Author Topic: .338-06 Help!!!  (Read 1097 times)

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Offline PaLongshank

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.338-06 Help!!!
« on: September 05, 2006, 07:25:00 AM »
Can't get this sucker to shoot for nothing.  Have tried IMR 4350 and IMR 4198, CCI 200 primer, and 225 gr Nosler Accubond.  If anyone out there has a suggestion for loads I would like to hear what works for you.  I have had 2 different scopes on it and 2 different sets of rings as well.  Best I can come up with is a 4" group at 100 yds.

Thanks, PaLongshank

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: .338-06 Help!!!
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2006, 08:03:02 AM »
I don't have a TC, but BL-C2 works great with the 200gr Ballistic Silvertip, and H414 with the 230gr Failsafe, they may be worth giving a try. ;)

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline PaLongshank

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Re: .338-06 Help!!!
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2006, 08:46:09 AM »
Do you use a magnum primer.....I am wondering if I need to be using one?

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: .338-06 Help!!!
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2006, 09:41:52 AM »
Hodgdon calls for a CCI200 with their data, but I use Rem 9½ large rifle almost exclusively. Hornady and Nosler both use WLR in their data.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: .338-06 Help!!!
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2006, 10:31:41 AM »
PALS,

I'm gonna make a few suggestions, and you may have already done\know this, so if you do pardon me for giving you info you already know about.

If your loading Nosler bullets I am thinking you have already measured your chamber OAL and you are seating your Nosler bullets anywhere from .030 (thirty thous.) to .015 (fifteen thous.) less than your chamber OAL. If your Noslers are seated shorter than this, they will give you some pretty large groups no matter what powder you use.

I did look at the Hodgdon site http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/33806.php for the 330-06 and it doesn't list a load for BL-C2.

I don't really think a primer (brand) would effect the groups that much, unless the load called for magnum and you were not using that, or vice\versa.

So.....check your OAL, and double check your recepie for the primer type...oh yeah......is your brass trimed to the proper leangth?

Dave.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: .338-06 Help!!!
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2006, 01:03:32 PM »
The Hodgdon 2006 Annual, available at walmart for $7, shows BL-C2 data for all 9 bullets they list for the .338-06. ;)

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline tom ga hunter

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Re: .338-06 Help!!!
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2006, 10:44:21 AM »
A different reload is not going to make a 4" rifle into a 1" rifle. T/c uses hornady 200 gr bullets & h4350 in their barrel test. If that doesn't work for you send the barrel back.

Offline PaLongshank

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Re: .338-06 Help!!!
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2006, 07:39:44 AM »
Finally, something I can work with!

I had to seat the bullets WAY out past what was called for in all reloading books.  Made an incredible difference.  Shooting at a .75" red dot at 100 yards.  My 3rd and 4th shot (after shooting 2 at 50 yds) almost cut holes in the middle of dot.  4th shot was still within an 1" for the 3 shot group and I pulled the 5th a little.   I think from farthest point of both outside holes it measures 1.5".  My load is on the target.  Going to do some more tweaking to try to get a little tighter but I am way happy after scratching/pounding my head for 2 months!!!!!!!!!!!

I really like the way this little sucker feels in my shoulder and like it even more now, but was starting to have some serious doubts about the barrel/caliber/gun make combo.

Thanks for all who offered suggestions!

PaLongshank

Offline swampthing

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Re: .338-06 Help!!!
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2006, 02:25:52 PM »
It amazes me how "generous" the throats are on T/C barrels. With my .309 JDJ I would adjust the seating die a 1/8 turn at a time until the round just fell in and I heard the rim "clink." The round should fall out when turned upside down, roughly 30-50 thou of the lands, what a tack driver.

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: .338-06 Help!!!
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2006, 09:56:54 AM »
A different reload is not going to make a 4" rifle into a 1" rifle. T/c uses hornady 200 gr bullets & h4350 in their barrel test. If that doesn't work for you send the barrel back.

Forgive me, as I have not checked this post for quite some time.

Ga. Hunter......a different reload will turn a 6" group gun into a sub-moa at 100 yards. It just takes some patience, research, and trying different powder\bullet combos....and posting questions to forums and listining to folkes that know. That's how I do it.

As for the .308....there is a huge difference between H-4895 and IMR-4895. Like 5" at 100 yards. My .308 loves IMR.

