Pro hunter vs Encore?

[coop2564]

What improvements did they make that will help accuracy and are not just cosmetic? I have a handi but have always wanted a encore, but some friends were having more accuracy problems with the encore than I had with my handi, so I never took the high$ plunge.  It seem all these break action single shots are prone for accuracy problems no matter how pretty you make them.   Does the Pro hunter address any of these inherit issues or is it just dressed up for the prom with the same ole problems. When I say accuracy problems I'm not talking 6'' groups but the 3 guys I know all are getting around 1.5'' to 3''  groups and most groups string vert or dia  and I see the same thing in my handi.  I know a lot of you get better groups I dont know how my little group of single shooters got shafted but none of us can put 3 shots in 1.5'' group consistently and we have spent $100's on shells. We've tried orings, RTV bedding nothing helps.  The funny thing is my huntsman barrel and one of the guys has a ML barrel for his encore and they both shoot great and consistant groups its just the deer cal. my handi is 308   theirs are 7 mag, 30-06 and 308. So Back to my question is the Pro hunter any more accurate and why? Is my group of shooters just unlucky or any of you others see simular results? Were thinking the vib and freq of the deer cal are the reasons and the way the breakactions with the disjointed forends are made a 2'' avg group is about the best we can do. Any opinions appreciated. 

[Grumulkin]

I have two Encore and one Contender frame with multiple barrels and don't have accuracy problems with any of them.  The two Encore frames have had trigger jobs but nothing else special.  In most of the rifle calibers I shoot, I get from 0.75 to 1.5 MOA.  I don't think there are accuracy issues with the Encore.  The Pro Hunter has some nice features but I would expect the accuracy to be comparable to the standard Encore.

[Redhawk1]

I would love to meat all these guys with problems with accuracy from there Encores. I have 5 Encore Frames, one that is a Pro-hunter 50 Cal M/L and one 50 Cal and a 45 Cal M/L and a 7mm08 and a 22 250. All are deadly accurate.  I sold two of my other Encore 50 Cal muzzleloader's to my buddy for himself and his wife and they both love the Encores and the great accuracy they produce. I know quit a few people that also own Encores and they don't report any problems with accuracy.

Both of my 50 Cal Encores one is the pro-hunter and they both shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards. So I don't know if I can say that the Pro-hunter is more accurate, but I got it for all the other cosmetic parts.  But I can't help you in your quest for your answer.

[coop2564]

We have a good shooting range and rest.  Several of us have bolt rifles and shoot consistant groups with them although still no sub moa groups. And our ML barrels shoot great.  None of the encore guys have extra barrels to compare but I have a 243 barrel as well as the 308 for my handi and there about the same once in a while I'll get about 1.5'' then next group might be 2.5''. Sometimes two shots might be touching and the 3rd 4'' away there's jsut no consistancy. Same with their encores. We've killed deer with them most of our shots are under 150yds. But sure wish I could have more confidence in them I love the look and want one bad. I'll probably windup getting one because I cant seem to get it out of my mind. Just wish I had more positive experiences with them.

[Grumulkin]

I don't really know about the marksmanship talents of your friends.  There are some things to consider:

1.  Do they reload?  I do so I custom tailor my ammunition to the gun I'm shooting.
2.  Have they tried different ammunition brands?  Three inch groups is the best some ammunition is good for.
3.  Are the weight of bullets used the best for the twist rates of the barrel?  For instance, the .224 caliber centerfire offerings of Thompson/Center are all 1:12 twist and will not stabilize most heavy for caliber bullets adequately.
4.  What size groups are you and your friends capable of with accurate bolt action rifles?

[Bullseye]

Other than Redhawk, I believe some people do have accuracy issues with their Encores.

My opinion is some of the problems come from the forearm attachment method.  In my opinon that is why the Contender and the Encore Muzzleloader barrels seem to shoot better than the barrels where the forearms screw straight into the barrel without the standoffs either in the dovetail in the case of the Contender or screwed to the barrel in the case of the Encore MM.

I only have two Encore barrels other than my muzzleloader and they shoot good and are plenty acceptable for their use, but I have some Contender barrels and a 30-06 Remington Pump (which are not supposed to be accurate) that will outshoot the Encores.  I guess what I am saying is that I agree with you, the accuracy good, but not what you would expect.

I guess the solution is to buy all our guns where Redhawk does, because all the ones he owns are shooters.

[Lawful Larry]

Other than Redhawk, I believe some people do have accuracy issues with their Encores.

