Author Topic: Question about balls??? (Read 1641 times)

no guns here · « **on:** September 08, 2006, 03:14:47 AM »

Got your attention didn't I? Anyway, as a non-cannon guy (for a while yet) what I don't understand is why the interest in cannonballs other than iron? Isn't that what a 3-pounder/6-pounder/12-pounder was made to shoot? Are the repro's that you guys are making not strong enough for iron? Is it too much of a pain to work with? I understand the smaller scale stuff like golf-balls and even the bowling ball mortars, but why build a cannon that would work as originally designed with cast iron and then shoot zinc or what-ever?

Thanks for the enlightenment...
ngh

Double D · « **Reply #1 on:** September 08, 2006, 03:50:15 AM »

Yeah it does seem like we shot a lot trash and sporting goods, doesn't it. But why no iron? Well simple, availability. There is a lack of quality cast iron balls out there. And the cost is a bit prohibitive to set up to do your own iron ball casting.

It is quite simple to set up and cast lead or zinc. Zinc is especially nice as it can be done at home and gives a ball that is almost the same weight as an equivalant Iron ball.

Here is a zinc ball, for a 3.48 inch 6PDR.

Cut the sprue off and it weighs almost 6 lbs onthe nose.

I use the same type equipment for casting a zinc ball as I do for casting lead bullets.

Just the mould is a tad bit larger.

I recover my zinc balls and when they get dinged up into the pot they go. Can't do that with iron.

Zinc is also a bit less abrasive on the bore of my cannon.

I recently up graded my bore from pop can to 6 PDR

no guns here · « **Reply #2 on:** September 08, 2006, 04:51:09 AM »

Double D,
So I guess (since I know less than diddly-squat about casting) that cast iron melts at a higher temp and is harder to work with. Why can't you recast an iron ball? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but dang, there's a lot to learn... The zinc is close to same weight per unit as iron but softer right? And just how in the heck did anyone ever cast a hollow ball? Is it to halves welded together or some secret method?

ngh

Rickk · « **Reply #3 on:** September 08, 2006, 08:28:30 AM »

You can melt lead or zinc in a cast iron frying pot on a propane turkey cooker type stove.

Iron has to be melted in a container that will not melt at iron melting temepratures... ceramic-like, and the temperature is really hard to reach. It is also really dangerous to mess with that much material heated to welding temperatures.

The mold has to be high temperature, like a sand mold for instance, which is not re-usable. For zinc or lead the mold can be steel or aluminum and can be reused thousands of times.

The hollow cores in iron balls can be made with a sand mold insert, which is destroyed after casting and poured out of the fuse hole.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #4 on:** September 08, 2006, 09:06:52 AM »

Personally I much prefer casting Zinc using ONLY steel molds. I've been told that heated to a good casting temperature, Zinc is pretty close to the temp that will cause aluminum to become almost plastic.... starting to melt itself. An aluminum mold just wouldn't last too long that way.

jeeper1 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 08, 2006, 10:23:49 AM »

Zinc melts at 787.15 F.
Aluminum melts at 1220.58 F.
Iron melts at 2800 F.

GGaskill · « **Reply #6 on:** September 08, 2006, 05:41:04 PM »

Zinc melts at 787.15 F.
Aluminum melts at 1220.58 F.
Iron melts at 2800 F.

Aluminum starts losing strength around 400°F and you need to get zinc around 1000°F to pour well.

Artilleryman · « **Reply #7 on:** September 10, 2006, 11:55:48 AM »

The cost for the energy to melt the iron is more also.

no guns here · « **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2006, 08:57:29 PM »

Thanks guys... Great information!!! I just don't know how they made the iron balls by the thousans for hundreds of years. I thought they used cast iron, am I wrong?

I've really got the burning desires for a cannon but it will be a while... don't know how the Air Force would take it when they show up to move my household goods and there is a cannon involved... at least a couple of more years until I punch out. Maybe I could break in with some of those little ones??? Gotta talk to the spouse about that one...

ngh

Rickk · « **Reply #9 on:** September 11, 2006, 01:57:45 AM »

even a "little one" with a one inch bore is a heck of a lot of fun, and some can fit in a large shoebox.

If you look in the "backyard cannon fun" thread you will see that they go well with household potted flower arrangements so your wife should be very happy with the whole thing

Artilleryman · « **Reply #10 on:** September 11, 2006, 06:09:13 AM »

They did make cast iron balls several hundred years. They had large foundries that were casting not only the projectiles, but the barrels also. It was relatively cheap and produced strong barrels and projectiles. Lead becomes too heavy to use in large guns, and both lead and zinc will gas cut on firing with service loads. Neither lead or zinc would be as effective on solid targets as iron.

