Author Topic: Close The Borders Now!  (Read 2433 times)

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Offline rockbilly

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Close The Borders Now!
« on: September 01, 2006, 03:10:14 PM »
This is not new, several other Law Enforcement Officers here in Texas have expressed concern over the number on non-Mexican illegal immigrants entering the country.  More justification for writing your elected officials and expressing your views on this issue.  Close the borders now! 
 
Texas Sheriffs Say Terrorists Entering US from Mexico
By Kevin Mooney
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
August 21, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - The chief law enforcement officers of several Texas counties along the southern U.S. border warn that Arabic-speaking individuals are learning Spanish and integrating into Mexican culture before paying smugglers to sneak them into the United States. The Texas Sheriffs' Border Coalition believes those individuals are likely terrorists and that drug cartels and some members of the Mexican military are helping them get across the border.

Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez of Zapata County, Texas told Cybercast News Service that Iranian currency, military badges in Arabic, jackets and other clothing are among the items that have been discovered along the banks of the Rio Grande River. The sheriff also said there are a substantial number of individuals crossing the southern border into the U.S. who are not Mexican. He described the individuals in question as well-funded and able to pay so-called "coyotes" - human smugglers - large sums of money for help gaining illegal entry into the U.S.

Although many of the non-Mexican illegal aliens are fluent in Spanish, Gonzalez said they speak with an accent that is not native.

"It's clear these people are coming in for reasons other than employment," Gonzalez said. That sentiment is shared by Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.).

"For years, Muslims and other 'Special Interest Aliens' from places other than Mexico have been streaming into the U.S. across our porous border," Tancredo told Cybercast News Service. "These people are not paying $50,000 or more a head just to 'take jobs no American will do.'

"Terrorists are working round the clock to infiltrate the United States," he added. "Congress and this administration must address this gaping hole in our national security and they must do it now."

Some of the more high profile pieces of evidence pointing to terrorist infiltration of the U.S. have been uncovered in Jim Hogg County, Texas, which experiences a high volume of smuggling activity, according to local law enforcement.

"We see patches on jackets from countries where we know Al Qaeda to be active," Gonzalez explained.

The patches appear to be military badges with Arabic lettering. One patch in particular, discovered this past December, caught the attention of federal homeland security officials, according to Gonzalez and local officials familiar with the investigation.

Sheriff Wayne Jernigan of Valverde County, Texas, told members of the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee in March about one patch that read "midnight mission" and displayed an airplane flying over a building heading towards a tower. Translators with DHS have said some of the various phrases and slogans on the items could mean "martyr," "way to eternal life," or "way to immortality."

Gonzalez told the House International Relations Subcommittee on International Terrorism and Nonproliferation in July that the terrorists are getting smarter. "To avoid apprehension, we feel many of these terrorists attempt to blend in with persons of Hispanic origin when entering the country." Gonzalez stated. "We feel that terrorists are already here and continue to enter our country
on a daily basis."

Sheriff Arvin West of Hudspeth County, Texas, told Cybercast News Service that he believes some Mexican soldiers are operating in concert with the drug cartels to aid the terrorists."There's no doubt in my mind," he said, "although the Mexican government and our government adamantly deny it."

Statistics made available through the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) show more than 40,000 illegal aliens from countries "Other Than Mexico," designated as OTMs, were apprehended by the U.S. Border Patrol in the period ranging from October 2003 to June 2004, as they attempted to cross the southwestern border. An overview of border security challenges produced through the office of Texas Gov. Rick Perry indicates that almost 120,000 OTMs were apprehended while attempting to cross into the state from January through July 2005.

Local authorities are particularly concerned about illegal aliens arriving from Special Interest Countries (SICs) where a radical version of Islam is known to flourish. Perry's office cites Iraq, Iran, Indonesia and Bangladesh among those countries. A Tancredo spokesperson said the list also includes Afghanistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Somalia and Yemen.

As Cybercast News Service previously reported an internal audit of DHS that combines the number of illegal aliens arriving from SICs with the documented instances of illegal aliens arriving from countries identified as being state sponsors of terrorism (SSTs) yields a grand total of over 90,000 such illegal aliens who have been apprehended during the five year period from fiscal year 2001 to fiscal year 2005.

The border security report delivered by Perry's office focuses attention on the "Triborder region" of Latin America, which spans an area between Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay.

