Bergara Barrels for the Encore ?

[Davemuzz]

It's my most reverent hope that California soon plunges into the ocean.....and when it does, it reaches over and takes Arizona with it!

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

It's my most reverent hope that California soon plunges into the ocean.....and when it does, it reaches over and takes Arizona with it!

Im with you on that dave!

[nomosendero]

I speak pretty good English despite the fact that I am from AR.    I sent in my MZ barrel & it had a burr where the QLA (worthless) meets the rifling. It is better, but still not good. maybe I should send it in again.

Nomosendero---I am a bit unclear on which MZ barrel you have, but if your having an issue with any manufacturer's product, I would send it back until they get it right.

BTW, I missed your earlier post where you ask about who made T\C's Prohunter barrels. I do believe it is T\C. If I'm wrong, someone here will correct me. And your reference to Green River?? Do you mean Green Mountain barrel company? I don't know if there is any connection between T\C and Green Mountain.

Dave

Yes, Green Mountain & I don't know why I typed GR, maybe CCR was on the radio at the time!
Dave, I have the regular stainless Encore barrel, not a Pro Hunter. Yes, I may send it in again, I don't know.

You are right, it is TC that makes the Pro Hunter tubes. I called TC & not only do they make the Pro Hunter barrels, but the others as well. They
told me that Green Mountain only makes some of the octagon tubes for the Hawken, etc, actually replacement barrels. I was told that Green Mountain made their barrels, that turns out to be wrong.

Thanks Dave for clearing that up.

[Mac11700]

I look at it like this: If I'm going to spend $179 on an unproven button pulled extruded barrell, then I might as well spend another $50 and buy a good quality proven, backed by Thompson Center barrell.

Or you can save your $50 and send your $179 to Spain.

Oh, I don't own Honda's or Toyota's either. It's a principle thing.

The Elite barrels aren't extruded...They are made from 4140 Steel for the blued...and 416R for the Stainless...and the street price for them are around $160.00

Also...you don't need to speak Spanish to talk with the company...The guys that are in the customer service shop...are all easy going nice guys...who can answer you in good old English...since they are in Georgia...Give them a call...I'm sure they can set the record straight for ya...

Mac

[nomosendero]

If they speak English in Georgia I am not sure I can talk to them, I live in Arkansas !!! 

[Davemuzz]

The Elite barrels aren't extruded...They are made from 4140 Steel for the blued...and 416R for the Stainless...and the street price for them are around $160.00

Also...you don't need to speak Spanish to talk with the company...The guys that are in the customer service shop...are all easy going nice guys...who can answer you in good old English...since they are in Georgia...Give them a call...I'm sure they can set the record straight for ya...

Mac

Well, isn't it nice that they went and hired 4 or 5 good 'ol easy goin nice guys to answer any questions you may have about the barrels that are manufactured in Spain! You know, where the "real" jobs are at. The heavy manufacturing jobs and the distribution jobs and the plant maintenance jobs. Yeah....those ones....not the 5 easy goin guys in Georgia.

Thanks, but I'll spend the X-tra bucks and support the American guy who is running the machine, maintaining the machine, runnin the forklift in distribution and the other one in raw materials, and the guy who does plant maintenance because he has two kids in grade school and a house payment....right here in the USA.  Oh yeah...and the 5 easy goin guys who also answer any questions you may have about their product.

You send your money to Spain. Go ahead...it's your money.

Dave

[nomosendero]

Sounds like a plan!! I just received a 308 Bergara barrel for my OE that I will be getting in a couple of weeks. It will be in 50 cal MZ.
I will see how it fares against mt 100% US Encore. May the best shooter win!

[Davemuzz]

No hablo espanol.

[Davemuzz]

BTW,

Here is a good American made Stevens 200 in .308 will do at 100 yards. See if your spanish barrel will do better than this:

[nomosendero]

I have a couple of Rems & a AR that will do better if that counts!

[Davemuzz]

Nope! Remington....America's Oldest gunmaker! Has a nice ring....doesn't it!!!