My opinion is some of the problems come from the forearm attachment method.  In my opinon that is why the Contender and the Encore Muzzleloader barrels seem to shoot better than the barrels where the forearms screw straight into the barrel without the standoffs either in the dovetail in the case of the Contender or screwed to the barrel in the case of the Encore MM.

I only have two Encore barrels other than my muzzleloader and they shoot good and are plenty acceptable for their use, but I have some Contender barrels and a 30-06 Remington Pump (which are not supposed to be accurate) that will outshoot the Encores.  I guess what I am saying is that I agree with you, the accuracy good, but not what you would expect.

I guess the solution is to buy all our guns where Redhawk does, because all the ones he owns are shooters.

Well said Bullseye.

You could never prove any problems with any TC product when it comes to Redhawk1.  You would think by now, with all the people posting problems with the Encore, that he would have to admit where there is smoke - there must be fire!!!  Just as Coop2564stated about the grouping problem, it seems that many people have this problem.  But it would seem that some people will not admit that any gun with a spit stock could have this problem.  Sometimes I think he has stock in the company. 

I personally am getting tired of his attitude towards people that have problems with the Encore.   This is typical of his responses:
" I would love to meat all these guys with problems with accuracy from there Encores. " 

Well sir if you stop belittling people in your posts and read this wire often, you can see all the people that are having problems.  People are getting tired of hearing all your praises for a product they are going nuts trying to get to shoot a decent group with!  What they need is helpful hints or support for their problems.  If you have never experienced any problems then your responses are meaningless to them and give not help or support.  My old man always said, "Son if you don't have anything usefull to contribute to the conversation, keep your quiet and don't confuse the issue."

When I talk about my problems, I can sympathize with them and compare notes.   See my point???  I hate it when there is confrontation.  This wire is a good forum for much information on subjects that are of interest to many. 

[Redhawk1]

Sure there are problems that some people have, some are shooter related and some are legitimate problems and T/C takes care of them.  I had a stock split on me also, on my Encore, why, I tightened the stock bolt to tight and caused my own problem. The reason I post that I would like to meet these people is so I could actually see the problems they are having. I have helped quit a few people that have had issues with there Encores. Quit a few times it has been the shooters themselves and other have been problems with scope mounts and just load development problems. Some people just can't get use to the stock on there Encores.

As Bullseys stated, I think some problems come from the forearm attachment method, which I have solved with thin washers between the forearm and barrel. Also, I have seen a lot of guys rest there barrels on sand bags and place the barrel in different locations on the bag and there groups were off. I rest my guns on the forearms, not the barrels. Harmonics will affect accuracy also.  Consistency in gun placement while shooting can make a difference. That is another reason I have 5 Encore frames and a barrel designated for each, I get a Encore dialed in and I don't change anything and I don't swap barrels, I keep all the factors the same. That is why I get consistently good shooting Encores. It is not just Encores that people need to set up properly, but any rifle. What happens is, some people just don't want to put the time and effort into there shooting.

Lawful Larry, like me or hate me, it does not matter to me. I am very passant about my shooting and hunting. I may come across as a bit harsh, but that is just my nature. No Sir I don't have stock in T/C but I wish I did. In my opinion T/C is one of the finest gun makers we have today.

[coop2564]

We do get consistant groups with our bolt actions, there not sub moa but 1.5 solid, depending on bullet but there consistant, we cant get that with the single shots, doesn't matter if its my handi or thier encores We might shoot 1.5'' group let the barrel cool and get a 3.5'' group with the same load. That's what drives us crazy on consistancy.  The confusing part is I can put my muzzle loader barrel on and chris can put his on his encore and we get great consistant groups. Its just the rifle barrels.  We dont have any small cal such as .223 or so to test. But me and Chris both love are ML's just wish the rifles would shoot the same.

[manofthe45]

What I don't understand is the constant controversy pro-hunter vs. encore.  The pro-hunter is an encore.  an improved encore, but an encore none the less.  I shoot both the old and the new pro-hunter barrels in my encore.  Some shoot Great and Don't kill me here Redhawk but some not so good.  The thing is if it looks like a skunk and smells like a scunk it is a scunk.  I can understand a G-2 vs Encore debate, but the prohunter is still an encore the only choice is whether you want to pay the money for the extra's

[Keith L]

You should have been here for the G-2 vs Contender debates...