"The Triborder Region is a focal point of Islamic extremism," the report states. "Al Qaeda leadership plans to use criminal alien smuggling organizations to bring terrorist operatives across the border into the U.S."

Carlos Espinosa, a press spokesman for Tancredo, said his office is aware of a training camp in Brazil that actually teaches people from outside of Latin America how they can assimilate into the Mexican culture.

"They come up as illegal aliens and disguise themselves as potential migrant workers," Espinosa said.









Offline DWTim

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2006, 04:55:14 PM »
Not meaning to derail the thread, but this gets me thinking about the money. Where is it coming from? It's like the story about Hizbollah handing out $100 US bills to the "afflicated" in southern Lebanon. Turns out the bills were counterfeit. Then we have the story from not so long ago about North Korea funding itself by printing and passing counterfeit $100 US bills. I know it's always been popular to make fake US currency, but I'm going to wonder if Texas law enforcement starts nabbing these people, and they're paying their way with mounds of counterfeit bills.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2006, 06:44:18 PM »
Scary stuff indeed!!! Sadly i know it is true. My cousin's son is a Border Patrol agent in NM just West of El Paso, yes NOW is the time!!
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2006, 01:53:56 AM »
Well now, just in case all have wken up, this is not new. Folks have been using this border since Texas independance for this purpose.
Germany, in both wars, is a good example.
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Offline Brett

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2006, 02:42:21 AM »
Just keep in mind that stopping illegals from crossing the borders will put millions of Americans out of work and raise the price of nearly everything you buy.

Sorry, I don't buy this story.   If anything it will make available more jobs for US citizens. Furthermore many illegals benefit from government hand outs such as free health care, welfare and even social security whist our government is loosing billions in tax revenues because few of the illegals are paying any taxes.  So who do you think is footing the bill for all these freebees that the ilegals are enjoying? If I have to pay $3 for a head of lettuce but lower my taxes by even 3% I'ld be happy.
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Offline magooch

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2006, 05:07:39 AM »
Just keep in mind that stopping illegals from crossing the borders will put millions of Americans out of work and raise the price of nearly everything you buy.

Whuuuut? ???
Swingem

Offline azmike

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2006, 05:33:08 AM »
Also consider how much LESS we will all pay in Health and Auto Insurance Premiums, Medical care, Federal, State, and Local Taxes to Subsidiize the use of medical services, public assistance, public schools, and vehicle damage w/out insurance by Illegal Aliens, who often abscond without paying their bills.  That would more than cover the possible short term increase in price for some goods. 

I will gladly pay double or more the current price of produce if it means that if I have to take my wife or son to the ER, I won't have to wait for care behind some illegal Guatemalan who wants to have her baby for free here.  Don't think it happens?  Come visit a hospital here in Arizona sometime.

Besides, the "you'll pay more for lettuce" argument is bunk.  Amazingly enough, in other industries where there have been either labor shortages or labor was too costly (see automobile manufacture), entrepreneurs have developed automated methods of manufacture/harvest.  Potatoes, onions, blackberries, even apples all have automated harvest/processing methods in some parts of the country.  Those are only examples, there are, and could be others with the proper incentive, like no more illegal labor.

Additionally, to the farmer/manufacturer that hires illegal labor, shame on you.  You are commiting a crime, and endangering the security of your neighbors by inviting people into your community who may admittedly want to work, but bring with them drug dealers, pedophiles, thieves, and various other criminals.  The whole point of the legal admission process is so we can run background checks on these folks, and bar the dirtbags from entering the U.S.  Certainly there are decent folks that are sidestepping the legalization process because jumping the line is easier, but can YOU pick them out by meeting them on the street, and differentiate between the good working folks and the child rapist by talking to him at the grocery store?  Don't think so. 

Sorry GB, rant off.  I live in a community of 25,000 that has a higher crime rate than most large cities in the US, strictly the result of people tolerating illegal immigration. 

     

Offline Savage .250

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2006, 07:13:53 AM »
 Look at it this way, every illegal crossing our southern borber, as well as other places,  is a "potential" Republican voter. That being said, politicians are holding the
  door(border)  open as long as possible for the votes!
  Staying in office is job one.   Closing the border is not a priority.
   
 
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Offline rockbilly

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2006, 07:25:02 PM »
Swampman. are you smoking something you are growing in the swamp? 