Dave

[Mac11700]

Really now...What the heck does all these other gun manufactures have to do with a Bergera barrels. If you have never shot one...you don't know what your talking about...now do you..It doesn't matter i iota if you don't like Spanish guns or not..You really don't have a right to bad mouth a product just on your opinions...If you have first hand experience with them...then that changes things...If you don't..it's just a single opinion...

Rod...don't worry...I'll be shooting tomorrow afternoon..and I'll show him some of my groups..

Mac

[Davemuzz]

Really now...What the heck does all these other gun manufactures have to do with a Bergera barrels.

Well Mac,

You are absolutely missing the entire point here. This isn't just a conversation about gun barrels, it's a conversation about economics. You know, American jobs vs Foreign jobs. Go back to the very first page of this post and read. Then you will understand. This isn't about punching holes in paper, it's about supporting American companies that employ American people who have kids, car payments and mortgages.

Dave.

[Keith L]

You really don't have a right to bad mouth a product just on your opinions...

Last time I checked we were in America where we had a right to opinions.  Have the neo-cons removed that right also?  If not Dave has the right to his opinion, and you have the right to disagree.

[R.W.Dale]

You are absolutely missing the entire point here. This isn't just a conversation about gun barrels, it's a conversation about economics. You know, American jobs vs Foreign jobs. Go back to the very first page of this post and read. Then you will understand. This isn't about punching holes in paper, it's about supporting American companies that employ American people who have kids, car payments and mortgages.

 The last time I checked this thread WAS just about gun barrels not about socioeconomic's for some holier than thou hypocritical do gooders to give themselves a big pat on the back.


 I got a question for ya Dave, Where was your TV and microwave oven made?  Also you had better not eat any CHICKEN as I guarantee it was processed by nonUS citizens.




 The whole buy American BS is nothing but a wad of third rate propaganda to make the sheeple feel good about themselves. Cause there ain't a publicly trading company out there that isn't thinking about outsourcing it's labor overseas wither they are turning profit or not. I know I would be, lower labor costs = a fatter bottom line and in the end that's all ANY business in in it for.

[nomosendero]

Keith, of course we all have the right to express opinions. But a logical person will be more interested in facts than mere opinions that are not based on the facts. Early in this thread we had talk of the Bergara barrels being extruded, which turns out to not be the case
for the OE. That's the problem that I have with decisions based on opinions. I would rather make my decisions based on the facts.

Dave said that Mac missed the point, it isn't about gun barrels, but economics. I guess that is why the thread is titled "Begara Barrels
for the Encore" & why the original post asked about the barrels & NOTHING was asked about the economics. Here is the question asked.  "Does anyone have any information or experience with the Bergara barrels for the Encore, or any other firearm application?"
He goes on to mention the OE using these barrels which involves "any other firearm application".  NOTHING about economics was mentioned in the original post.  So instead of answering the original post, some tried to convert it to a foreign vs US thread.

Some may have felt it was time for the lecture, but I don't really need it. I drive 50-60,000 miles per year & have bought a bunch of cars & trucks, but not a foreign one yet & I am 54, so a lot of vehichles. As a matter of fact,I can't think of anything that I have purchased for over $1,000 that was not American, I am big on that. So I don't really need the lecture. If a person buys at Walmart, K-Mart or any other China Mart & complains about me buying 2 or 3 of these barrels, come on!! How long does it take to buy $160.00 of Chinese stuff at WM? And if my Encore had deliivered what I wanted the first time, I would not be trying a Bergara barrel now.

I am not done with my Encore or TC barrels at all. I have a couple of Pro Hunter barrels that I still want to try. I WILL post the results, Lord willing. I have a Contender Super 14 that is crazy accurate with it's 223 & 30-30AI barrels. My Contender is NOT for sale! I have had other TC's over the years & I like them alot. It appears that right now TC puts out some very good barrels & some that are not so good. Also, some report vert tight lockups & some do not. I hope these specs. tighten up a little & sometimes competition will make
that happen when nothing else can.

In a couple of weeks I will be pickng up a OE with a MZ barrel & a 270 tube. I have a 308 OE barrel in my safe that I ordered a couple of weeks ago. I will know soon how they perfom & I will post the results, god or bad on the proper forum. I will posts the results on the TC tubes in the future on this forum, but it will be awhile before I can do that.

