35 Whelen- More Problems...

[HUNTS]

I went back to the range today with my handloads and the chronograph.  Of 16 handloads I had 3 misfires.  All were full length resized with RCBS dies.  I then tried a new box of Remington 200 grain Core lokts.  Of 20 rounds 8 were misfires.  You could see that the firing pin was striking lightly on the primers and was way off center.

All this after the gun was just sent off to NEF for misfires and frame locking up.  Needless to say I am really disappointed right now.  I can't elk hunt with this gun the way things stand right now.  I'm not excited to crate the thing off to NEF gain as I feel like it should have been dealt with properly the first time.  It's another $25 to send it back and I don't trust NEF to fix the problem.

So do I send it back to NEF and hope they can fix the problem or dump the gun at one of the local pawn shops and cut my losses???

I'd post my results of different bullets with dry newspaper stacks later if anyone is interested.  Right now I'm too bummed out about this gun to bother though.

[.308 Win.]

I don't know when your season starts but if it were me and I wanted it fixed to use on your elk hunt, I'd take it to a 'smith and have it fixed the right way.  I'd have the 'smith put on paper what was wrong with it and then send that back to NEF and let them know they didn't fix it right the first time.  Might be a long shot but they might reimburse you but then again, maybe not but it will let them know they didn't get it right the first time and then follow up on it.  When manufacturers don't make good on their products, that's bad p.r. so I'd make sure I kept on after them.  Sometimes the dog that barks the loudest gets the bone.  Good luck and good luck on your elk hunt.  Wish I were going after them.  We've got an established herd here in Kentucky, the Eastern mountainous area that's supposed to be the largest herd this side of the Mississippi.  Maybe one day I will get a draw on them.   

[mattparliament]

Here you go, I hope this helps.  My whelen was having misfire problems with the same factory ammo and this is what I found.  Apparently the shoulders are cut a bit deep on these new barrels and when I pushed the cartridge in some would "sink" past flush on the breech end of the barrel.  When I sorted the factory loads and also my hand loads it was easy to determine the ones that would fire or misfire, anything past flush was questionable, anything that pressed flush would fire, this is a quick easy test that may reassure reliability with the season approaching.  I would test this theory with your rifle and if it works get through the season and send the thing off in the winter time.  My 2 cents....

[handirifle]

The last barrel I got for my Handi was a 280 Rem.  No missfires but very inaccurate and every primer strike was way off center too.  I traded everyone of them off.  Sorry to sound negative, but there was nothing short of a new barrel going to fix the problem, and this barrel was brand new.  I got tired of waiting weeks for repairs and barrel changes.

A smith cannot fix your offcenter strikes cause it has to do with the way the barrel lug is mounted on the barrel.  IF a smith fixes anything without their approval first it will void your warranty.

[HUNTS]

The last barrel I got for my Handi was a 280 Rem.  No missfires but very inaccurate and every primer strike was way off center too.  I traded everyone of them off.  Sorry to sound negative, but there was nothing short of a new barrel going to fix the problem, and this barrel was brand new.  I got tired of waiting weeks for repairs and barrel changes.

A smith cannot fix your offcenter strikes cause it has to do with the way the barrel lug is mounted on the barrel.  IF a smith fixes anything without their approval first it will void your warranty.

handirifle,

Right now I tend to agree with you.  This gun probably needs a new barrel.  The problem is that NEF should have done it right when I sent it back three weeks ago.  I'm going to call them tomorrow and try and speak with someone in the shop.  If they say that they will REALLY take care of the problem I'll send it back.  If they give me the run around then it goes down the road.
I still have my Tikka 7mm-08 and Remington pump 308 so I can still go hunting.  BTW, the 200 grain TSX at 2700 fps penetrated 10.5" of dry newspaper and had picture perfect expansion.  It out penetrated and out performed(retained more weight) than the 250 grain Speer and 250 Nosler Partition.  The Remington 200 grain Core Lokts were also very respectable.  They had about 15% less penetration but held together well.  They also expanded the most of all the bullets and we all agreed that they probably would have had the most destructive effect on soft tissue.

Dry newspaper tests are usually considered to be much tougher on bullets than wet newspapers.  Some people liken it to the combined effects of soft tissue and bone.