I don't have any idea what part of the country you live in, but I know for a fact the illegals have cost many American their jobs, and it will continue to happen as long as they continue to cross the border.  Many of the medical facilities in my area of the country are taxed to the max by the requirement to provide free care to the illegals.  You can go the emergency room any hour, day or night, and there will be several of them there to get care.  They have learned if they go to the emergency room the service will be free.

As for Germany using this border during both wars, maybe, but if they did, there was not 20 million of them crossing.  It is estimated that there are 5000,000 anchor babies born to the illegals each yrear, and we call them citizens.

Either it stops, or we tear down all the borders and let the entire country die from the cancer we allowed in.  The numbers alone will turn this country into another mexican state.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2006, 01:06:51 AM »
Well, the comment was to the effect that many nations/immigrants from such have used this corridor for a long time--especially if the person/nation was transporting anything it did not want disclosed (searched)--not just dope.
Canada is a relatively new border crossing.
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Offline magooch

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2006, 05:14:29 AM »
Anyone who thinks that it's the GOP that doesn't want to control the borders is just not looking at who it is that is opposing legislation.  Yes there are some Republicans who have their heads up their rear ends, but by far, it is the liberal Dumbocrats who are against any laws that would restrict immigration.  And it is Dumbocrats who are against laws that would assure that illegals don't vote. 

While there are legitimate concerns about some segments of our agri-business being deprived of necessary labor to function, we are past the point where we can work out comprehensive laws that will solve all the attendant problems.  The borders must be secured and whatever other problems there are, will have to be sorted out afterwards.
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Offline rockbilly

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2006, 06:15:02 AM »
magooch, I agree. But iI do not support any kind of amensty program.  A guest worker program, where they are documented, but not provided an avenue to citizenship is our best answer.  At present, there is a massive move to make them legal, and provide them voting rights.  The majority of the illegals have no idea what issues are important and will vote the way their leaders tell them too.  My concern is the adgenda of the leaders.

Our agri-business needs can be met with a valid temporary worker program.  I can support such a move as long as the immigrant is documented and legal to be in this country.  To round them up and send all of them home would be costly, cause an increase in the cost of many of our products, but in my opinion we are best served by taking the increased cost in some areas to see reduced cost in others.  It will balance out.

The continued influx of illegals to this country is slowly, but surely, killing the America we know.  Yesterday, while driving from Waco, TX to Abilene I was searching for an english speaking radio station to get a weather report, it was near impossible to find one on AM or FM.  Most of the channels are spanish speaking.  My question is, WHY?  Is there that many mexican or spanish speaking people in the area, or is it a case of stations catering to them?

If you can't speak english, then go back to your own country..............

Offline TCBrian

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2006, 07:03:31 AM »
Illegal aliens are taking over southern CA. Mexico and many Mexicans want to get as many people here as they can so they can vote to benefit Mexico. I am here on the front line and I see it every day. Every day more and more people do not speak english, more and more people now live here that do not believe in or feel they are responsible to follow the laws and values of this country. This is not a rascist thing as all the open borders people will have you believe, it is a patriotic thing. Many people from Mexico and south America are socialists and becoming more so every day. If republicans think that anyone with core socialist values are going to vote republican over the the communist left, they are kidding themselves. Amesty for illegals will be the death of the Republican party and this country as we know it.
People that want to come here can do it legally, learn english and assimilate, otherwise they can go the hell back to their own country.
I find it funny everyday that everyone is worried about a couple muslims that may bomb us. How about the massive organized crime that comes over the Mexican border everyday. The majority of gang members in CA now are illegal immigrants, the majority of drugs smuggled in here are smuggled by illegal immigrants. I have contractors that I have worked with for years that have been driven out of here by illegal immigrants. My house is now sold and I am leaving this state, mostly because of the crime and loss of values that have come from illegal hispanic immigrants.
I have many hispanic friends that feel the same way. They want the illegal invasion stopped and they want out. Let the spineless polititions give amnesty and the rest of the third world is coming here and every state can suffer the same fate as California. The liberals will get their votes, and guns and hunting will be in the greatest jepardy that we have ever seen.
On top of everything else, whenever I see people poaching in California and Arizona it is 90% spanish speaking hispanics that I am pretty much sure are here illegally. They don't care about are laws and take whatever they like. It needs to stop, it simply is not fair to legal immigrants and citizens that were born here and follow and respect the law.

We are a country of borders and laws. If those things are not respected we will no longer be a country.