[Redhawk1]

What I don't understand is the constant controversy pro-hunter vs. encore.  The pro-hunter is an encore.  an improved encore, but an encore none the less.  I shoot both the old and the new pro-hunter barrels in my encore.  Some shoot Great and Don't kill me here Redhawk but some not so good.  The thing is if it looks like a skunk and smells like a scunk it is a scunk.  I can understand a G-2 vs Encore debate, but the prohunter is still an encore the only choice is whether you want to pay the money for the extra's

I agree with you about the Pro-hunter and the Encore are the same, the Pro-hunter just has some up grades.

[nomosendero]

After a trip to the factory my 50MZ is shooting well. TC told me that there was a burr where the QLA ends & the rifling begins. This is a case where clearly the Encore had a problem, after all, TC admitted it. But as said before they were willing to fix the problem. I believe the forearm can be dealt with, and is alot of the problem. I saw a link dealing with this before I became a member a couple of years ago, if anyone knows where this is, please provide the link. I will be buying some barrels soon, I would not do that if I did not think I could make them shoot. Another thing many overlook is the failure to load ammo where the end of the case fits flush with the end of the barrel.
MOST factory ammo doesn't do this & you should load with the Encore in mind & not reload ammo like you would for a bolt gun. The same reloading procedures work for a Handi.
I will tell you this though for sure. If I can't change barrels without problems then I will get rid of the Encore, the ability to change barrels is THE main reason for me to own one. Being compact & having a shorter overall length is another reason, but to me not enough of one.
A Pro Hunter will cost $800.00 or more, I can buy a used Rem rifle, get a custom barrel & bed the stock and have a 1/4" gun that shoots the same every day within $100-150 of that price. Or I can buy a new Sendero within $100.00 and skim bed it & again have a 1/4-1/2" rifle or I can get a fat barreled Savage for even less & get this accuracy. So for me the ability to change barrels is crucial, not to fault anyone who want a bunch of frames & separate rifles, but I would imagine that alot of people feel like me on this one, but to each his own.
Anyway, when I get the barrels & a Midway forearm that I will get pillarbedded, I will post the results.

[Lawful Larry]

I also agree that the two are the same.  My experience is with the Encore and an ongoing one at that.  I have noticed that any gun with a split stock can have accuracy problems do to the two stock concept.  I have seen Ruger #1, NEF and even Savage 99's have this same problem.  I don't want to sound like I am throwing bombs at the TC company.  Far from it.

I love my G2 contender and six barrels.  Everyone is a tack driver.  That is what made me buy the Encore in ML and then a .30-06 barrel.  The ML shoots great, but the problems are with the .30-06.  Hopefully I will hear from the factory on the .30-06 barrel I sent them and I will pass it on to the wire. 

My only beef with the company on the new improvements is the fact that I think they are doing a diservice to all the folks that have bought all those old model Encores.  If we want to enjoy these new improvements we must buy this new gun at a very increased price.  Guys I don't know about you, but I can't afford to go out and buy this new gun if I already have an Encore. 

Now it would be nice if the company would make these new improvements available to us old model Encore faithful owners who have supported the company with our business.  Now doesn't that sound, fair? 

By the way are these two guns interchangeable???  Will a Pro Hunter barrel fit on an old Encore and visa versa?  How about the stocks?

[manofthe45]

yes they will both fit  I shoot prohunters from my older encore I also purchased the flex stock for my ML

[Redhawk1]

I also agree that the two are the same.  My experience is with the Encore and an ongoing one at that.  I have noticed that any gun with a split stock can have accuracy problems do to the two stock concept.  I have seen Ruger #1, NEF and even Savage 99's have this same problem.  I don't want to sound like I am throwing bombs at the TC company.  Far from it.

I love my G2 contender and six barrels.  Everyone is a tack driver.  That is what made me buy the Encore in ML and then a .30-06 barrel.  The ML shoots great, but the problems are with the .30-06.  Hopefully I will hear from the factory on the .30-06 barrel I sent them and I will pass it on to the wire. 

My only beef with the company on the new improvements is the fact that I think they are doing a diservice to all the folks that have bought all those old model Encores.  If we want to enjoy these new improvements we must buy this new gun at a very increased price.  Guys I don't know about you, but I can't afford to go out and buy this new gun if I already have an Encore. 

Now it would be nice if the company would make these new improvements available to us old model Encore faithful owners who have supported the company with our business.  Now doesn't that sound, fair? 