[quickdtoo]

HUNTS, I would call em tomorrow and ask for Gordon, explain to him exactly what's happening and ask that it be fixed, also ask for them to pick up the cost of return shipping which you should have done the first time, they'll either offer to reimburse you or issue a call tag for UPS to pick it up. You should also include a detailed note to Jon the gunsmith so he knows exactly what the problem is. If they can't fix it with either a new barrel, ask for a refund, it's been done before. Just be nice when you talk to them, or you won't be happy with the results.

Tim

[HUNTS]

quickdtoo,

Thanks for the advice.  I'll do as you suggest and see how it goes.  Fingers crossed.

[quickdtoo]

Be sure to use the toll free number in the FAQ if you missed it!! I think a lot of the problems with getting stuff done right is due to communication tween us and the gunsmiths at H&R, the note should help that issue. You might follow up with the trigger too, but they might not make it any lighter, than it is already.


Tim

[handirifle]

Hunts I agree with Quick.  Give him a chance to make it right (this time).  When I had a problem with my Henry 22 levergun, it was picked up by their order, and back at my door in ONE WEEK.  That was what the company President Anthony Imperato, promissed and that was what he delivered.

I ended up having to send it back a second time for a related issue.  One week later a new rifle arrived at my door.  That one worked flawlessly.

NEF should do the same for you.

[safetysheriff]

i had a problem with a .223 NEF that was not hitting the primers on center.   i started closing the action with a greater measure of 'gusto', so that it locked up tighter.......and the primers were hit closer to the center.    it had been my fault for not closing the action with a little more 'muscle'.

i think we sometimes forget that we get some good metal in these rifles.  we may think that we won't because they sell so inexpensively.  but the metal is good; and it can take an energetic closing of the action.

i lube my hinge pin and the front of the ejector housing on my NEF's with molybdenum disulfide-type automotive grease to keep the pin and the housing from wearing out.   it has worked very well so far!

take care,

ss' 

[jerkface11]

 You didn't say what kind of primers you were using. But I'm betting they're CCI since i've had the same problem with CCI primers in several different guns. The firing pin just leaves a scuffed spot. I thought my firing pin spring was bad till i tried some ammo with winchester primers and they went off every time.

[acloco]

I believe the cases are being sized too much.

Have you measured a fired case from your rifle and compared to new brass or full length size brass?

I use the Stoney Point gauge to set the dies on everything that I reload - from 17 Remington to 300 Win Mag.  You will be surprised how much a 1/4 turn of the dies make.

Your brass will last longer as well.

[HUNTS]

Jerkface11,

The primers are Federal 215.  The same primers I've used now for almost 10 years without a problem.  I'm not sure what primers are in the Remington factory loads but they have never been a problem either.

acloco,

My handloads were one timed resize from factory Remington loads.  Brand new Remington factory loads are the worst offenders.  40% of them misfired.

I talked with Jon over at NEF today. Gordon is out until Wed.  They are paying for return shipping and will check out the rifle.  They are unable to figure out if the misfire issue was or was not fixed the first time.  Their paperwork seemds to indicate that it may not have been.  Jon said they will  rebarrel or send a new receiver if necessary. Fingers still crossed.

[quickdtoo]

Good to hear!! Just for info, there are 2 Johns at H&R, John in CS and Jon the gunsmith, just to avoid any confusion.

Tim

[G Curtis]

I recently had a problem with misfires on a 17 HMR handi rifle. On close examination of the firing pin strikes I found that the notch in the hammer that hits the transfer bar was cut too deep. It would not push the firing pin to it's full reach into the chamber, the hammer nose hitting the frame prevented it. I carefully filed a little off the hammer nose until the hammer/transfer bar would fully extend the firing pin, IE the transfer bar was pressed flush against the frame. No more misfires. Not saying this is your problem but it is worth looking at.

[Sourdough]

The only problem I've had with any of my Handi's was with my .35 Whelen.  I misfired several times the first time I took it to the range.  It would fire my handloads fine but would not fire factory loads.  I returned it to NEF with a note of what it was doing.  It was fixed and have had no problem with it since.

[lik2hunt]

Hunts
What Quick has told you is correct, they will make it right or refund your money if you still have the original purchase receipt. They did one for me. Had a BIG problematic 25-06 and was refunded the total purchase price + the cost of an extra .223 barrel. 
Wished success on your dealings with them.

[HUNTS]

Rifle went back to NEF yesterday.  I'll let you all know how things go when I get it back.

Phone conversations with NEF have been very positive.