Brian

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2006, 10:47:29 AM »
This thread gave me 2 big laughs & I needed that.
1. Yes, many Republicans including George Bush have their heads in the sand, but ALL the Socialist Democraps do & in fact several Soc. Democraps made big speechs at these Ill. Imm. rallies/protests
to get their votes. The ONLY U.S. Senators & Rep. opposed to the Illegals is a small amount of Republicans like Tancredo.
2. The amazing idea that we are better off because the illegals are here. Hogwash. I keep hearing this from Liberals, the immigrants(they avoid the illegal part) are doing jobs that other people are unwilling to do. Oh really!!!! Then who was doing those jobs before they showed up. You won't hear an answer for that one. And yes, they are a huge cost for reasons already give. We heard about hospitals going broke in CA. & AZ, now it is starting to happen here where I live.

But the biggest concern of all to me is the one Rockbilly pointed out in the original post, can't argue with that without showing ignorance on the subject.

We have to move on this one fast.
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Offline rockbilly

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2006, 01:17:32 PM »
Swampman as a young man, I did the work.  I picked cotton, loaded watermellons, raised food products to be sold at the market.  I wasn't alone, many of us older folks spent time in the fields.  I am not saying we don't need help to do these things today, but we surely don't need the illegals with their gangs and crime destroying our cities.  If we established a guest worker program, and legally processed the workers, then what would be the difference?  We still have workers, but they are legal.  It is the illegals that I think should be deported, no matter the cost.

Running them out of the country will not have that much of an impact on our economy.  It may hurt some small business owners (crooks) that have hired and continue to hire illegals.  These business owners are only vocal when they can't find the cheap labor necessary to increase profits and line their pockets. 

In my area of Texas, it is common to find a illegal who has opened a business and will only hire illegals, often running long established American companys out of business by under bidding them on jobs.  This is found quite often in the building trades such as cement work, tile work, and roofing.  It is also evident in the landscape business as well as some of the farm industry.

One of the major groups that suffer from the influx of illegals is the Black American.  Lots of areas have been severly crippled by illegals taking their jobs, I seen this in Virginia and Tennesse as well as Texas and New Mexico.  Even many of our legal Mexicans have been put out of work by thise that will work cheaper.  There are hundreds of Blacks that would take the job FEMA has given to an illegal in New Orleans, yes, our FEMA hires them too.

First, I think the federal government needs to be more agresssive by arresting business owners that hire illegals.  These are the folks that should be targeted.  Once they are convinced not to hire illegals, they will go home at their own expense.  Second, we need to tighten up border control, and stop releasing those that are caught crorring illegally.  Put them in jail and feed them bread and water for a while and they will want to leave.  Jails do not have to be fancy with all the comforts of home, a chain length fence, tents, outhouse, and several guards with shotguns is all we need to establish such a facility.  Afterall, they are not citizens of this country, and this would be the best you could expect if you were caught illegally in their country.

If action is not taken immediately to stop the illegals, and send those already here home you will not have an America in a very few years.  In the mean time, stock up on ammo, you may need it before this is over.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2006, 01:41:40 PM »
"Then who was doing those jobs before they showed up."

They have been here for a long, long time.  Before them, African Americans did the crap work that no one else will do.

Since welfare and other socialist progams pay them to sit at home and do crack/meth, no one will do this work when the illegals are gone.

You can believe anything you wish, but I'm telling you the God's truth.  We will rue the day when we pushed these hard working honest folks back across the border.  Millions of small businesses will dry up and blow away.

Millions of uninsured American citizens are running hospitals out of business too.  Racism isn't a good logical reason to get rid of hard working folks under the guise of "saving America."

Sorry, but much of the country does not have a Black population, including where I live, so no it was not the Blacks here or alot of other places as well. But I will tell you that I did alot of these jobs before the ILLEGALS
came & I worked my way through it & got an education. Yea, we have welfare folks all over, thanks to the so-called Great Society. But again, someone was doing those jobs before, anyone who wants to can figure that out.
And where exactly does the racism come into this, another standard Liberal po po remark. I don't care iof they are Swedes, ( the Mexicans look more like me than a Swede  ::) )we cannot have Illegals coming in & my main concern is Nat. Sec.  Do you detect Racism, we are big boys, tell us who is guilty here.
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Offline TCBrian

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2006, 03:29:31 PM »
The President is doing what is good for the country, and I support his position on this matter.  We realy, really, really need the workers, and that's the bottom line.  I doubt illegals are responsible for 1% of the crime in this country. 