By the way are these two guns interchangeable???  Will a Pro Hunter barrel fit on an old Encore and visa versa?  How about the stocks?

No, I don't think it is fair. When car makers come out with improvements on new cars, do you have the option to get your older style car up graded?? NO. You have to buy the new car. I bought a Dell computer 5 years ago, wow, look how many up grades Dell has done in the last 5 years. Should Dell have to up grade my computer because I have been a faithful owner and supporter of the company with my business?

Also the Pro hunter can interchange with all the old Encore barrels or frames.

[nomosendero]

I also agree that the two are the same.  My experience is with the Encore and an ongoing one at that.  I have noticed that any gun with a split stock can have accuracy problems do to the two stock concept.  I have seen Ruger #1, NEF and even Savage 99's have this same problem.  I don't want to sound like I am throwing bombs at the TC company.  Far from it.

I love my G2 contender and six barrels.  Everyone is a tack driver.  That is what made me buy the Encore in ML and then a .30-06 barrel.  The ML shoots great, but the problems are with the .30-06.  Hopefully I will hear from the factory on the .30-06 barrel I sent them and I will pass it on to the wire. 

My only beef with the company on the new improvements is the fact that I think they are doing a diservice to all the folks that have bought all those old model Encores.  If we want to enjoy these new improvements we must buy this new gun at a very increased price.  Guys I don't know about you, but I can't afford to go out and buy this new gun if I already have an Encore. 

Now it would be nice if the company would make these new improvements available to us old model Encore faithful owners who have supported the company with our business.  Now doesn't that sound, fair? 

By the way are these two guns interchangeable???  Will a Pro Hunter barrel fit on an old Encore and visa versa?  How about the stocks?

No, I don't think it is fair. When car makers come out with improvements on new cars, do you have the option to get your older style car up graded?? NO. You have to buy the new car. I bought a Dell computer 5 years ago, wow, look how many up grades Dell has done in the last 5 years. Should Dell have to up grade my computer because I have been a faithful owner and supporter of the company with my business?

Also the Pro hunter can interchange with all the old Encore barrels or frames.

Yea, I don't see the problem here. All companies if they want to survive @ better yet grow have to make improvements & the fact that the barrels/stocks will interchange mean to me that TC is trying to take care of their customer base & at the same time bring improvements.

[Guns4570]

Let me see, R. Reagan was into capitalism.  Consumers have money to buy goods and services, so entrepreneurs make new things to attract consumers money.  Pro Hunter is such an item.  So some of us are willing spend our money for the new PH and some aren't.  Its that simple.  If you have an older Encore be happy with it and don't complain abou the cost of the new version.  I am willing to pay for the engraving on the receiver.  I frankly like a 28" barrel.  Any barrel costs more as the length goes up.  Try to rebarrel a custom barrel, it costs for barrels over 26", you pay by the inch.  I wasn't willing to lay down my money for an Encore until the PH came to market.  I will now enjoy my PH 25-06 and probably add a 500 S&W barrel for hogs some time this fall.  So lets enjoy our Encores and discuss ways to improve the product not complain about the market price of this or that.  I myself want a custom C. Sharps 1875 too, but that will requrie a bit more saving.  Oh I could just buy a Pedersoli repro and scratch the itch faster.  I will wait for the one I want. 

[Redhawk1]

Let me see, R. Reagan was into capitalism.  Consumers have money to buy goods and services, so entrepreneurs make new things to attract consumers money.  Pro Hunter is such an item.  So some of us are willing spend our money for the new PH and some aren't.  Its that simple.  If you have an older Encore be happy with it and don't complain abou the cost of the new version.  I am willing to pay for the engraving on the receiver.  I frankly like a 28" barrel.  Any barrel costs more as the length goes up.  Try to rebarrel a custom barrel, it costs for barrels over 26", you pay by the inch.  I wasn't willing to lay down my money for an Encore until the PH came to market.  I will now enjoy my PH 25-06 and probably add a 500 S&W barrel for hogs some time this fall.  So lets enjoy our Encores and discuss ways to improve the product not complain about the market price of this or that.  I myself want a custom C. Sharps 1875 too, but that will requrie a bit more saving.  Oh I could just buy a Pedersoli repro and scratch the itch faster.  I will wait for the one I want. 

 Well said, I know what you mean about the C Sharps. I looked at the Pedersoli repro, but I got the Shiloh Sharps, Yes it was 2 1/2 time more money, but well worth it in my opinion.