Hobbists just cannot afford to make them out of cast iron.

Rickk · « **Reply #11 on:** September 11, 2006, 08:03:32 AM »

Another thing to remember is that, in the times gone by, the balls were hollow and filled with explosive and made to explode. Cast iron is going to explode better and send more shrapnel than soft lead.

Double D · « **Reply #12 on:** September 11, 2006, 09:07:23 AM »

Ther Governmment moves me every couple of years and the never even bat an eye at the cannons. Well maybe they groan a little at the mortar tube. They only get nervous when they see the guns and ammunition. They like it when I say that I am moving that.

Tropico · « **Reply #13 on:** September 15, 2006, 10:38:26 AM »

"Why build a cannon to fire something other than its original projectile ? " For fun. Also the cheaper it is to shoot the funner it gets. If it is built as it should be.,it can easily take Iron steel or lead projectiles.,its just as others here have mentioned., using those metals can be dangerous to work with and or expensive to manufactor. For example I have 3 dollars into 24 projectiles.,and if I was the one drinking the beer., Miller lite is only 13.00 at walmart for a 30 pak., + the concrete at 3.00 is still only .53 cents per projectile after you sober up for 30 rounds. Thats hard to beat.

I havent got a 2.7 caliber ball mold for my mortar., I will be needing a ball mold pretty soon however for ., 4 other calibers . Anyway I needed to make some projectiles for Saturdays shoot at my buddies farm. 24 cans .,1 bag of concrete., and some wire..., I did have left over concrete., it would seem 1 60lb bag = 36 12oz cans. (The wire is so we can tape a flag.., makes it real nice for tracking the flight) Cheers.

Blaster · « **Reply #14 on:** September 15, 2006, 02:56:29 PM »

Tropico...Thanks for the great picture and you were very thoughtful to include that BP can. Looks like with the size of that pooch guarding that equipment, there is very little worry about someone trying to abscond with your mortar.

Santa Dave · « **Reply #15 on:** September 17, 2006, 08:40:20 AM »

I went to the local fishing tackle pusher to look at 1 lb balls. I have a golfball bored cannon (1.687). I took my calipers, the 1lb ball is 1.8 (Must be zinc) I don't think a negative windage will work!

I remember somone here said they had a golfball mold. I'd sure like to have two or three zinc golfballs! One to put on a stick for a rammer, and a couple to show what this "Little" cannon can shoot!
Dave

Michael Az · « **Reply #16 on:** September 18, 2006, 05:03:14 AM »

I would also like to buy some zink golf balls. Maybe somebody could cast some for Dave and I.
Michael

jeeper1 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 18, 2006, 09:12:55 AM »

If they were reasonably priced I would be interested in some.

Double D · « **Reply #18 on:** September 18, 2006, 06:10:36 PM »

Why don't you go to one of our Board sponsors and have them make you a mould.

You can buy Zinc from one of the suppliers on the Cannon supply list or look on Ebay for zinc anodes. There is a guy going by Artone that I bought my zinc from that is good to do busines with. I don't know what the going rate for zinc is so I don't know if what he is asking is high aor low.

Buy two of his tear drops and you should at least based on George's round ball calculator be able to get almost 20 1/2 PDR balls .

Powder keg · « **Reply #19 on:** September 18, 2006, 06:20:40 PM »

I have a mold that I can cast lead balls that are golf ball sized. It's aluminum, so no zinc yet. This winter I want to build a couple steel molds for golfball sized shot:O)

Wes

Tropico · « **Reply #20 on:** September 29, 2006, 12:27:36 PM »

Blaster., Mr.Sparkles (The kids dawg) will carry off 4" cannon balls ., yet he is not interested in burying my conrete cans....., which is cool. He does patrol his yard and guards the artillery however he sits and stares up into the sky at the birds from time to time with an almost hatred and would seem offended that they have air-superiority over what he believes is his air space....,

..., He is a weird puppy !

Blaster · « **Reply #21 on:** September 29, 2006, 02:57:47 PM »

Quote from: Tropico on September 29, 2006, 12:27:36 PM

Blaster., Mr.Sparkles (The kids dawg) will carry off 4" cannon balls ., yet he is not interested in burying my conrete cans....., which is cool. He does patrol his yard and guards the artillery however he sits and stares up into the sky at the birds from time to time with an almost hatred and would seem offended that they have air-superiority over what he believes is his air space...., ..., He is a weird puppy !

Nice doggie Mr. Sparkles, nice doggie!