Author Topic: Bergara Barrels for the Encore ? (Read 27237 times)

Keith L · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2006, 03:08:33 AM »

It appears that they are made in Spain. I don't know about this company specifically, but my experience with Spanish guns has not been overall positive. YMMV

buffalohunter · « **Reply #3 on:** September 26, 2006, 02:18:24 PM »

If it is made in Spain it is just like being made in France, you couldn't give me one. Usually something to good to be true usually is.

olsingleshot · « **Reply #4 on:** October 01, 2006, 11:38:06 AM »

Bergara barrels are extruded instead of milled thus a barrel with far less stress. Austin and Halleck uses them and they shoot great. I will definitely try them.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #5 on:** October 01, 2006, 12:07:08 PM »

Please correct me if I am wrong.....but if a barrel is extruded, doesn't that give the metal less strength to withstand higher pressures?

Austin & Halleck make black powder guns so higher pressures are not as significant (and I'm not saying "of no importance") as barrels that shoot smokless powders.

The reason the barrels are less expensive than milled barrels are because they are extruded. Less labor and machine time....ie: cheaper to make.

So, I think I'll take a wait and see approach before I buy and extruded spanish made barrel and put it 6" from my head.

Oh, just read this article on cheap extruded spanish made barrels: http://www.chuckhawks.com/dangerous_muzzleloaders.htm

Dave

Ireload2 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 01, 2006, 02:38:10 PM »

"Bergara barrels are extruded instead of milled"

What the heck does this mean?
The only way a barrel get milled is if it is octagon or is fluted.

Round barrels are manufactured by drilling, reamiing, rifling and turning. There is no milling in the basic process.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #7 on:** October 01, 2006, 05:28:15 PM »

Ireload2,

You raise a good point. Perhaps the word "milling" is technically incorrect and was used as a generic term to infer "drilling, reaming, turning, ect." This "process" of barrel making, as I understand it, is done on a piece of raw material of "bar stock" steel made from metals that are composed of specific componets as required by the gun maker.

Extrusion, as I understand it, is a process of forcing metal thru a "die" to make a barrel. Just like the play dough machine squeezing material through a hole to make solid spaghetti, but with one very important difference. In order to make the tubing there are 2 dies used, one in front of the other. Then the rifling is "machined" into the extrued barrel and your done.

You gotta figure something has to be quicker in order for them to sell the barrel for less.....'cause they certainly are not gonna lose money or give 'em away.

Dave

motivationteam · « **Reply #8 on:** October 02, 2006, 10:24:41 AM »

My thought are that exrtuded means that they are button rifled (a button is pulled through the barrel blank to leave the rifling grooves) vs. cutt rifled where the rifling is milled and cut.

I have hear good things about Bergara Barrels and I for one will be anxious to see how they do. I will be a guinne pig. I am going to order a .223 when they come out.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #9 on:** October 02, 2006, 03:14:03 PM »

I look at it like this: If I'm going to spend $179 on an unproven button pulled extruded barrell, then I might as well spend another $50 and buy a good quality proven, backed by Thompson Center barrell.

Or you can save your $50 and send your $179 to Spain.

Oh, I don't own Honda's or Toyota's either. It's a principle thing.

Graybeard · « **Reply #10 on:** October 02, 2006, 05:26:15 PM »

Actually Hondas are made right here in Alabama just a few miles down the road from me. They have two or maybe by now it's three manufacturing plants in operation and more in the works. When they are finished with the construction there will be a total of FIVE plants working 24 hours a day making Honda's in Talldega County, Alabama. Toyotas are made in GA. BTW BMWs are also made here in Bama, just outside of Tuscaloosa. I think it's Hyundia that is also opening up operations here.

They use more American parts these days than many American brand cars do. Sad but true.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2006, 12:28:22 AM »

GB, Yeah....Volkswagen of America use to bulid cars less than 20 minutes from where I live. I had a bunch of friends that use to work there.

At one point, I even had the opportunity to get a plant tour and watch how they put those cars together. It was quite fascinating.

However, VW sales lagged and after all of the tax breaks that the State gave VW, and the local municipalities gave VW (property taxes) and about 15 years of making cars, VW decided to pull the plug on their North Ameircan operations. So, one day it was just all over. The car haulers that use to look like a bee hive were just lined up and dormant....until they were sold and the lot turned into "empty" and then into "empty and weedy".