Swampman,
Where do you live?  If you think that much of the crime is not from illegals, then you surely don't live in the southwest. I have many friends of different backgrounds, races, colors, etc. Wanting to enforce the law has nothing to do with color or race. Fact is that most of the crime in my area is related to illegal aliens.
You seem to be one of these people that are brainwashed into thinking racism is the reason we want to "enforce the laws of this country". You seem to support braking the law to benefit a certain group.
I happen to be a small business owner and like many others I am leaving CA because of the illegals.I am a contractor that only hires legal residents and people legal to work here. I work on many jobs where me and my crew are the only ones that speak other than spanish. I work in warehouses that are all hispanics speaking spanish now. Those jobs were a mixture of black, white, asian, etc, before, so who is rascist. The Mexicans move in and everyone else gets kicked out, period. It is true that some contractors and other businesses that make a killing off of exploiting illegals will suffer, as well they should, since they are knowingly breaking the law.
Legal citizens of all races are hurt from the illegal invasion. It also hurts the people that are trying to immigrate hear legally. Why shouldn't everyone wait their turn in line, just like everyone else.
In this area retired people and young people can't get a fast food job, because they are all taking by recent immigrants. All drywall, painting, most framing, concrete, etc. is all dominated by illegals here now.

All I can say to the open borders amnesty peopl is, I hope they come for your job soon and your kids get placed in class where 75% of the kids do not speak english and your chidrens education is forced to suffer. By the way, it costs about $12,000 per year per student to put a kid through school here in CA. The legal tax payers pick that up while the illegals, send 5 kids at a cost of $60,000 per year through the schools and they don't even make and effort to speak english. At least us tax payers get our concrete done a little cheaper, right?

I hope the country as a whole wakes up on this issue before it is too late. I could go on and on about things like national wildlife areas that are trashed by illegals, illegal gill netting, using our national parks to grow pot, etc.

Guest worker programs when we have everyone that is here legally working, maybe. Amnesty for law breakers that want to destroy this great country, never!

Brian


Offline nomosendero

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2006, 05:31:01 PM »
Swampman, I think your idea of Conservative & mine are a little different. I think it is Conservative to
have a strict border policy/secure borders. The Security issue does not seem to come into your equation at all, maybe I should look again & make sure, I don't remember you talking about it even though it was the main consideration when Rockbilly started this post.
  Yes, I voted for Pres. Bush & he did SOME things Conservative in regards to his feelings & ACTING on them in the way of Abortion, Tax Cuts, Gun Control & Others, I don't want to dwell on these as
it is not the subject, whether he did that to appease the party or it was what he believed, I do not know as I cannot know his heart. But in this matter of Immigration he has let me down in a major way & as I said before his attitute toward Illegal Immigration is ANYTHING BUT CONSERVATIVE!!!
  Likewise I cannot know your heart but the argument that you propose & with the desire to throw in the Race Card actually is classic Liberalism. In fact it is a little embarassing to me that you say you are a Conservative Republican & being a Conservative does not mean that you walk in lockstep with the President when he is wrong & on this issue he is dead wrong,, & I say that as a Conservative. If you look some of the Rep. Congress is going the PC route as well, instead of right & wrong on many fronts. Testing the wind daily is NOT Conservatism. God Bless the Few Actual Conservative Republicans we have, may we someday get more.
  I actually CANNOT vote for any SOCIALIST DEMOCRAP, but if a Non Conservative Rep.like McCain or
Ruddy get nominated, I will vote Constitution Party.
 To me it matters not if the Illegals who cross are Mexicans, Musslims, Chinese, Russians who are paying Coyotes to cross, drug smugglers, freeloaders or terroists, it is tragic that they can cross so freely. As for the hard working, honest folks who are many, they need to go through the right channels as they cross & we no doubt can work on a better way of doing that. That has to happen as they cross, not after they cross.  What if some of these good, hard working people cross sneak across the border with a highly contagious disease. Is that OK? I remember all the talk about how
we would contact Bird Flu, not letting people who have been exposed to it fly into the country, etc. Well, well, well, how long would it take for Bird flu to be here if it spreads in Mexico, a couple of weeks maybe.
  Nat. Security, Drugs, Disease, it goes on and on. You say that that you doubt that Illegals don't commit 1% of our crimes. Do you live in Maine or something, this reminds me of another guy that
made a simular argument about 6 months ago, perhaps from the same area, who knows. I would say
the California State Pen. would have more like 30% illegals & other Southwest States in a simular spot with States like here in AR. starting to see this, in other words the crime wave is moving North. I am sure in a day or two we can grab some real numbers, but I know the 30% for Cal. & others is a whole lot closer than 1%. You make a comparison with US Citizens who are caught speeding, well number 1 there is a fixed penality for that regardless of race & I have paid it & we are quaranteed certain protections by our Constitution, which is not intended to cover foreigners. What part of
Illegal Alien do you not understand?? 
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Offline Brett

