30 at that range and would probably pass. My load would deliver 921fpe and that will do your average deer quite easily, but that’s well below the energy I feel comfortable with. 200 yards? No heartburn here.

308Win · « **Reply #18 on:** October 03, 2006, 02:11:30 PM »

Sixgun,Wow your the best I ever did hear about I tell ya.Where did you learn to shoot I bet you starting shooting vary young like 4 or 5?I wish one day I'm as good as you but I think I'll have to burn allot of ammo trying.

VTDW · « **Reply #19 on:** October 04, 2006, 12:40:17 AM »

CH and Echo got it right!! With the LeverEvolution ammo the thuty-thuty is a legitimate 200 yard rifle and more. BUT...you gotta do your part and practice.

Dave

308Win · « **Reply #20 on:** October 04, 2006, 03:41:51 AM »

Guess all I need doing is getting them evolution bullets and I'll be a long shot shooter.This just might be a silly question I don't know,but how many shots do you get at a Buck Deer,just in case I miss a few times?

Sixgun · « **Reply #21 on:** October 04, 2006, 04:03:29 AM »

Well guys, I gotta fess up. Lots of times I nuter a ram too and sometimes I hit the nose or horn or some other part. But, I learned the old addage, "Aim small, hit small". If you aim at a small place on the ram, instead of aiming at the whole thing, you will find that you normally hit about the same place on the ram, or chicken, or pig, and espically turkeys. If you can hit high on the rams, it will save you some ringers on hard set rams.

My aim point on the ram is the belly line where the front leg touches the belly. I sight in so that the point of impact is about 8 inches above there. On a good day, most of my hits will be in the top portion of the shoulder.

Another thing I do is practice on a 3X5 card painted with florcent orange paint. You can see it pretty good at 200 meters and you may be surprized how often you can hit it, if you have a good accurate load worked up.

The other thing is to practice. I practice every Thursday night and if I am in a slump I go out extra times and try to figure out what I am doing wrong. I shoot with several different clubs at their monthly silhouette matches. It surprizes me how many people only shoot at the matches and never practrice and then wonder why they never win a match.

I love shooting the silhouette games. I shoot as much as I can and more than my wife wants me to. I loose more matches than I win, but we can all get better. This year I didn't get a chance to shoot the Cowboy Rifle State Match but I won the Hunters Pistol State Match with a 48/60 and the Pistol Cartridge Cowboy Rifle State Match with a 55/60.

Sixgun

Keith L · « **Reply #22 on:** October 04, 2006, 05:11:59 AM »

The same thing can be said for those who only shoot during hunting season. A few years ago I didn't hunt because I had been ill and was unable to go to the range for a few months. One of my hunting buddies said that I should go because my gun was accurate. I knew that, but I didn't know that I was.

S.S. · « **Reply #23 on:** October 04, 2006, 08:02:06 AM »

I really do not know who came up with the 1000 FP of energy
it takes to kill a whitetail, But apparently they didn't hunt many of them !
I have never encountered a Whitetail that a .30-30 would not have killed at 200
yards.. 200 yards simply is not that far away! I am glad I do not put a whole lot
of stock into what I read in the gun rags ! I would be afraid to hunt Field Mice with anything short of a 45-70 !

308Win · « **Reply #24 on:** October 04, 2006, 09:56:04 AM »

S.Sumner,It's always fascinating reading the postings of an experienced hunter/outdoors man.How many Buck mounts do you have hanging?I look for antler sheds in the spring and hang them on the barn,got a few 8s and 6s but mostly 4s I don't hang spike sheds.Do you hunt the Doe Deer also or just the old gray snout magazine cover Bucks?Final question I don't want to inconvenience you but I must ask.Do you use a scope on them 200yd+ shots or just the good old iron sights?I'll bet a load of feed corn you use the irons!!