So, I still buy and will continue to buy Chevy's and Ford's. (Yeah both....so I can argue either side!!!). I do know that these companies are global as well. However, I also know that if these companies have successive bad years, and plants close, they are still going to stay right here in the USA. And when times get better, they are going to re-open right here in the USA.

When VW left, they sold everything and took their money and put it in a bank in Germany.

Economics are what economics are, but every Honda that is made in Alabama and every Toyota that is made in Ga. keeps the Osaka Stock Exchange ticker on the upbeat. And the last time I looked, my pension plan had investments in the NYSE, not the OSE.

So, as "good" as those foreign investments appear to the local economy, if the sales end doesn't work out, there can be a bad side to it on a loca level. In addition, That foreign investment erodes the fundamental infrastructure of the US automotive manufacturing base.

My son lives in the Detroit area and I visit him often. The old saying goes "as the auto industry goes, so goes the economy". Well, I will say that if you drive thru and around Detroit, and read the local papers, you will find that saying to be true.

So, I will not buy a Honda or a Toyota. Nor will I buy a Bergara.

Dave

Keith L · « **Reply #12 on:** October 03, 2006, 02:38:54 AM »

Why must American manufacturers move massive parts of their production to Asia, when the transplants come to this country and move their parts suppliers within 150 miles of the plant? Toyota has a couple of cars that have nearly 100% American content. I wish the Big 3 would follow suit.

I hope someone does try and report on this new barrel, but I agree with Davemuzz that I likely won't own one.

Quote from: Graybeard on October 02, 2006, 05:26:15 PM

Actually Hondas are made right here in Alabama just a few miles down the road from me. They have two or maybe by now it's three manufacturing plants in operation and more in the works. When they are finished with the construction there will be a total of FIVE plants working 24 hours a day making Honda's in Talldega County, Alabama. Toyotas are made in GA. BTW BMWs are also made here in Bama, just outside of Tuscaloosa. I think it's Hyundia that is also opening up operations here.

They use more American parts these days than many American brand cars do. Sad but true.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #13 on:** October 03, 2006, 03:24:15 AM »

Keith,

I don't want to get into a whizzin contest, 'because I can tell just by your by-line you like beer. And I like beer. So....whizzin could last a long time between the two of us. Yep.....I'm talkin a really long time. But I'm sure we could have a good conversation and end up as damn good friends. The bar tab would be high...but I've always said the bar business is tough and those guys have to make a livin too!

However, I don't know where your statitics are commin from. Yes it is true that the big 3 have moved some of their part production facilities to other countries. I'm not going to try to defend their management, but economics are economics. If it were your business and you can make a wheel in Detroit for $4 or in Mexico for $1.25, where are you going to make it? GM has a stamping plant that is 45 minutes from my house. It's been there for 30 years. Hasn't moved yet. But the economics are still viable. When that plant no longer makes sense to GM....they will close it. But the Union workers there know this. So far, it's still open.

The Big 3 havn't moved all of it. Yep some of it. But what they have done still doesn't make me want to run out and buy a Honda or a Toyota. Talk to me in ten years.....maybe I'll change my mind. But in 10 years I will have bot at least 3 new Chevys or Fords. (No Chryslers...I bot two of those and didn't buy the optional X-tra transmissions

)

Dave

nomosendero · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2006, 04:52:26 AM »

On the Ford part you may need to buy soon to help them out.

Anyway, does anyone actually know about the quality of these barrels, tests, etc.? I think that is the question.

EdK · « **Reply #15 on:** October 03, 2006, 03:42:45 PM »

I'm no metallurgist but I suspect the "extruded" vs "milled" is all about the how the round bar stock is shaped before it is recognizeable as a barrel - not octagon milled flats or flutes, not drilled, not button, broached or otherwise rifled.

Raw round steel is stock generally cold or hot rolled - of course it could be extruded through a die like spaghetti...

On the other topic in this thread, Nissan just announced it is planning moving significant amounts of US based production offshore to save on labor costs. How do you like that?