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2006, 01:17:12 AM »
Swampman how many illegals do you employ?   What good are these 'millions' of small businesses to us if they are not operating within the law and giving jobs to legitimate citizens?   By the way these same businesses are stealing from all of us by not paying into unemployment and disability for these illegals which means we have to pick up the slack for these services not only for ourselves but for the illegals as well.   
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Offline Savage .250

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2006, 03:01:02 AM »
  I don`t agree with SWAMPMAN but hey, it`s a free country..........just ask any
    illegal immigrant. 
   
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Offline nomosendero

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2006, 03:32:07 AM »
  Swampman, I grew up in a small business & work in one now. I think I understand it fairly well &
also realize that a small business does not have to be illegal to function, if so they are in the wrong business.  We have all heard the saying that good help is hard to find. I believe it originally came from General Grant (yea Grant) when someone asked him why HE owned slaves. Still did not make it right, sorry.
  I see that you still don't recognize the original intent of the post, Nat. Sec. because anyone can
understand that & you want to dodge it.
  As far as the straight voting Republican stuff goes, you remind me of the mainly over 60 year old
Democrats here in AR. who vote straight Democrap no matter what & because of that they are blind & don't see how the National Party has a different view to them in vertially everything. I am talking about Older Conservative Minded(they think) people who if asked say they are against Abortion, Gun Control, Liberal Judges, etc., all of the things the Nat. Socialist Democraps adore, yet
consistantly vote for these people. I have seen it all of my adult life & it is humorous, though sad.
  I have voted for Republicans, for some because they were actually Conservative & for others because they were better than the alternative, but I will not be blind & vote for them just because they are Republican & yet NOT Conservative like many of the new ones are. Like I said before, if they nominate a Liberal, I will vote Constitution Party.
  You say that Pres. Bush is doing a great job & in some things he has. But in immigration he has been a flop, but if you want to give us a list of the good things he has done concerning immigration I
would like to see those, no dodging just the list please.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline magooch

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2006, 03:56:38 AM »
I'm sure where I live isn't significantly different than much of the rest of the West; if it weren't for hispanic illegals, or legals--whatever they are--the local cops would have a difficult time justifying their numbers and the local newspaper could just about eliminate a whole section of the paper (the crime and arrest reports).

Indeed, it is long past the point where we must control the borders and the flow of illegals.  When I say control the "flow", I mean reverse it.  The goal must be to send the millions back to where ever they came from.

I'm never going to accept that this is an impossible job; it is an imperitive job.  I am well aware that a system exists for returning illegals to their country of origin and I disagree with how it is presently done.  These law-breakers do not deserve a nice plane ride back to their countries.  I would transport them to the border in a cattle truck and make them walk, or swim back into Mexico.  Maybe then Mexico can deal with them, or get really serious about controlling their own southern and northern borders.
Swingem

Offline TCBrian

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2006, 05:43:27 AM »
Swampman,
You talk about what you think is fact, but you never did answer the question of where you live. I live and own a contracting business in Southern Ca. I go hunting and fishing in the places that are being destroyed everyday by illegals. I see the mass exodus of legal U.S. citizens that are being driven out of here by the illegals. I grew up here and many of my friends are hispanic. I think I might understand the situation a little bit. More jobs are being lost than gained. The school systems, hospitals, freeways, are collapsing from the  problem. I live in a neighborhood where 20 people live in a 2 bedroom house and then some more live in the garage. I see young kids working on jobsites on the weekends. Much of the cheap contruction is because they violate codes and rules. My friends had some cabinets built and when the came home the contractor had left a 10 year old hispanic kid at their house to work on their cabinets. Are the illegals hard working and willing to deal with adversity, hell yes they are. It doesn't make it right though. We abolished slavery for a reason and you wall street journal, open borders conservatives want to bring back slave labor by exploiting Mexicans, central americans, and chinese just so we can have cheaper labor. If a steady flow of cheap labor is the only way to keep the economy going then the system has failed. Even then, there are plenty of people already in this country to handle the labor.

