Author Topic: Black powder loads . . .  (Read 953 times)

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Offline Old Griz

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Black powder loads . . .
« on: September 15, 2006, 07:51:34 PM »
Ordered some GOEX Black Dawge cartridges that came today. This will be my first adventure in the world of black powder. Probably won't get to shoot them for a couple of weeks. However, before I do, I need some guidance and advice. I've never fired black powder loads before, and I'm not sure how I'm supposed to clean the gun after I shoot them. Same as regular loads? They are also the dirtiest things I have ever seen. Ya want to clean the cartridges before they even go into the cylinder. Are they always like this?
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Offline Bad Flynch

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Re: Black powder loads . . .
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2006, 06:06:33 AM »
Weapons that have been fired with black powder should be cleaned with hot, soapy water and rinsed with water as hot as can be handled safely--boiling water is preferred. Boiling water will heat the steel and drive away most of the moisture; then apply a water displacing lube.

Recently, I have been using an oil-in-water emulsion made with 1 part Ballistol and 10 parts distilled water. It forms a milky substance much like the soluble machine oils. I clean the gun with the emulsion, wipe it off, dry it and then spray with straight Ballistol. It seems to work well and I have yet to have any corrosion problems.

The ammo should not be that dirty. However, BP ammo may discolor a lot. Simply wipe the stuff down before firing.

Offline mykeal

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Re: Black powder loads . . .
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2006, 11:19:59 AM »
Just a quick note to agree with and amplify what Bad Flynch said. HOT soapy water, ONLY. Rinse with HOT water. Some people dry with hair dryers, some in warm ovens, and some, like me, with dry cotton and lots of effort. Anti-corrosion stuff AFTER all is dry. Do not mix black powder residue, with petroleum-based cleaning materials; it's not harmful but it's messy. Original formula black powders, like Goex, are corrosive, and so cleaning MUST be done the same day as shooting, or pretty darn close. The synthetics (777) are much less corrosive and can stay in the gun longer. However, I'm not aware of any commercially available synthetic BP cartridges.

Offline leverfan

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Re: Black powder loads . . .
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2006, 02:41:10 PM »
I guess I'll pitch in my two cents here.  I've never shot factory black powder cartridges, so I don't know how dirty the factory loads are, but my loads look just like any other shiny loads.  They do smell more, though, because of the soft natural lube used with black powder.  If there's actual grit or lube on the cases, I'd wipe them off before firing.  Otherwise, I'd just shoot them. 

Real black powder does not instantly rust your guns.  Lots of guys that shoot black regularly wait up to a week before they get around to cleaning, with no ill effects.  Most of the corrosion and pitting seen in older black powder firearms was caused by the corrosive primers that were in use at that time, and that's no longer a problem.  Black powder fouling does draw moisture out of the air, so it will eventually rust uncleaned firearms. 

It also turns your spent brass green, unless you clean it in warm water with a bit of soap.  Just shake your fired cases in a jug half full of soapy water, and leave them in there over night.  The next day, dump them out and rinse them off. Sometimes I brush out the insides, but you don't really need to if they've soaked for a bit.  Dry them in a 200 degree oven for 15 or 20 minutes, dump them into your tumbler for a while, and your brass will be all shiny and clean with no green.  My blackpowder reloads look like brand new sparkling factory ammo (which makes it easier for brass pickers to find my cases and get all my brass back to me, so it's worth a little effort).

Now, for cleaning the guns.  I like warm water with a little Dawn in it.  I swab out the barrel, wash up the cylinder, and wipe the exposed surfaces of my revolvers with a damp rag.  They'll clean up pretty easy, especially if you were careful to remove ALL previous fouling from smokeless loads before you started shooting black powder.  After the soapy water, wipe everything with damp patches with a little clean water, then dry with clean dry patches.  If you miss a little fouling, or there's some inside the action, don't worry.  A good dose of oil will prevent any rust.  The oil prevents the fouling from drawing water out of the air and renders it pretty much harmless.  I only detail strip my blackpowder guns once or twice a year, and none of them have rusted at all.  I oil with Breakfree CLP, and it's been working very well for me and several other black powder shooters.  Even Ballistol contains petroleum based products in it, so don't be too scared of using a little CLP to keep the rust off, especially if it's easier to find in your neck of the woods.  Clean up is a snap, even when the gun was left oily with CLP right up until firing.