[manofthe45]

I have to say I am glad that people have stopped discussing the encore and the prohunter as two differant guns.  It reallt is only a matter of preferance and how much your willing to spend.  Me I 'll stick with my older encore and buy prohunter barrels as needed  ie.. as wanted, but I will not badmouth those willing to drop their hard earned money on what they want.. to often these debates become personal assualts on people because of differant views.  So buy what you like shoot what you like and shot it as often as possible.

[redawg]

to often these debates become personal assualts on people because of differant views.  So buy what you like shoot what you like and shot it as often as possible.

Well said!  I agree wholeheartedly!

[Lawful Larry]

Hey Coop2564,
Well as usual the original question was dropped and the post was hyjacked. 

It would seem that the new Encore hasn't been around long enough for folks to start pulling out their hair yet.  Give it time and wait.  I have seen many people having accuracy problems and I don't think they will go away too soon.  Until then I would go with your gut instinct and use the past experience your have encountered. 

As for me, I will stick with my bolt action, leverguns and pump long guns.  They have yet to fail me and I will go with a proven thing. 

[Redhawk1]

Hey Coop2564,
Well as usual the original question was dropped and the post was hyjacked. 

It would seem that the new Encore hasn't been around long enough for folks to start pulling out their hair yet.  Give it time and wait.  I have seen many people having accuracy problems and I don't think they will go away too soon.  Until then I would go with your gut instinct and use the past experience your have encountered. 

As for me, I will stick with my bolt action, leverguns and pump long guns.  They have yet to fail me and I will go with a proven thing. 

Way to stick to the topic...

[manofthe45]

     So Thompson Center is responsible for my premature grays and early balding head.  I always thought figuring out a new gun was the funnest part of shooting.  personally most of my boltguns, lever actions, and pumps have given be more trouble than any of my single shots ever have.  But I think for now I'll keep blaming the baldness and grays on my old lady and keep buying as many of these pain in the ass, worthless barrels as I can behind her back.  Maybe I'll go out tommorrow and buy my four mounth old her first contender.  any barrel suggestions for her.

[Davemuzz]

It would seem that the new Encore hasn't been around long enough for folks to start pulling out their hair yet.  Give it time and wait.  I have seen many people having accuracy problems and I don't think they will go away too soon.  Until then I would go with your gut instinct and use the past experience your have encountered. 

As for me, I will stick with my bolt action, leverguns and pump long guns.  They have yet to fail me and I will go with a proven thing. 

Ok LL. This is America and you can stick with your bolt actions, lever's and pumps. But what I don't get is why do you come to a T\C forum just to complain about T\C's to people who obviously like T\C's? If you don't like T\C's then go to another forum and post away about bolt actions, pumps, and lever's.

Dave.

[nomosendero]

Maybe if I pulled my hair out it would quit turning gray! 

[Keith L]

Mine fell out all by itself.  Instead of grey now it is pink.

[nomosendero]

 

[Davemuzz]

Hair!!!? You guys got hair??? Awww man!!!

[Lawful Larry]

It would seem that the new Encore hasn't been around long enough for folks to start pulling out their hair yet.  Give it time and wait.  I have seen many people having accuracy problems and I don't think they will go away too soon.  Until then I would go with your gut instinct and use the past experience your have encountered. 

As for me, I will stick with my bolt action, leverguns and pump long guns.  They have yet to fail me and I will go with a proven thing. 

Ok LL. This is America and you can stick with your bolt actions, lever's and pumps. But what I don't get is why do you come to a T\C forum just to complain about T\C's to people who obviously like T\C's? If you don't like T\C's then go to another forum and post away about bolt actions, pumps, and lever's.

Dave.

Ya know Dave a mind is a terrible thing to waist.  If you would stop kissing Redhawk's butt long enough to come up with an original thought we could have a dialog. 

I come to this site for information and not idle chit chat.  I have had more then enough problems with my Encore and thinking I may be able to pick up some insight that may of help to me. 

Now as to my statements.  If you would read them you will notice that I do not condem T/C.  I praise their Contenders.  My only problems are with the Encore family of guns.  If you don't like my thoughts on a subject, you don't have to jump me and belittle my thoughts.  All it does is show how ignorant you can be. 

Actions such as thesecan give a site a bad name.  I am pretty sure that if we were standing in the same room, this gang up wouldn't be taking place.  They have a name for actions like this; they call it cowardess. 

So hammer away, for I am sure that will happen, but all you will do is show an ugly side to this place.