It doesn't help any of these people in the long run either. We need to enforce are laws, not exploit them for cheap labor. How about helping them to fix countries like Mexico. I don't blame illegals for coming here, many are very good hard working people and I know some personally. I blame the U.S. government, the Mexican government, the drug and people smugglers, the sanctuary cities, and the employers that exploit them, etc. I would like to see a time when we have fair mutually benificial trade between Mexico and the U.S. but not at the expense of the U.S. taxpayers. You have to enforce the laws we have and stomp out the corruption first, then we can maybe talk about a guest worker program.

Brian

Offline TCBrian

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2006, 12:35:53 PM »
Not all of Californias Problems are from illegals of course, but they represent a huge problem.
Once again, you seem to be an expert, where do you live? I live in southern California, I have lived here and studied the problem for years. Many states are just now getting invaded, how did those states ever have any jobs without illegals?
Saying the economy can't survive without illegal, identity stealing, laborers  begs the question why do we have any laws at all?
Money isn't the only thing that matters either, the quality of wildlife habitat and quality of people lives are important. The same people that love the cheap illegal labor are generally the same that love all the subdivitions and malls that are built on once wild lands. How many subdivions and malls are enough? Believe me, I understand economics. I trade well over $100,000 on the stock market and have real estate. Constant growth can not continue, there will always be a collapse.  What we need is balance, not a constantly growing economy and population.

If we do let everyone come here for cheap labor, how much is enough? 100 million, 200 million, 1 or 2 billion? How many?

Brian

Offline Casull

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2006, 12:43:21 PM »
Swampman, it may be real simple in your mind, but not to those who analyze the situation.  Most of those illegals are involved in service industries (i.e. restaurants, lawn service, basic labor, etc.).  How do those jobs get exported?  Are we going to head to Europe when we want to dine out, or send our lawns and construction jobs to India to be taken care of?  Of course not.  Without the illegal work force, the wages for those jobs will likely rise some, but guess what, some legal citizens who are not currently working will have jobs.  That will take them off of welfare and/or unemployment.  If there is a job that needs doing, it will get done, either by raising the wages or greater mechinization.  This country is certainly strong enough to survive without relying on the people that Mexico doesn't even want.
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline RaySendero

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2006, 01:52:31 PM »
We will have to mow our own lawns, the restaurants will close, basic labor won't get done, and everything we eat will be imported.  Those who rely on these industries for work will be without jobs.  People on welfare and unemployment don't want jobs.  How much simpler can it get?  Not liking Mexicans isn't reason enough to spoil our economy.

Close the border, Stop the inflow of illegals now and the ones here - kick'em out!

  • We will have to mow our own lawns - Buy yourself a lawn mower
  • the restaurants will close - Learn to cook
  • basic labor won't get done - Pitch-in and help
  • everything we eat will be imported - See item 2 above
  • Those who rely on these industries for work will be without jobs - But they will be on the other side of the border (Remember Kick'em out in heading)
  • People on welfare and unemployment don't want jobs - Nothing here will change

How much simpler can it get?
    Ray

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2006, 02:43:09 PM »
Mow my own yard, well Waaah Waaah Waaah,  :'( I guess that means I can't let the neighbor's boy
do it either because that would be taking a job away from an ILLEGAL.  ::)

Swampman
What a economic crock this is!! Explain how the economic well being of any Nation is dependent
on the labor of not immigrants, but Illegal Aliens. But it would be appropriate to start a new thread on this as it is not the original subject. It will be easy to deal with.

What is weird about this thread and not according to the rules as I see it is all of your arguments have nothing to do with the original post even after myself and others have asked you to do so, (BTW, we have a right to do that) I realize you may not have a logical rebuttal on the matter, but that does not give you a license to divert away fom the subject because you can't defend your position. You might want to look at rockbilly's initial post & see if you are on topic. If it is OK to stay off of the subject post after post then I guess we all can, but I bet Mr. Graybeard & this Forum Moderator will disagree. 

