308Win –
Hunters shooting deer in the guts or hams with a .30-30 says much about the hunters and nothing about the cartridge they are using. Sadly, the same thing happens with every cartridge.
And who said anything about “off hand” shooting? That, too, has nothing to do with the capability of the cartridge and everything to do with the capability of the shooter. I personally haven’t taken an offhand shot for many years and don’t plan to do so any time soon, even though I practice offhand out to 200 yards at the range. That’s why I have bipods, shooting sticks, and knees and make good use of trees, rocks, backpacks and the good old sitting and prone positions. I also know I’m not the only one that refuses to use offhand hunting shots at more than rock throwing distance – regardless of the cartridge used.
While I don’t know anyone that can “blindly shoot a 22 in the air and hit a sparrow”, I managed to hit one on the wing as a kid with my Daisy BB gun. The only pheasant I’ve ever shot was on the wing with Granddad’s .22 rifle. My eyes were wide open in both cases. Uncle used that same rifle to shoot a clay pigeon in flight. Don’t know the distance, but he had thrown it himself, Granddad and Dad had both missed with their shotguns, and Uncle got it after it had passed the third Belen grain bin. Uncle had gone into the house to retrieve the .22 rifle, had loaded it and leaned it against the fence, then called the shot before he threw the pigeon. Saw a video once of an exhibition shooter throwing aspirins into the air and hitting them with a .22. Aspirins, as in plural, as in two at a time and hitting both with one shot each. But those things also have nothing to do with the capability of a .30-30.
To claim “nobody is going to put a bullet in that 9"drop dead zone with them from 150 yds out to 300 yds” is just ignorance in action. I shoot clay pigeons at 200 yards with my .30-30. When the wind isn’t blowing or is constant they are pretty easy targets. I do, of course, use a scope. At 300 yards the pigeons are a little safer and my hit ratio drops to about 1 in 5, but the misses aren’t by much. Dave, my hunting buddy, shoots the 12” steel gong at 200 yards offhand with his .30-30 using iron sights. Balloons at 200 are another favorite target of his. Hitting the 8” steel gong at 200 yards with a rest and my scoped .30-30 is no challenge – even my girls can do it, and they don’t shoot much. At 300 yards my hit ratio is about 90%. No, you’re not likely to see a Marlin 336 or Winchester 94 on the benchrest circuit, but many of the modern rifles (mine was made in 1989) shoot quite well. In fact, it isn’t unusual for bolt gun shooters to have problems hitting the 8” gong at 200 yards when we’re doing so regularly with the lever guns.
My .30-30 hunting load uses a 170g Speer and H4895 and will put 5 shots into 2.0” at 100 yards. It is my hunting load because it has the best velocity and is “accurate enough”. According to my load notes my other 170g Speer loads shoot 0.85” (3 shots, Varget); 0.90” (3 shots, W748); 1.85” (3 shots, different charge of W748); 1.0” (5 shots, Benchmark); and 1.95” (3 shots, BL-C(2)). Do you really believe none of these loads can hit a 9” kill zone at 150 yards?
I see you subscribe to the concept of 1000 foot-pounds as a good minimum for deer (“For a humane kill with the bullet in the "kill zone" so the Deer doesn't "run off" 1000 foot pounds minimum yes.”) That’s fine, and its probably a good number for big deer, but it is also more than needed for many species. For the record, my .30-30 hunting load doesn’t drop below 1000fpe until after the bullet crosses the 265 yard line.
If hunting Colorado elk, deer and antelope for the last 25 years makes me a “keyboard hunter”, so be it. My last deer, a forkhorn mulie, was taken at 197 lasered yards from a sitting position. The next day I took a nice 6x6 bull elk at 213 lasered yards from a kneeling position. Both were well-placed one-shot kills. The buck went about 5 yards uphill, the bull just waited a couple seconds and tipped over. The rifle used in both cases was my Marlin 1895 in .45-70. My Marlins in .30-30 or .375 Win would have yielded the same results.
All my hunting rifles, bolt and levergun, get zeroed for Maximum Point Blank Range for a 6” diameter target. That means the bullet is never more than 3” above or below line of sight from the muzzle to MPBR. For my Marlins MPBR is as follows:
204 yards w/ 1904fpe, Marlin 1895 (.45-70), 350g North Fork @ 2183fps (Leupold 2-7x33)
205 yards w/ 1196fpe, Marlin 375 (.375 Win), 220g Hornady FN @ 2230fps (Leupold 4x)
218 yards w/ 1135fpe, Marlin 336 (.30-30), 170g Speer FSP @ 2260fps (Leupold 2-7x33)
While you may not be comfortable taking 200-yard shots with a .30-30, the .30-30 is certainly capable of clean kills at that range.