VTDW · « **Reply #25 on:** October 04, 2006, 12:58:30 PM »

Dee · « **Reply #26 on:** October 04, 2006, 03:51:19 PM »

s.sumner, I agree with you. Although my 3030 is a Winchester Model 94, bought new in 1957, (sorry it ain't a Marlin) I can consistantly hit 1 gallon plastic jugs full of water at 270 yards. In other words, I don't miss much. I try to practice at least one or two shots a week at different ranges, 270 being one of them. The reaction of the jug hit with the 3030 is not that much different than when I shoot them with my 2506 using a TNT 87gr hollow point. I shoot a 150gr jacketed soft point at 2400fps out of my 3030, with a Lyman receiver sight, and the deer, along with these big North Central Tx. hogs don't seem to realize they are shot with an antique, and out dated cartridge. When I was younger I used to read those gun magazines and believed a lot of it. Now I'm a lot older and realized that they are selling magazines and guns. Everyone needs to check the thickness of a whitetail deer rib and realized it ain't that hard to punch thru. An elk, or buffalo rib ain't that much different either.
Tom Horn made some very long shots with one. That's right! Hollywood lied. He made those shots with a 3030 Model 94 Winchester.
If you want to read about ole Tom and his 3030, just log onto Wyoming Tales and Trails.

S.S. · « **Reply #27 on:** October 05, 2006, 04:21:31 AM »

The only reason I use a scope is for low light conditions.
And although I do sense a HINT of sarcasm in your post,
Yes, I am capable of making a 200 yard shot with open sights.
Anyone who is not should practice more on their marksmanship.
As I said, two football fields just is not a long distance.
I have had extensive training with firearms and would put my
abilities up against "almost" anyones. Have you Ever been in the Military?
We fired at Four, Five and Six Hundred meters with open sights.
At those ranges I hit a lot more than I missed and there were Guys
who put me to shame at those ranges. They seldom missed!
The Gunny Sgt. who trained me was the best long range rifle shot
I have ever encountered.
All it takes is a lot of practice.
If troops could not put rounds on target at 200 meters, they would
not even qualify due to poor marksmanship skill.
I hunt for meat, I am not in any way a sport
hunter. No animal "REMAINS" grace my walls at all..
I do make things such as knife handles out of the horns though.
I have taken only 3 does in my life. Killing off your Doe heard to
make your bucks move around more in search of them has always
been kind of foolish to me. Will I take one if my freezer is empty
though? Absolutely.

308Win · « **Reply #28 on:** October 05, 2006, 06:35:27 AM »

S.Sumner,Oh yes I was in the ARMY the US ARMY Infantry that is,not drafted ether but RA that's Regular ARMY I joined!We qualified out to 500yds first with M1s then came the wonderful M14s,never pulled Maggie's drawer's once then came that McNamara rifle.But I wont talk bad about the McNamara M16s I'm not looking to start a war with all the people who love them.You know S.Sumner you put me in mind of my old Uncle Steward he's dead now, but he was a sharp shooter also.Uncle Stew got drunk one day while hunting he hunted with a 32 Special Winchester 94 we still have his rifle.Anyhow we had a" Pattz Barn Cleaner"sign about 15"x15" on the tractor barn,he told me he could hit it I told him he couldn't,I was just a boy at the time and we were a cornfield away from the barn,well over 300yds.Uncle Stew laid his rifle on a barbed wire fence post and shot six times that was all the bullets he had.We walked up to the barn Uncle Stew hit that sign 6 times.The next day when my dad went to spread manure on the hay fields,he found his tractor was shot up.As for meat we have a New York State nuisance permit and shoot Deer all year giving most of the meat to needy organisations and soup kitchens.Keep them in the 10ring!!

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #29 on:** October 05, 2006, 06:49:59 PM »

Quote from: S.Sumner on October 04, 2006, 08:02:06 AM

...who came up with the 1000 FP of energy it takes to kill a whitetail, ... never encountered a Whitetail that a .30-30 would not have killed at 200 yards.. 200 yards simply is not that far away! ...!

You are correct it doesn't take 1000fpe to kill a whitetail. Even if it did, the .30-30 is more than a 200-yard rifle. My 170g load delivers 1000fpe out to 265 yards. You are also correct that 200 yards isn't that far. The same load, when zeroed for Maximum Point Blank Range for a 6" target has a MPBR of 218 yards.