BTW, something you did bring up which relates to the Border/Nat. Security matter (the subject)
is you are telling us that Pres. Bush is doing a good job. Concerning this subject matter, I am still waiting for you to list what HE  is doing about it!   
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Dee

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2006, 06:13:07 PM »
We will have to mow our own lawns, the restaurants will close, basic labor won't get done, and everything we eat will be imported.  Those who rely on these industries for work will be without jobs.  People on welfare and unemployment don't want jobs.  How much simpler can it get?  Not liking Mexicans isn't reason enough to spoil our economy.

I have read this entire topic and am amazed at the Polyanna attitude you have Swampman. I retired from a TEXAS POLICE DEPT. 12 years ago, and let me give you some insight on the REAL WORLD not according to GW whom I voted for twice. I worked mexican gangs for 13 years. Most of the gang members parents were then from Mexico. The parents then put no real value on education so, they wouldn't make their kids go to school regularly. They got on welfare and food stamps (this was before the cards) and also held down jobs. They sold the food stamps for fifty cents on the dollar to buy alcohol for saturday night. When you asked them why they were on welfare, when they had jobs, their reply was always; It's free! They seldom get driver's licenses, insurance for their cars, or medical insurance. Why? Because unless they commit a serious crime, we couldn't DEPORT THEM. Many that were involved in traffic accidents that was their fault, when asked for insurance, would say: I don't have any but, he does. Maybe his insurance will fix both our cars. When Texas started REQUIREING INSURANCE to get cars registered mexicans did and still do, buy a 30 day policy, until they get their tags and then let it expire. They know what the system is and how to BEAT IT. And our schools. I watched a school have to form it's own POLICE DEPT. because of mexican gangs disrupting the classes and causing problems. This was in a county of less than 30,000 people, predominately white. What the politicians aren't giving to other countries and themselves, people like mexican illegals are draining out of our social services. Last year I took my wife to the emergency room. Two families of illegals, yes familes, were there with common colds. The kids were scootin around on the floor playing and we had to wait on the translator to show up for these two famlies with colds. Their bill? Nothing. They said they had no money or insurance. My bill for one x-ray and a prescrition. $3,063.00. We were there less than an hour. You said of GW, good job, good man. He has turned out to be a little rich boy, who fancies himself as a nation builder. Think I'm not patriotic? I served this country for 20 years, enforcing state and federal laws and protecting people's rights. My oldest son draws a 20% dis-ability, 3rd Battalion Rangers, remember them? My youngest is 22 yoa. He was back from Afganistan less than 4 months and now he is in Iraq. He's a Sgt with the 82nd Air Borne. Nobodies joinin up much anymore. That's why they're taking 42 year old volunteers now. We're fighting terrorism with wide open borders? Come on! Do you lock your doors at night? If so why? Repuklicans, Dipocrats. I can't tell the difference. They all smell the same. You say you worked with them? Well, I worked them! They're a pain in the butt. They know what the rules are and don't care.  What this country needs to do besides shutting down the borders is give notice of 6 months to all able-bodied people on welfare to get their house in order, because if you don't work, you don't eat. Then give them a job building a damn fence just south of here, and throwing illegals and their anchor babies over it.  Wake up and smell the coffee!:(
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2006, 06:21:18 PM »
Dee, please tell your sons that we appreciate their service!!
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline rockbilly

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Re: Close The Borders Now!
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2006, 06:50:52 AM »
Swampman.  What part of LEGAL is it that you do not understand?

I think most folks will agree with me on this, A system to process and provide temporary work permits is acceptable, even when laced with the possibility of obtaining citzenship. Most of us are only opposed to the illegals and the open door policy of the current adminstration.

In my opinion, the majority of those opposed to eliminating the illegals are in business and only seeking to line their pockets by taking advantage of the cheap labor.  In addition, they are in OUR country, english is our language, we do not wave any other nation's flag, or hold an allegiance to any other country. 

This is not the case with a lot of the legal and illegal immigrants, they try to rebuild the country to the image of the one they left.  As far as I am concerned, I don't  live in Mexico, and I don't want a Mexican settlement next door to me.

If you want to see this country fail then let the numbers continue to grow.  This has been the case in many other countries throughout history.  When we get to lazy to do our own work and import labor from elsewhere, we can expect to be the slaves to that group at some later date.

You have been asked several times to reveal where (State) you live.  Just out of curisoity, what is youir age. Perhaps your inexperience and fact that you reside in an area sheltered from the immigrants may contribute to your views.  Is this possible?