Offline NFG

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Re: .338-06 Help!!!
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2006, 08:25:14 AM »
I sympathize with you PA.  I can tell you from experience that TC's can be a total PITA trying to get them to shoot.  I have an Encore that has had 3 factory 22-250 barrels replaced without any luck.  I finally just rechambered the last barrel to 22-243 Midd and still worked my tail off getting it to shoot below 2".  Barnes 53 TSX's went 3", nice triangle but wouldnt get below 2".  I shot up a full box without any success.  First 3" horizontals, then 3" verticals, then back to 3" triangles. The original bug holer loads were 36 to 39 gr H4895 and a 53 gr Hornady match HP.  They ran in the 1 - 3 thou range with the original Rem 40X 1 - 12 twist barrel.

I've been doing T/C's for near 30 years and this I can tell you...factory barrels...either they shoot or the don't and to get the poor ones to shoot is tough work.  After market barrels are another story.

The problem is the reciver/barrel is flexible, you are shooting off the forend that is attached to the barre or grabbing it hard for a hunting shot, and that can impart strange vibrations if you don't use correct sandbag shooting proceedures,(or learn what hold works best in the field) and the forend usually contacts the receiver someplace and again causes problems. The T/C barrel is none to stiff even with the bull barrels.

My 22-243 has gaps around the receiver you can throw a cat through and I milled dovetails into the barrel, a la Contender, installed 5/8" studs held by set screws, then installed a 3/4" x 1" aluminum bar into the forend milled and drilled to fit the barrel studs.  The forend is solid being torqued to 120 in lbs, doesn't touch the receiver and I finally hit a combination of H4895, Sierra 53 gr HP #1400, a 2.575" OAL - just touching the lands, WW cases and Fed 210 Match primers.  It still isn't a bug holer but it is hitting 0.650" most of the time, and still below 3/4", but it won't shoot the 53 gr Hornady's.  I will live with that until the barrel is gone.

I will never have another T/C anything and will get rid of the ones I have over time.  Break action rifles have inherent problems that are hard to overcome and continue to complicate the picture until you give up, sell out or use it for a jack handle.

That being said, if you can live with "hunting" accuracy, 1 1/2" plus or minus 1/2", T/C's are excellent, there are lots of ways to attach the forend and a few places to obtain aftermarket wood if you want to play DIY.  T/C's are things of beauty and a joy to behold.

My first and most fervent advice is to send the whole package to someone who deals with accurizing T/C's, like Mike Bellm, http://www.bellmtcs.com/, who did one for me way back in the day and I trust.  At least he doesn't rip you off and will examine your rifle at a nominal cost and tell you what needs to be done, then do the job, again at a nominal price.  You will be miles ahead unless you are into S&M, like pain and want to do it yourself.  If so, then start searching the forums and 'net, all the pertinant information is available.

Things to do and first things to check.

Check the head space.  Go to Bellms site, he has the best explanation I've found for T/C's.

Get a new bolt, measure and order a hinge pin and lighter trigger spring from Belum. (A Matter of course in Mikes evaluations)  All mine have 1 1/2 lb trigger springs.

Check the throat depth.   My suggestion is purchase a set of Stoney gages.  Measure and record the numbers.  Depending on the caliber I start at 0.020" off the lands for 22, 6mm, 25 cal's, 0.010" from 26 to 28 cal, and 0.005" to just touching for anything over.  Just places to start and not set in stone.  My 338-06 has a throat soo long nothing touches, so I seat to fit the Rem 700 mag and the bullet.  The Hornady 225 gr and Nosler 200 gr shoots 5 shots you can cover with a quarter at way over book numbers because of the "freebore", but it won't shoot any other bullets into anything less than 1 1/2" for 3.

You can have any machinist check the runout on the chamber and to see if it is straight or not.  T/C's are known for bad chambers!!!

Then, after that is done, and you want to continue the process, I would glass bed the forend from stem to stern.  This has helped many a "bad" barrel.  If that doesn't help you can just put a small washer on each screw and make the barrel free floating.  But you MUST make sure the forend doesn't touch the receiver ANYWHERE, including the hinge pin or you will get patterns instead of groups.

These and many other things I do/did to all my T/C's to get them to shoot, just about in that order.  I was successful in 98% of the time. 



Good luck!!!??

Offline tom ga hunter

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Re: .338-06 Help!!!
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2006, 04:50:28 AM »
So what load shoots less than 1.5"? I really want to try it.. thanks

Offline PaLongshank

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Re: .338-06 Help!!!
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2006, 03:16:45 PM »
I am currently shooting the  225 Accubond, 60 gr IMR 4350, CCI 200 primer, and OAL of 3.540.  As stated I have consistently shot sub 1.5" 3 shot groups at 100yds.  Good luck.  PaLongshank