Author Topic: RCBS Piggybck II - Progressive Reloader  (Read 504 times)

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Offline Land_Owner

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RCBS Piggybck II - Progressive Reloader
« on: September 10, 2006, 01:51:21 AM »
Simple machine, complicated function.  Good thinking went into its construction to make it easy to use, reliable in performance, and consistent in output.

There were a lot of variables to overcome.  To name a few:  a.) "system wobble" within the three legged supports as the ram is extended to its complete height; b.) "system torque" when the Index Rod is driven through the Index Bushing;  c.) precise alignment of shell plate and die - each and every time; d.) parts becoming loose during the operation; e.) use of dies that were made recently and a half century ago; and f.) the most unknown variable of them all (human element) the Reloader.

Progressive Reloading is inherently dangerous as there is no absolute way to be sure that the round you have made will: 1.) fit in the chamber (except to put it there); 2.) reliably feed from magazine to chamber (except to shoot a few);  3.) go "bang" when the trigger is pulled; 4.) not blow up your gun and hand except for the care and attention to detail of the Reloader.  That attention to detail is the point of commencement for this thread.

I made about 500 rounds of 45 LC with +/- 10 year old RCBS carbide dies and the Piggyback II performed flawlessly.  I changed caliber and am experiencing a timing/alignment malfunction with 45+/- year old RCBS carbide dies in 45 ACP. 

The Piggyback II is new (to me anyway).  All fixed parts have been checked for tightness and it is noted that the Piggyback II is not set up for a separate case sizing die and a spent primer/bell case mouth die.  I solved that idiosyncracy by separately resizing all cases first.  Had to set up twice and handle all cases twice but that is still better than the alternative. 

During problematic resizing operation, when the operating handle is lowered, the 45 ACP case wall usually hang up on the mouth of the die.  They are not properly aligned by as much as 1/64".  The case must then be wobbled in the shell holder (#03) while simultaneously lowering/depressing the operating handle to get correct alignment.

Reconfiguring to the die stationing #1- to remove spent primers/bell the case mouth/insert new primer; #3-charge case with powder; #4-seat the bullet, and #5-crimp the case I note misalignment at not only station #1 but also station #4.  Wobbling two cases at one time while lowering/depressing the operating handle is not a way to instill confidence that the rounds I am making are the rounds I want to put through my 1911.

Questions

A.)  Are current RCBS carbide dies more "forgiving" in their constrction?
B.)  Were older RCBS dies made to tighter throat tolerance?
C.)  What am I missing that is creating/contributing to this misalignment?

I wanted to SEARCH all 123 pages of this Board for previous similar threads in hopes of discovering LESSONS LEARNED with the Piggyback II and thus attempt to not make the same mistakes, but SEARCH is currently disabled so I am hopeful that you will reiterate your experiences.

In the mean time, I struggled through and have 42 rounds made in 45 ACP and will be "testing" my reloading prowess this afternoon.  All 42 "thrown" powder charges from the press were hand weighed and fall below the Speer manual upper limit for 45 ACP.  Yes, this was laborious and time consuming, however the Piggyback II/45 ACP function is new to me and I like my gun, but particularly I like my hands.  My confidence is not so high that I am ready to believe I am "automatically" doing it right.


Offline Questor

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Re: RCBS Piggybck II - Progressive Reloader
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2006, 03:06:03 AM »
Dillon makes their dies to accommodate variations in alignment. I used an RCBS die in a Dillon press and did have occasional hangups like you describe. Switching to the Dillon solve the problem.

By the way, progressive reloading is no more inherently dangerous than any other kind of reloading. If you're having problems that you believe introduce some level of danger in your process, then there is something very seriously wrong with your machine and it either needs to be repaired by the factory or replaced with something better.
Safety first

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: RCBS Piggybck II - Progressive Reloader
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2006, 07:25:24 AM »
I don't own a Dillon so Dillon related comments do not apply.

If you believe a statistically insignificant population of made rounds can beat that of an unflenching factory machine, then that is your opinion.  If the factory machine made rounds SPECIFICALLY for your rifle, their production run would make your handloading useless.  One or two handloading errors in several thousand rounds would equate to MILLIONS of facotry rounds being made improperly.

Another anology:  Medical students are taught how to make 1 liter (1000 ml) of sterile water and to fill and seal 100 ml glassine vials for its storage.  Prior to your operation, would you prefer they use their sample to clean instruments to that of our Pharmacies which make 10's of millions of gallons of sterile water at one time?  The presence of bacteria (errors) in a small and limited sample (say 1 per 1000ml = one in one-thousand) is stageringly large compared to the Pharmaceutical tolerance of 1 per 100 trillion.

Offline Catfish

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Re: RCBS Piggybck II - Progressive Reloader
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2006, 11:24:47 AM »
 Why did you get the press if you think it is unsafe?????? I load on a Dillon, but had a good friend of mine that used the piggy back for seversal years before he got a Dillon. He likes the Dillon far beter, but he had no trouble with piggy back that would cause a dangerious load and he did not resize seperately. Maybe you need some help getting it set up.

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: RCBS Piggybck II - Progressive Reloader
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2006, 05:00:34 PM »
OK.  You throw SAFETY out the window with a Dillon.  Got it.  No need to worry about a thing.  Dillon is fool proof for the fool hardy.  Check!

I prefer to proceed carefully with progressive reloading until I become more comfortable, but not so comfortable that I take your Dillon attitude.

Good for your friend and his PB.  I do need some questions answered. 

Thanks for your post, which tells me NOTHING about what I asked.

Offline Questor

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Re: RCBS Piggybck II - Progressive Reloader
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2006, 03:35:56 AM »
Landowner:

You asked whether RCBS makes dies that are more forgiving. I volunteered that Dillon does. Take it for what it's worth. The Dillon dies will fit an RCBS press.
Safety first

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: RCBS Piggybck II - Progressive Reloader
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2006, 07:12:58 AM »
Questor:  You are right.  I saw "Dillon" and jumped to the wrong conclusion regarding that portion of your post (re: die replacement).

From another Board I received the necessary Handloading information that related directly to the PB II problem at hand and it was solved immediately.

Thread End...

Offline Questor

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Re: RCBS Piggybck II - Progressive Reloader
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2006, 07:27:41 AM »
Land Owner:

What was the solution? I don't have a Piggyback, but it is an interesting product. Have you loaded enough ammo with it that you're confident that it's going to be alright?
Safety first

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: RCBS Piggybck II - Progressive Reloader
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2006, 03:11:56 PM »
From the first response to my post on http://www.pistolsmith.com/ Misc. Hardware / Reloading /


Quote
Lester Wang Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:28 am     

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I have a Pro 2000 which is similar to your reloader. Take off the shell plate and check the spring/ball bearing that makes a detent lock for the shell plate. Also make sure that the shell plate is flat. I can put mine back on accidentally with a 8-10 degree tilt causing what you describe.

I shot up the 42 "test" rounds Sunday evening with zero defects.  Following Lester's instructions above, I reset the shell plate and all worked well.  Last night, during the (boring) 2nd Quarter of the Raider game, I made 100 more 45 ACP rounds.  The PB II is working well, set up correctly (now), and my confidence is restored.  I would want only for the PB II to handle longer OAL cartridges.  Shooting my 1911 has taken on a new dimension.