Soooo, I am going to say the same thing that I said before & the statement that stirred things up, but shouldn't have. May the best one win!! That should not bother anyone who is actually looking for the truth & logical data. Of course, if you KNOW you have the best, this would not be a concern either. I am not emotionally attached to any gun company & I don't understand that thinking, but
I do believe you are entitled to it. So, let's see how it shakes.
 

[Davemuzz]

I'm emotionally attached to any American company that produces a good product. Smith & Wesson, T\C, Ruger, Springfield. I'm emotionally attached to any company that is foreign produced. I won't, or try not to buy 'em.

For those folks who have blinders on and refuse to see the economic impact of sending their dollars overseas, Just be happy that a foreign competitor doesn't price your job right to the unemployment line. Obviously those types of "facts" don't seem to bother those kind of people....you know....if it don't touch me, then it ain't real.

The last time I looked T\C was located in America. But hey, I was wrong once back in 1972.

Dave

BTW, my TV is a Sony. It was made in New Stanton Pa. You know, in the old converted V W plant. You know....the plant that brought so many wonderful jobs here....then 10 years later, after the tax breaks ran out....closed it's doors and took all it's money back to a German Bank. Yeah....all that prosperity.  Yeah.....that was it.  You know,,,the Sony plan that just last month decided to close and lay off 2500 this year, and then lay off another 2500 next year. So they could rebuild the line to a FULLY AUTOMATED line that requires no labor force. Yeah......foreign investment. I just love it.

Dave

[nomosendero]

In other words, forget about the original post, this is what YOU want to talk about.

[teddy12b]

I'm emotionally attached to any American company that produces a good product. Smith & Wesson, T\C, Ruger, Springfield. I'm emotionally attached to any company that is foreign produced. I won't, or try not to buy 'em.

FYI,
    On my Springfield XD 45acp it says made in Croatia, but you're emotionally attached to them and I don't want to upset you so I won't say anything.

    In a perfect world we could all buy american products and keep all our neighbors employed.  My TV is a Sony and my truck is a Chevy.  Do I honestly think that all the parts made in everything I buy are made in the U.S., no.  We live in a Global economy and it's changing everything. 

    ANYWAY SO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF THIS THREAD.......  I am very interested to see how the bergara barrels stack up against a good ole American product.  Then again they did get some help from Shilen right.  Isn't he American?

[R.W.Dale]

 So how bout you're microwave oven or that digital camera you used to take your atvar pic? I'm sorry you're stuck watching a 20yr old tv though. I really enjoy my 51" HD projection.

I'm emotionally attached

But hey I'm wastin my time arguein with someone blinded by EMOTION



 I'm interested in the bergara barrels as well, They appear to be just the ticket for a ML barrel for me seeing as it'll only be shot once or twice a year

[Keith L]

My only point was the poster said Dave had no right to an opinion.  He has every right to an opinion, even if you think it is half baked or down right wrong.

I am wondering how in Spain, with higher cost labor, socialized medicine, high taxes, one month vacation per year for everyone, and import duties they can use first rate materials and produce a lower cost product.  It will be interesting to see how these barrels do, and how they hold up.  My experience with inexpensive Spanish muzzleloaders was less than satisfying.  But lets see how these do.

[nomosendero]

Really now...What the heck does all these other gun manufactures have to do with a Bergera barrels. If you have never shot one...you don't know what your talking about...now do you..It doesn't matter i iota if you don't like Spanish guns or not..You really don't have a right to bad mouth a product just on your opinions...If you have first hand experience with them...then that changes things...If you don't..it's just a single opinion...

Rod...don't worry...I'll be shooting tomorrow afternoon..and I'll show him some of my groups..

Mac

Where does Mac say he has no right to an opinion? Looks to me like he says "you really don't have a right to bad mouth a product just on your opinions".   I would have to agree with that. It would be fine to say, in my opinion you won't get the quality with these barrels or something to that effect. I may state that I feel a certain car is junk as my OPINION, but not state it as a fact. Of course we can do that & I don't see where Mac says different.

The statement looks a little different when in proper context, doesn't it? Mac is a big boy & can take care of himself, but I believe he is out shooting today, like I should be.

