Point of Impact and Fixed Sights

[Rayco3]

How far from point of aim are you willing to aloow your shots to stray with a concealed carry gun, and at what range do you test?  My Kahr P45 (after having the barrel changed by Kahr) still shoots 2-3 inches low at 7-1/2 yards and a little to the left.  Before they changed the barrel it was 6-8 inches low.  What should I do.  I've tried several ammo types and different bullet weights.  Thanks.

[DWTim]

Three inches low at over 20 feet would be perfectly acceptable for CCW work for me. I'm saying this based on the likelihood that I'd be using it inside of 10 feet to arm's length. I test at 10 yards or 25 yards. For defense loads, I mainly care about whether or not my rounds go "bang", and not too much about accuracy. I have trouble seating soft pistol primers in my handloads.

What bullets weights did you try? What kind of variance in shot placement was there between bullet weights?

I suppose that you could file down the front sight, but I don't think 2-3 inches low at 22 feet warrants that.

If it's consistently low and left with all types of ammo, it could be tightening your grip right before pulling the trigger. Please don't get insulted from this suggestion, I have no idea your level experience. I mention it because I've been doing it lately.

[jimster]

personally, I'm kind of fusy when it comes to point of aim with a fixed sight gun, I do whatever it takes to fix it.
I have filed down front sights to raise point of aim, widened the notch/groove in the frame to move POA right or left, and also had a few barrels turned slightly. I've also put slightly taller sights on the front to bring POA down.
That's just me though, can't stand a gun that won't shoot to POA with a favorite load.
But, hey...that's just me.

Jimster

[44 Man]

I have to agree.  I want any gun I own to be able to pop a bunny (stay in 3") at 15 yards.  That also means it must shoot to point of aim.  That said I have a Colt Defender that I just bought new that shoots about 5" high at 20 yds and that's not acceptable.  I will install a higher front sight to bring it into line.  That said, I have to say that your ammo makes a lot of difference.  Most .45's are regulated for 200 or 230 gr bullets.  I have a friend that thinks that faster is better and use's hi veloicty 165gr .45's.  He has to change the sights on every gun he buys to get it to shoot any where near the sights!  So if you are using 185 gr bullets, try 200's, or if 200's, try 230's and see what it does.  If the bullet you are using is what you plan to use forever, you can file the front sight down a little.  As for shooting a little left, that's easy.  The sights on that Kahr (which I have to say, I really like those guns) are both dovetailed.  You can move the front sight to the left a little or the rear sight to the right.  Look down the slide and see if one or the other looks a little out of line with the slide.  44 Man

[vicspank]

Hi,low and left is a sign of anticipating recoil.How long have you been shooting and how long have you been shooting that pistol.Alot of shooters that get new guns have to adapt to them.Before you do anything to the sights,try working on straight back trigger squeeze and dont tighten your grip on the gun as you pull the trigger.I'm not questioning your ability,I don't know you, but that could be the problem.

                                                          vicspank-NRA Certified Instructor

[44 Man]

Oh yeah!  Vicspank is right on.  I was thinking mechanics rather than ergonomics!  Many shooters, when they expect the gun to go off, will often push it forward and down to fight the recoil.  It doesn't help the recoil, but it will cause you to shoot low.  Shooting left can easily be tightening your whole hand as you press the trigger.  That's one reason I don't like the term 'squeeze the trigger' because you tend to 'milk' the whole grip and squeeze your whole hand as you do that..... and you shoot low and left.  Think 'press' for your trigger control, not 'squeeze'.  Get a firm grip on the gun, them move your trigger finger independently of the rest of your hand.  44 Man  (if you are an experienced shooter, refer back to how to adjust the sights)