Blackpowder subs are not entirely non-rusting for guns, although most don't leave nearly so much fouling.  Some are harder on brass than real black, and most draw moisture from the air, leading to rust, just like blackpowder.  Pyrodex seems to cause the most serious trouble with rusting of any propellent I've ever used, so I don't use it at all anymore, and haven't for years.

Yesterday, I shot a total of 205 black powder handloads through 4 different firearms, and that's a pretty typical weekend for me.  I also shot about 100 rounds in practice on Friday, from 3 different firearms.  I cleaned all the guns and got them match ready today, and it wasn't any big deal.  You sure can't wipe the gray-black smokeless powder fouling off of a cylinder face with just a quick swipe with a damp rag, but a black powder fired gun will shine up like new. 
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Offline Old Griz

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Re: Black powder loads . . .
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2006, 04:44:07 PM »
Thanks guys. Should I do anything with the gun before I shoot these loads in it for the first time? It's clean, but it's "regular load" clean. Is there something I should do to prevent it from gunking up as much? (Gosh do I sound paranoid, or what?!!?)
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Offline leverfan

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Re: Black powder loads . . .
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2006, 05:35:56 PM »
No, it'll be fine.  If it doesn't get spit-shine clean with just soap and water after your blackpowder shooting, that means there was still some fouling from hard lube/smokeless powder.  A little Hoppe's #9 will take care of that.  Shooting real black, and cleaning up after, is really easy.  It's also a heck of a lot of fun.  You get flames and a better kaboom than any of the substitute powders can provide.  Goex does offer a line of factory loads using Pinnacle powder, a slightly hotter version of APP that's made for them by APP.
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Offline Old Griz

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Re: Black powder loads . . .
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2006, 05:53:55 PM »
Again, thanks guys. I'm really looking forward to shooting these loads. They're kinda expensive ($27 a box), so I guess I won't be doin' it too often. But heck, ya only live once! And when ya get my age ya gotta think, "If not now, when?"
Griz
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I Cor. 2.2 "For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified."

Offline Dan Chamberlain

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Re: Black powder loads . . .
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2006, 01:33:12 PM »
I load .45 Colt, .44 Special and .44-40 with 777.  It loads like BP but burns a ton cleaner and has a bit more energy.  I get shot to shot consistency with no fouling or binding.  My .44-40 Henry loves it.  Recoil with the .44 Special Cimarron is stout and the accuracy is the same as with my smokeless loads.  I load a cast bullet with regular lube (no special bp lube) and no base protection.  Leading is not an issue as far as I have been able to determine.  The only real difference is, I try not to compress the load more than 1/16th of an inch. 

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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Black powder loads . . .
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2006, 11:39:50 PM »
I carry a bottle of window cleaner to the field and give my guns a quick cleaning when im done shooting and then if im not going to shoot the gun for more then a week clean it properly at home. But windex or an equivilent will clean them up pretty well in the field.
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Offline Ifishsum

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Re: Black powder loads . . .
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006, 06:25:42 PM »
I clean my Gaucho real good, then pretreat the bore and cylinder fronts with Bore Butter before I fire BP and BP sub cartridges.  So far the fouling has come out much easier than I expected, pretty much just a few patches soaked with BP compatible cleaner, windex or 409.  I haven't tried it any other way, so take it FWIW.

Offline Black Jaque Janaviac

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Re: Black powder loads . . .
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2006, 12:19:36 PM »
I roll my own .38 spl loads with BP.  I get pretty good velocity too.  I think I was getting 900+ fps with 158 grain bullets out of 6.5 inches of barrel.

I will grease the basepin real good with Crisco before I shoot BP loads.  I didn't grease the basepin once and it got rather difficult to cock after a cylinder or two. 

I use Swiss powder and have found it to be very mild in terms of corrosivity.  If I can't get to cleaning it promptly, I just drench the gun with WD-40 and it's good for many weeks.  Then I wash her good and clean with hot soapy water. 

Despite what the wives-tales tell you, it ain't sulfuric acid that corrodes BP guns.  It's residual chlorides.  If a black powder is made with poor quality saltpeter it can contain a high amount of chloride as an impurity (leftover from the potassium chloride used to make potassium nitrate).  The chloride ions can operate in an endless cycle of oxidizing iron when moisture and oxigen are present which will pit metall quickly.

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