[Keith L]

I understand.  It is ok to have an opinion as long as it is kept to yourself.  Thats enlightened.

[nomosendero]

Now that you mention it, it is more enlightened & certainly more logical to base decisions on facts & not JUST on opinions. 
Again in case you missed it, no one is saying that you can't express an opinion, but it would be better to say it is just that, just an opinion, instead of acting like it is a fact.  A thinking person can see this makes more sense in a forum such as this when someone with
an opinion only says things like the barrel is extruded when it isn't & has zero experience & has not even looked at one of these barrels.
If that is the way you base your decisions, fine & good luck to you.

[Keith L]

And you are missing my point.  I don't agree with Dave.  In fact I find his opinions and mine are nearly always opposed.  And I, like you, form my opinion by examining facts and data, not emotion.  But even if it is a foolish opinion he has a right to it, and to state it.  It is the obligation of the reader to determine if it is to be followed or not.  I react to anyone's statements about not having rights, when they clearly do, as opposite of what why we are here in America.  And the raids on civil liberties over the past few years make me more than somewhat defensive about it.

I suggest that we call this a draw.  I have no interest in continuing this conversation. 

Have a nice day.  I wish I could go shooting today as well, but we have heavy weather on the way.  Maybe tomorrow.  I have a used 7-30 Watters barrel that I have never shot, and it is calling me.

[Davemuzz]

Yeah, I'd like to shoot today, but I have family coming over so I can't. And tomorrow I have to take my daughter to the other side of the State, then I can't come back until Monday. Shootin won't happen until Tuesday at the earliest.

But, nomo got it right about me highjacking the post. Yup. I did that. However, I don't think he or TeddyB can get a real grasp on the issues that I was raising anyway. Economics is a difficult issue to grasp. Tough to understand. You know, Macro, Micro, Balance of trade, M-1 money supply, time period measurement....and heck, we didn't even talk about that stuff. I was just sayin a simple concept like "jobs". I dunno, maybe those guys are independently wealthy? Krochus has the Ostrich syndrom. You know, just stick your head in the sand and say "I dunno".

Well, I'm done with this lesson. You can't teach College level material to 4th grade level students. It just ain't gonna happen....no matter how many times you try. Conversation is over. At least my part is.


Dave

[nomosendero]

And you are missing my point.  I don't agree with Dave.  In fact I find his opinions and mine are nearly always opposed.  And I, like you, form my opinion by examining facts and data, not emotion.  But even if it is a foolish opinion he has a right to it, and to state it.  It is the obligation of the reader to determine if it is to be followed or not.  I react to anyone's statements about not having rights, when they clearly do, as opposite of what why we are here in America.  And the raids on civil liberties over the past few years make me more than somewhat defensive about it.

I suggest that we call this a draw.  I have no interest in continuing this conversation. 

Have a nice day.  I wish I could go shooting today as well, but we have heavy weather on the way.  Maybe tomorrow.  I have a used 7-30 Watters barrel that I have never shot, and it is calling me.

A draw it is. I know what you are saying, but I think we are looking at the statement in 2 different ways. Good luck with your  7-30!

[R.W.Dale]

"Krochus has the Ostrich syndrom. You know, just stick your head in the sand and say "I dunno"."

  Better than the "cranial inversion" you seem to suffer from. You never did answer my question about your microwave or camera?
  As for me I'm more worried about MY std of living a lot more than someone else's and when I can buy a product for less it's like I get a raise in pay.

"I'm emotionally attached"  Doesn't sound like the voice of LOGIC and REASON

just use this pic the next time you decide totally derail a thread in a vain effort to try to act S M art

[scratcherky]

Must be about time to lock this thread since it is so far off topic!

[Mac11700]

Well..if you want the thread locked..I'll just post my pictures of my 200 yard groups over on the CVA forum later..See...I don't have a problem with economics 101..with 4 years of collage and well over 45 years dealing with firearms..you know...shooting & reloading and such..I also remember full well my history lessons from school...those about a period of time called the protectionist years..There is always more to it than just jobs Dave..

Have a good 1 guys..

Mac