Davemuzz · « **Reply #16 on:** October 04, 2006, 06:35:25 AM »

Quote from: EdK on October 03, 2006, 03:42:45 PM

On the other topic in this thread, Nissan just announced it is planning moving significant amounts of US based production offshore to save on labor costs. How do you like that?

Another reason to "See your Chevy dealer today"

Dave

Keith L · « **Reply #17 on:** October 04, 2006, 10:17:30 AM »

There is a sticker on the side of each new car that tells the North American content of the vehicle. If buying new that is the first place I would look.

Just to set the record straight I have four vehicles: 3 Fords and one GMC. I try to support both American labor and American capitol. Frequently these days it is hard.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #18 on:** October 04, 2006, 03:11:05 PM »

Keith,

Yeah....but I think North America includes Canada and Mexico!!!! So....It aint just the US of A!!

Dave

encore3006 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 04, 2006, 05:02:37 PM »

nomosendero · « **Reply #20 on:** October 04, 2006, 05:23:35 PM »

Quote from: encore3006 on October 04, 2006, 05:02:37 PM

After all this, I ask the question,

Does the rain in Spain fall mainly on the plain?

Well, it's just as relevant.

Tn Jim · « **Reply #21 on:** October 04, 2006, 05:25:40 PM »

Yeah it does. If it's in the mountains it's usually called snow!

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #22 on:** October 04, 2006, 06:24:51 PM »

When you extrude metal you are forcing the metal through a metal die such as the old Playdough toys did. Aluminum window frames are a more common item that is extruded. Some steal shapes are also extruded such as some of the weaker angle iron shapes. I do not know if they are including the hole in the barrel in the process but in aluminum and other metals it is entirely possible.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #23 on:** October 05, 2006, 03:40:00 AM »

This is a technical question for TN Jim: If you extrude barrels up in the mountains of Spain, is that know as "cold extrusion"?

Because inquiring minds need to know this stuff!

Dave.

buffalohunter · « **Reply #24 on:** October 06, 2006, 10:46:27 AM »

A foriegn car can be made in America but it is still a foriegn car, I am always amazed how people who buy foriegn cars always say it is made in America. If you build a Ford in Germany is it a German car, not likely. So if you buy a foriegn car don't be ashamed of it just tell everybody you prefer a foriegn car to American built.

Have a good day

Davemuzz · « **Reply #25 on:** October 07, 2006, 05:14:44 PM »

Yeah,,,,well you were a Dodge guy....ya see, that was your problem.

Tn Jim · « **Reply #26 on:** October 07, 2006, 10:39:41 PM »

Well Dave, I had't thought about it before, but I guess it would be.

Buffalohunter,not trying to ruffle your feathers, but they do build Fords in Germany. And they look nothing like the ones here. Even the names are different except for the Escort, and there it's a Ford, not Murcury, Capri and the two look nothing alike.

Keith L · « **Reply #27 on:** October 08, 2006, 04:45:14 AM »

It is hard to define an "American" car these days he said leaving the topic of Bergara Barrels for the Encore in the dust once again. A Toyota made in Georgetown Kentucky by all American workers using more parts made in America than any other car is by many people's definition an American car even though it is made by a foreign owned company. I did lots of work for companies making parts for many of the foreign companies that are now making cars here, and many of them are moving their supply chains to America. I have also watched the American content of most cars made by Ford and GM dropping steadily the last few years. And many of the American cars we are seeing on the lots are made in Mexico. So what is an American car?

So, if you were to buy one of those Spanish barrels and take it home in an American pickup made by a Japanese company would there be less stress or more?

jamie · « **Reply #28 on:** October 08, 2006, 02:29:09 PM »

Quote from: Tn Jim on October 07, 2006, 10:39:41 PM

Well Dave, I had't thought about it before, but I guess it would be. Buffalohunter,not trying to ruffle your feathers, but they do build Fords in Germany. And they look nothing like the ones here. Even the names are different except for the Escort, and there it's a Ford, not Murcury, Capri and the two look nothing alike.

Pretty much exact. You can buy an Escort in Germany that has a 350hp engine with all wheel drive that will out handle and out run pretty much anything.

nomosendero · « **Reply #29 on:** October 09, 2006, 02:39:57 AM »

Great barrel info, keep it coming!!